Jump to content
Billikens.com Message Board
Sign in to follow this  
Clocktoweraccords2004

Next year thoughts

Recommended Posts

The best team isn't necessarily the best set of individual players.  They have to complement each other.  Every year we see teams implode that have great talent but don't play well together. Virginia and Texas Tech were not the most talented teams in basketball this year but they did have each other's back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

You are delusional. What talent out there that we can get will play over French and Goodwin? We have no other forwards 

Reread my posts.  He dove off the deep end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Reread my posts.  He dove off the deep end.

He?

You literally called a team of Goodwin, Thatch, Hargrove, Yuri, Perkins and Lewis is a "mediocre local team"!!!!

Damn some on this board has gotten spoiled rotten with Ford. Please remember that before Ford, we havent had a top 100 or even a 4* player for years. Only one close was Ash from Villanova. 

I know you're not excited with that roster, but I for one think this a deeply underrated team. If the pieces go together, this team under the leadership of Goodwin and French with "#teamblue teammates like Hargrove and Thatch all in, we can have a super cohesive team next year. Only questionable piece is Perkins IMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

He?

You literally called a team of Goodwin, Thatch, Hargrove, Yuri, Perkins and Lewis is a "mediocre local team"!!!!

Damn some on this board has gotten spoiled rotten with Ford. Please remember that before Ford, we havent had a top 100 or even a 4* player for years. Only one close was Ash from Villanova. 

I know you're not excited with that roster, but I for one think this a deeply underrated team. If the pieces go together, this team under the leadership of Goodwin and French with "#teamblue teammates like Hargrove and Thatch all in, we can have a super cohesive team next year. Only questionable piece is Perkins IMO

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it.  I don't really care to re-explain this to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

In recruiting there are tradeoffs. 

 two freshmen over 2 juniors that stuck with this program after everything is a slap in the face. Doing stuff like that gives you a bad rep. Why do you think Marquette just lost 2 of the top 100 ncaa players? 

Wojo is gone after Howard leaves and is having difficulty recruiting after being a top 10 team this year. 

This attitude is literally what is collapsing Marquette right now 

As much as I want to disagree with you (I’m generally team “always recruit over everyone”), another component of the Hauser fiasco beyond the Sam/Markus feud apparently had to do with the recruitment of Tyler Hierro. He de-committed from Wisconsin and Wojo recruited him hard, much to the chagrin of the Hauser clan. Wound up at UK obviously, but that was the beginning of the end for the Hausers, if you will. 

That said, I think these kinds of problems can be ameliorated through honest discussions with your players. Communication is arguably the most important part of any relationship, and it seems like Wojo failed to communicate effectively with two of his most important players. Can’t lose the locker room like he did, ultimately it falls on him for not smoothing over the Sam/Markus issue and compounding that problem by recruiting a player (Hierro) that 1/6 of his locker room wanted nothing to do with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/16/2019 at 2:54 PM, wgstl said:

Also french and goodwin are on pace to be two of the top 3 players in our history, 

I love the passion, but “on pace” in the top 3 all time?  

No, not yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, ARon said:

I love the passion, but “on pace” in the top 3 all time?  

No, not yet.

not sure the concern.  At the half way point of a full 4 year career, they are on pace to finish in top 3 spots all across the board.  To me, if you finish top 3 in steals, points, and rebound, how are you not one of the best to wear the jersey?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You may not be on pace to be one the three best all time players when one of the actual top three is an all time Top 50 NBA player(McCauley.)

I don’t know Boushka, so I’ll skip both him and Ferry.

I saw both Harry Rogers and Bonner play, and I would give the slight edge to Rogers. He was a better offensive talent, and led his team as a MVC force.

I would slot Larry Hughes as the final top three player, even with his one cup of tea. He was a transcendent college player, and the best college swing guard on defense we will ever see at SLU.

Forget the stats. You have a college PF who led us to a NIT national championship. You have a  SF who led us to a MVC title. Finally, you have a PG who as a freshman led us to victories over multiple ranked teams and into the second round of the NCAA tourney.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-is this ranking strictly on what a player did at SLU or does it include other bball exploits?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the ranking strictly on stats, or who is the better basketball player is in college?

McCauley arguably is our best ever center, Rogers our best modern era forward, and Hughes our best guard ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, wgstl said:

not sure the concern.  At the half way point of a full 4 year career, they are on pace to finish in top 3 spots all across the board.  To me, if you finish top 3 in steals, points, and rebound, how are you not one of the best to wear the jersey?

There are a few issues with just looking at the top 3 all-time in stat categories and saying they are the best.  One issue is the amount of playing time those guys got to accumulate the stats.  Some older guys (Rogers, Wiley, etc.) weren't allow to play their freshman year so they only had 3 years to accumulate stats.  Larry Hughes jumped to the NBA after 1 year.  If you extrapolate his one year, he blows everyone else away.  Next, stats from different eras are hard to compare because of how the game as evolved.  Look at the rebounding numbers put up in the early years, lots of missed shots = way more rebounds.  Some players played on faster paced teams which meant it was easier to accumulate stats.  Finally, how do you value things that don't show up in the stats?  Someone like Bess was phenomenal defensively and as a team leader which aren't showing up on career stat lists.

I don't think it is a problem to say Goodwin & French will likely end of as "one of the best" that is nebulous and who knows how many "bests" you're talking about, but if you're saying "top 3" you're going to get an argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

You may not be on pace to be one the three best all time players when one of the actual top three is an all time Top 50 NBA player(McCauley.)

I don’t know Boushka, so I’ll skip both him and Ferry.

I saw both Harry Rogers and Bonner play, and I would give the slight edge to Rogers. He was a better offensive talent, and led his team as a MVC force.

I would slot Larry Hughes as the final top three player, even with his one cup of tea. He was a transcendent college player, and the best college swing guard on defense we will ever see at SLU.

Forget the stats. You have a college PF who led us to a NIT national championship. You have a  SF who led us to a MVC title. Finally, you have a PG who as a freshman led us to victories over multiple ranked teams and into the second round of the NCAA tourney.

 

I have been pontificating on this board for 5 years that Harry was one of the greatest Billiken's of all time. That he wasn't on the All Century team was a travesty. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Is the ranking strictly on stats, or who is the better basketball player is in college?

McCauley arguably is our best ever center, Rogers our best modern era forward, and Hughes our best guard ever.

im strictly talking record books.  but if a player dominates record books(obviously Larry wouldn't fit this) that player is one of the better players in program history. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

There are a few issues with just looking at the top 3 all-time in stat categories and saying they are the best.  One issue is the amount of playing time those guys got to accumulate the stats.  Some older guys (Rogers, Wiley, etc.) weren't allow to play their freshman year so they only had 3 years to accumulate stats.  Larry Hughes jumped to the NBA after 1 year.  If you extrapolate his one year, he blows everyone else away.  Next, stats from different eras are hard to compare because of how the game as evolved.  Look at the rebounding numbers put up in the early years, lots of missed shots = way more rebounds.  Some players played on faster paced teams which meant it was easier to accumulate stats.  Finally, how do you value things that don't show up in the stats?  Someone like Bess was phenomenal defensively and as a team leader which aren't showing up on career stat lists.

I don't think it is a problem to say Goodwin & French will likely end of as "one of the best" that is nebulous and who knows how many "bests" you're talking about, but if you're saying "top 3" you're going to get an argument.

My top 3, is the top 3 in the record books.  Im literally saying top 3 as in numerical order.  stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, wgstl said:

not sure the concern.  At the half way point of a full 4 year career, they are on pace to finish in top 3 spots all across the board.  To me, if you finish top 3 in steals, points, and rebound, how are you not one of the best to wear the jersey?

How are they on pace to finish in the top 3 in points? For 3rd they'd need 1881, 1973 for 1st   / French 633, Goodwin 677   

In rebounds they'd need to get to 1129 for 3rd 1425 for 1st/ French 530 , Goodwin 465   For 

and steals 175 for 3rd 193 for 1st/ French 59 , Goodwin 118

And we'll add Assists for 3rd 423 for 1st 437 / French 102, Goodwin 226

and Blocks for 3rd they will need 114 for 1st 136 / French 123, Goodwin 27

 

AB 1st in Pts, Reb, Steals. Lets just say neither will surpass AB. I'd also think they need to at least get in  the top 10 in pts. 

If Hasahn got in the top 10 in scoring, top 3 in rb, and should clearly be the blocks leader I'd guess you could make a case for top 5

If Goodwin can get in the top 10 in scoring he could end up #1 in assists and steals plus he's on pace to be top 5 in rebounds. I think a case could be made for top 3. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In MLBB they don’t count all star game, playoff, & WS stats in career totals but list them separately.  Don’t know about NBA or NFL.  Claggs didn’t have the NIT runs that Bonner, Gray, & Douglas had.  The first time I saw him was midnight madness as a frost.  He brought his team back to win with a series of jump shots & no defender could stop him.  I elbowed a friend & remarked that we could be looking at the future all time scoring leader at SLU.  His teams were too good & had short dancing runs. 🤔

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/1/2019 at 12:55 PM, willie said:

I have been pontificating on this board for 5 years that Harry was one of the greatest Billiken's of all time. That he wasn't on the All Century team was a travesty. 

Anyone who pontificates for five years about Harry Rogers gets an auto bid on my starting five of Billikens.com all-century posters... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Harry Rogers was the best Billiken player of the 1970s.

Easy Ed never made it on any stats list. He merely is our all time best player, hands down.

Larry Hughes played one season so he hasn’t a prayer to lead in any three/four year stats categories.

Our top three all time scorers are Bonner, Clagget, and Gray. Harry Rogers is #10 on the list. They scored 1972, 1910, 1880, and 1493 pts respectively, while playing in 133, 116, 129, and 81 varsity games. The only stats sheet I have of Rogers’ freshman year had him averaging 26 pts/game. That would put him at the top of the list.

Likewise, AB leads the alltime rebounds, witH Jerry Koch second and Jim McLaughlin third, but in per year average, it changes to Koch, McLaughlin, and Garry Garrison being the best all time.

Josh Fisher, Charles Newberry, and Jordair Jett lead in assists. H Waldman, AB, and Larry Hughes lead in steals.

There are all kinds of nuances that stats alone miss. Games played, postseason games, time played, era played, coach and system played, all skew judgements tremendously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is too bad.  When the played St Joe’s the Clippers scout, Paul Hewitt (who coached in the A10, GMU) was taking notes.  I could read “ Bess is not a .......” but could not see what else he wrote down.  I would take Bess for his work ethic,  and determination..... hopefully he ends up with a good team in G-league

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

unless you are a guaranteed 1st round pick, one is probably better off being a rookie free agent than getting drafted.   you and your agent could pick the situation that gives you the best chance to succeed.   

playing hurt the end of the conference season sure wrecked javon's perception by the pros it seems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too many freshmen getting drafted besides the few exceptions. 

So many get drafted based on potential, then go to G league and disappear overseas. 

There shouldn’t be doubts that Bess can perform at the NBA level. His defense is top and excels inside the arc. NBA team 3 point percentages are weak so it shouldn’t be as huge a factor for him 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...