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3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

Imo playing jimerson or hargrove or perkins as the second guard will likely result in a defensive problem.   

 

You are assuming  none of the guards i project will improve as shooters.   

I'm going with the other side of the equation.  I want as many shooters on the floor as possible.  I don't want to suffer through another 30% three point shooting season. This season's team was the worst long distance team since Spoon's 96-97 team. Let Coach figure out which one of his multiple defenses he wants to use to compensate for any deficiencies.  

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2 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I'm going with the other side of the equation.  I want as many shooters on the floor as possible.  I don't want to suffer through another 30% three point shooting season. This season's team was the worst long distance team since Spoon's 96-97 team. Let Coach figure out which one of his multiple defenses he wants to use to compensate for any deficiencies.  

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3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

Imo playing jimerson or hargrove or perkins as the second guard will likely result in a defensive problem.   

 

You are assuming  none of the guards i project will improve as shooters.   

Maybe you are right about them playing the 2.  I defer to you as you have seen Hargrove and Perkins play in person.  As to Jimerson, I have images of Scott Highmark in my mind - and have no idea if Jimerson's game is similar to Highmark's or not.  I will concede, though, that Highmark was many things - but a 2 guard was not one of them.  Defense is/has been the key to our success and having a defensive liability at the 2 wont' work.  Personally, I would like to H Waldman back as PG and Kevin Lisch as our sharpshooting 2.  Not reality, I get it.

At the same time, it does appear that 3 of our best players may soon be Jimerson, Hargrove and Perkins.  In an ideal world, each would play the 3 and each would play major minutes.  And if these are as good as advertised, and I have no reason to doubt that that they are, then at least 1 will need to play the 4 and move French to the 5 and/or play the 2 if want to get them major minutes.  If, for instance, 1 of these 3 would play the 4, would we lose more defensively with 1 of them at the 4 and French at the 5 than we would if 1 of them were to play the 2 and we kept French at the 4?  French would give his best - no doubt, but being the permanent 5 will be tough for him.

And no, I am not assuming that our 4 guards will not improve as shooters.  Just the opposite.  I am hopeful and expect that all 4 can and will improve.  Improve is one thing.  Break zones and force other teams to play us man to man like Kevin Lisch is different.   And as to Jacobs, I can honestly say that I have no idea if can really shoot it, though I can assume, because we were desperate for a sharpshooter all year and Ford did not play him much, that Jacobs is currently not a sharpshooter.  And again, I have not personally seen Yuri play (I defer to you and 3 Star) but 3 Star believes he will not start next year and may not start until his JR year due to both Goodwin and Yuri's current shooting skills.  And while I am hopeful that Thatch and Goodwin improve, and believe they will, I did watch them this year and other teams packed the lane when they played.

So you are predicting that our 4 guards will improve and zone defenses and packed lanes against us will be rare?

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31 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Maybe you are right about them playing the 2.  I defer to you as you have seen Hargrove and Perkins play in person.  As to Jimerson, I have images of Scott Highmark in my mind - and have no idea if Jimerson's game is similar to Highmark's or not.  I will concede, though, that Highmark was many things - but a 2 guard was not one of them.  Defense is/has been the key to our success and having a defensive liability at the 2 wont' work.  Personally, I would like to H Waldman back as PG and Kevin Lisch as our sharpshooting 2.  Not reality, I get it.

At the same time, it does appear that 3 of our best players may soon be Jimerson, Hargrove and Perkins.  In an ideal world, each would play the 3 and each would play major minutes.  And if these are as good as advertised, and I have no reason to doubt that that they are, then at least 1 will need to play the 4 and move French to the 5 and/or play the 2 if want to get them major minutes.  If, for instance, 1 of these 3 would play the 4, would we lose more defensively with 1 of them at the 4 and French at the 5 than we would if 1 of them were to play the 2 and we kept French at the 4?  French would give his best - no doubt, but being the permanent 5 will be tough for him.

And no, I am not assuming that our 4 guards will not improve as shooters.  Just the opposite.  I am hopeful and expect that all 4 can and will improve.  Improve is one thing.  Break zones and force other teams to play us man to man like Kevin Lisch is different.   And as to Jacobs, I can honestly say that I have no idea if can really shoot it, though I can assume, because we were desperate for a sharpshooter all year and Ford did not play him much, that Jacobs is currently not a sharpshooter.  And again, I have not personally seen Yuri play (I defer to you and 3 Star) but 3 Star believes he will not start next year and may not start until his JR year due to both Goodwin and Yuri's current shooting skills.  And while I am hopeful that Thatch and Goodwin improve, and believe they will, I did watch them this year and other teams packed the lane when they played.

So you are predicting that our 4 guards will improve and zone defenses and packed lanes against us will be rare?

Agreed....those most ready for minutes based on a combo of their skills and this team’s needs appear to be JGood, French, Thatch, Perkins, Hargrove and Jimerson.

Betting on one or two big men to join this list. Also think Bell could be a factor late next season at the 5....

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9 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Maybe you are right about them playing the 2.  I defer to you as you have seen Hargrove and Perkins play in person.  As to Jimerson, I have images of Scott Highmark in my mind - and have no idea if Jimerson's game is similar to Highmark's or not.  I will concede, though, that Highmark was many things - but a 2 guard was not one of them.  Defense is/has been the key to our success and having a defensive liability at the 2 wont' work.  Personally, I would like to H Waldman back as PG and Kevin Lisch as our sharpshooting 2.  Not reality, I get it.

At the same time, it does appear that 3 of our best players may soon be Jimerson, Hargrove and Perkins.  In an ideal world, each would play the 3 and each would play major minutes.  And if these are as good as advertised, and I have no reason to doubt that that they are, then at least 1 will need to play the 4 and move French to the 5 and/or play the 2 if want to get them major minutes.  If, for instance, 1 of these 3 would play the 4, would we lose more defensively with 1 of them at the 4 and French at the 5 than we would if 1 of them were to play the 2 and we kept French at the 4?  French would give his best - no doubt, but being the permanent 5 will be tough for him.

And no, I am not assuming that our 4 guards will not improve as shooters.  Just the opposite.  I am hopeful and expect that all 4 can and will improve.  Improve is one thing.  Break zones and force other teams to play us man to man like Kevin Lisch is different.   And as to Jacobs, I can honestly say that I have no idea if can really shoot it, though I can assume, because we were desperate for a sharpshooter all year and Ford did not play him much, that Jacobs is currently not a sharpshooter.  And again, I have not personally seen Yuri play (I defer to you and 3 Star) but 3 Star believes he will not start next year and may not start until his JR year due to both Goodwin and Yuri's current shooting skills.  And while I am hopeful that Thatch and Goodwin improve, and believe they will, I did watch them this year and other teams packed the lane when they played.

So you are predicting that our 4 guards will improve and zone defenses and packed lanes against us will be rare?

BS, about Collins, I think he is starting with in 10 games next year. We just got blown out by VT, not because of our shooting, but because we didn’t have anyone who could handle the ball and make plays. It’s amazing how much better shooters become when they get the ball in the right spot and time. 

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50 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

BS, about Collins, I think he is starting with in 10 games next year. We just got blown out by VT, not because of our shooting, but because we didn’t have anyone who could handle the ball and make plays. It’s amazing how much better shooters become when they get the ball in the right spot and time. 

I think so too. If Yuri's as good as advertised Ford has to see the advantages of playing a pure pass first PG. We really haven't had one since Kwamain graduated. That leaves a crowd at the 2-3 position. Unless we come up with another ready big, we will have to play 4 Guard Nova style. I don't think that's a bad way to go because, as I understand it, Hargrove is as tall as French and can sky. He could play the 4. Plus you have JGood at the 2 or 3 who rebounds w/ the best of them. I can't see a big fall off in rebounds. 

Our offense was painful to watch this year. For the most part we had no perimeter game until Bess came alive then Isabell. But we didn't get them both at their peak because of Bess' injury. Couple that w/ poor FT shooting, add in too many misses on fast breaks, and it's easy to see how we had trouble getting to 70 Pts in most games. 

Jimmerson has me excited. We need a sniper in the worst way, because it opens up the inside for French, Hargrove, JGood , and Thatch. I hope Perkins can hit the 3 as well. JGood and Thatch need to work on their shooting this summer. Get Hankton and Jacobs bulked up. Hankton does seem to have a good stroke, so he could be a factor as a stretch PF. Jacobs could back up Yuri or even vice a versa. 

The pieces appear to be there for a marked improvement and more options on offense. However, there's a lot of inexperience that needs to be over come prior to conference play. 

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1 hour ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

BS, about Collins, I think he is starting with in 10 games next year. We just got blown out by VT, not because of our shooting, but because we didn’t have anyone who could handle the ball and make plays. It’s amazing how much better shooters become when they get the ball in the right spot and time. 

So we only made like two 3 ptrs when we were getting beat up.  In fact it was a guard that had key TOs early.  If we could have dropped a few 3s we may have kept it close enough to actually get back into the game other than trail by 10.

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6 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

So we only made like two 3 ptrs when we were getting beat up.  In fact it was a guard that had key TOs early.  If we could have dropped a few 3s we may have kept it close enough to actually get back into the game other than trail by 10.

The problem with the VTech and Fla State defenses had more to do with five guys from SLU being completely covered and not getting open vs. a point guard, particularly a freshman point guard. SLU wasn’t used to that level of execution and talent.

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1 hour ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

BS, about Collins, I think he is starting with in 10 games next year. We just got blown out by VT, not because of our shooting, but because we didn’t have anyone who could handle the ball and make plays. It’s amazing how much better shooters become when they get the ball in the right spot and time. 

It's not one or the other, it's both.  We didn't have a floor general AND we didn't have enough players on the floor who are viable shooting threats.  Playing Yuri 30 minutes a game isn't going to suddenly make mediocre shooters into good shooters.  One of the guards projected to start next year, either Goodwin or Thatch, has to improve that aspect of the game on their own.  Where Collins will help the most in his freshman year is getting us a couple more layups a game through his passing.

Our ballhandling and shooting problems didn't just start and it's OK if it takes some time to fix.  What's important is that our most talented freshmen get enough time on the floor to form chemistry with our returning players. 

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27 minutes ago, VeniceMenace said:

The problem with the VTech and Fla State defenses had more to do with five guys from SLU being completely covered and not getting open vs. a point guard, particularly a freshman point guard. SLU wasn’t used to that level of execution and talent.

We can beat George Mason or Rhode Island without a guard adept at breaking down his man and drawing a second defender.  You can't beat a top 15 team without one.  And I agree, a freshman point guard wasn't going to be enough.  You need senior Jordair Jett or his equivalent.

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23 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Three pretty good freshmen Point Guards in the A10 this year include Honor, Carry and Lofton.  It can be done with a freshman PG.

Those guys are twofers.  They can handle the ball but they're also respectable outside shooters.  You don't have to guard Yuri outside of 15 feet at this time.

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2 hours ago, VeniceMenace said:

The problem with the VTech and Fla State defenses had more to do with five guys from SLU being completely covered and not getting open vs. a point guard, particularly a freshman point guard. SLU wasn’t used to that level of execution and talent.

Our loss was a result of many things ultimately but to say that had we shot better - which the poster I responded to said - would have not made a difference is just not accurate.

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3 hours ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

BS, about Collins, I think he is starting with in 10 games next year. We just got blown out by VT, not because of our shooting, but because we didn’t have anyone who could handle the ball and make plays. It’s amazing how much better shooters become when they get the ball in the right spot and time. 

Well BS back to you. 

Again, I haven’t seen Yuri play and I suspect you haven’t either. But dont let that get in your way.  Don’t believe guys like 3 Star who knows Yuri likely best. 

And not sure what game you (or season u are referring to) but let’s talke about the SLU v VT game.  We shot 17%(4 of 23)  from 3 compared to their 40% (4 of 10).  Isaiah Thomas (insert your favorite PG) here could have been on the floor for us and we dont make many more 3’s.  Not amazing . And don't forget we shot 36% from the field compare to their >40% and also our poor FT %. 

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28 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Our loss was a result of many things ultimately but to say that had we shot better - which the poster I responded to said - would have not made a difference is just not accurate.

Agreed...likely still down by halftime but not by nearly as much...

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The va tech loss was a combo of turnovers and poor shooting. the first half turnovers put us in too big a hole. to's gave us less shots and them more. i agree with bbf. a true point guard makes a huge difference more shots better shots etc.  yuri will play a lot next year

 

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55 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Those guys are twofers.  They can handle the ball but they're also respectable outside shooters.  You don't have to guard Yuri outside of 15 feet at this time.

Yuri appears to have a stroke already- look at his ft % & he has a pull-up shot inside the circle.  A 3 stroke is repetition & he has 6 mos to practice it.  With his work ethic I expect a decent 3 %.  Time will tell.

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1 minute ago, Major Majerus said:

Yuri appears to have a stroke already- look at his ft % & he has a pull-up shot inside the circle.  A 3 stroke is repetition & he has 6 mos to practice it.  With his work ethic I expect a decent 3 %.  Time will tell.

It took Yuri a couple of years of living in the gym just to get to this point.  I'm hopeful that he can become a respectable 3 point shooter but I'm not going to put a time limit on it.

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Just now, 3star_recruit said:

It took Yuri a couple of years of living in the gym just to get to this point.  I'm hopeful that he can become a respectable 3 point shooter but I'm not going to put a time limit on it.

3 Star. Give it up. You are posting to a brick wall. These guys have made up their minds.  We will lead the league next year in 3 point shooting if only we work hard this summer. Expectations again are headed to unreasonable levels.  Only question for next year will be - who will they blame for unmet expectations?

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1 minute ago, Clock_Tower said:

3 Star. Give it up. You are posting to a brick wall. These guys have made up their minds.  We will lead the league next year in 3 point shooting if only we work hard this summer. Expectations again are headed to unreasonable levels.  Only question for next year will be - who will they blame for unmet expectations?

Hey Debbie Downer,stop pricking my balloon. Let it play out. 

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No one more optimistic than me. Sorry if I ask if opinions are based upon personal  observations. Now see that is not proper?  No worry about unreasonable expectations of guys still in high school. Got it. Just drink the blue koolaid and dont ask questions?  Got it  

 

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

Well BS back to you. 

Again, I haven’t seen Yuri play and I suspect you haven’t either. But dont let that get in your way.  Don’t believe guys like 3 Star who knows Yuri likely best. 

And not sure what game you (or season u are referring to) but let’s talke about the SLU v VT game.  We shot 17%(4 of 23)  from 3 compared to their 40% (4 of 10).  Isaiah Thomas (insert your favorite PG) here could have been on the floor for us and we dont make many more 3’s.  Not amazing . And don't forget we shot 36% from the field compare to their >40% and also our poor FT %. 

I have seen him play several times, St Mary’s had most of their games on line if you cared to watch. Not denying that our shooting need improvement, but there is more to scoring than having a good shot. Heck, our two point shooting percentage was not good either. Having a guard who can penetrate and find the open man does wonders for shooting percentages. Collins by the way is a very good ft shooter. I’m excited about all of our players, it seems like the one who isn’t is you. Collins is the type of players who will make the others on the court better.

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22 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

3 Star. Give it up. You are posting to a brick wall. These guys have made up their minds.  We will lead the league next year in 3 point shooting if only we work hard this summer. Expectations again are headed to unreasonable levels.  Only question for next year will be - who will they blame for unmet expectations?

Expectations in this blog always head up to unreasonable levels after the end of a season. The operational word here is unreasonable. Of course, by the end of the summer some or many expect the team to rank in the top of the nation (this is a fantasy, not reality). This leads to the following consequences: 1. Fury when someone says that the high expectations exist are fantasy, not reality, and resulting in calling whoever is pointing this out a "troll". 2. Even if the team improves to a significant extent in any given year and achieves more than the prior year, high expectations people will still be frustrated and resentful because their personal expectations were not met. Of course, all of this is due to faulty internal emotional thinking, aggrandizing expectations for the team, which brings a lot of people down hard after expectations are not met once again. Then the frustration and fury due to being wrong once more is expressed by finding a scapegoat to put the blame on. There is no scapegoat to be found, the problem rests in inflated expectations, not on someone else.

Please understand this: recurrent episodes of excessive expectations followed by severe let downs and scapegoat hunting, can be considered pathological depending on the degree of the highs and the lows suffered in a regular basis. If these highs and lows are severe enough to disrupt your daily life, you should consult a psychiatrist.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

3 Star. Give it up. You are posting to a brick wall. These guys have made up their minds.  We will lead the league next year in 3 point shooting if only we work hard this summer. Expectations again are headed to unreasonable levels.  Only question for next year will be - who will they blame for unmet expectations?

Right now I only see Jimerson as a 3 pt shooter. And he's got to prove it at the next level, so I'm not figuring we'll be lights out from 3 land. That said, if we don't improve from beyond the arc we're right back to this year w/ our offense and counting heavily on our D to win games. One would hope if guys put in the effort to improve their 3 point shot we'll see some results. When you're pretty much starting at rock bottom it doesn't take much to show improvement. 

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