Grad Transfers - 2019

[dennis_w]

Grad transfers are here to stay and if coach ford finds one that will help there is no reason to leave spots open. if the gt is better than who we have then we might win more games. if jacobs steps up the gt is on the bench, we should look to win every year and not write one off as a rebuild

 

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, Littlebill said:

So sign a medicore frosh and have to hold that scholarship for four years? That's not a better option.

first, call me suspicious, but there is likely a reason the graduate transfer is leaving.   more times than not, there is possibly an underlying problem.   i am just a big believer of team chemisty.   

i am not in favor of giving a scholarship just to fill a spot i.e. your statement "so sign a mediocre frosh".   if they arent seen as at least a long term answer, then no they shouldnt be signed. 

and i am not against all graduate transfers.   i just think the signing of such needs to be judicious and seen as a good fit.   no doubt in theory the correct use of such works out great for that unexpected hole while we wait for the following class of potential recruits to sign. 

  while at the end of the season,  the risk of isabell was definitely deemed a success by most, you have to admit, just a couple of weeks before the majority of us were strongly questioning isabell.  and yes it is good that he was a billiken as we dont win that tourney without him.     

 

[Old guy]

Now, lets explore the possibility that Ford will decide not to get anyone else into the team and leave it as is, with  two open scholarships or two scholarships going to walk ons for a year. This is an assumption just to  analyze what the consequences of such an action might be. This does NOT mean that I do not agree we should fill the two available scholarships, it means this is an interesting possibility that can take some preliminary analysis at this time.

So, what happens if this is the case.

1. We have a team with 11 players, 5 of which  are returning from last year (two of which played little last year), and 6 new players. If Ford chooses, he may give scholarships to two of the walk ons, which will de facto be walk ons with scholarships for a year. These two kids would be there for emergency use primarily. Hopefully, they will not be required to play a lot.

2. As it stands now, the main job ahead will  be the integration of the new 6 players into the team and also bringing up the two return players up to speed, if such is possible. This is likely to take a fair amount of effort in my mind.

3. Injuries, we know we have an injured recruit which appears to be functional with a brace. We also have two returning players that played little last season because of injuries. It remains to be seen how much healing has occurred with Jacobs' and Hankton's injuries. In a worst case scenario, the injuries plaguing these three recur and cause them to  be benched for most of the season. This would leave us with 8 players and a replay of last year. However, it is a bit extreme to assume that none of these players will be able to play regularly this season. How good and effective they will be is entirely a different matter. It is not unlikely that 1 player out of the three will be unable to play regularly because of injuries. That will decrease our workable team to 10 which is likely to be doable. The more injuries we have that keep a player from playing the worse the situation will be. This is a very valid reason for desiring to fill the two open scholarships this summer.

4. Is it really likely that we will have problems this year similar to situation 2. This depends, we do not have swordplayers this year (or none that we are aware of) acting like McBroom. Hopefully the saltpeter food supplement program for athletes is working adequately... In all this could happen, and it would be a disaster, as situation 2 was, but it is not very likely to happen, not as far as it appears at this time, no new McBrooms in the team or so it looks like.

5. Departures due to players causing disturbances in the team. Again we do not know of any obvious head cases in the team, at least not at this time. Could it happen, I do not think it is likely but who knows.

6 . Players that cannot play or that do not fit the team. This can also happen but I think it is less likely.

Therefore, as far as this analysis goes, the real danger in the present situation of the team (missing two scholarship players) appears to  be injuries. That said I would like to see at least one of the two scholarships available being awarded to a new recruit, Ford's choice, as additional insurance against the effect of the injuries we know about at this  time (you can never predict who is likely to be injured de novo during the season).

I am sure Ford is going through scenarios like this as he evaluates his players and whatever possible recruits are still available out there.

 

 

[Sheltiedave]

Roy, the problem with Isabell was trying to learn the PG position while trying to exist with Gordon. It was not going to work well, and the expirement failed.

Isabell and the other guards/forwards all found better spacing and fills when Gordon departed. Ford’s style works best with off the ball movement toward vacated areas, and we need heady players who can take advantage of this. 

[dennis_w]

17 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Now, lets explore the possibility that Ford will decide not to get anyone else into the team and leave it as is, with  two open scholarships or two scholarships going to walk ons for a year. This is an assumption just to  analyze what the consequences of such an action might be. This does NOT mean that I do not agree we should fill the two available scholarships, it means this is an interesting possibility that can take some preliminary analysis at this time.

So, what happens if this is the case.

1. We have a team with 11 players, 5 of which  are returning from last year (two of which played little last year), and 6 new players. If Ford chooses, he may give scholarships to two of the walk ons, which will de facto be walk ons with scholarships for a year. These two kids would be there for emergency use primarily. Hopefully, they will not be required to play a lot.

2. As it stands now, the main job ahead will  be the integration of the new 6 players into the team and also bringing up the two return players up to speed, if such is possible. This is likely to take a fair amount of effort in my mind.

3. Injuries, we know we have an injured recruit which appears to be functional with a brace. We also have two returning players that played little last season because of injuries. It remains to be seen how much healing has occurred with Jacobs' and Hankton's injuries. In a worst case scenario, the injuries plaguing these three recur and cause them to  be benched for most of the season. This would leave us with 8 players and a replay of last year. However, it is a bit extreme to assume that none of these players will be able to play regularly this season. How good and effective they will be is entirely a different matter. It is not unlikely that 1 player out of the three will be unable to play regularly because of injuries. That will decrease our workable team to 10 which is likely to be doable. The more injuries we have that keep a player from playing the worse the situation will be. This is a very valid reason for desiring to fill the two open scholarships this summer.

4. Is it really likely that we will have problems this year similar to situation 2. This depends, we do not have swordplayers this year (or none that we are aware of) acting like McBroom. Hopefully the saltpeter food supplement program for athletes is working adequately... In all this could happen, and it would be a disaster, as situation 2 was, but it is not very likely to happen, not as far as it appears at this time, no new McBrooms in the team or so it looks like.

5. Departures due to players causing disturbances in the team. Again we do not know of any obvious head cases in the team, at least not at this time. Could it happen, I do not think it is likely but who knows.

6 . Players that cannot play or that do not fit the team. This can also happen but I think it is less likely.

Therefore, as far as this analysis goes, the real danger in the present situation of the team (missing two scholarship players) appears to  be injuries. That said I would like to see at least one of the two scholarships available being awarded to a new recruit, Ford's choice, as additional insurance against the effect of the injuries we know about at this  time (you can never predict who is likely to be injured de novo during the season).

I am sure Ford is going through scenarios like this as he evaluates his players and whatever possible recruits are still available out there.

 

 

exactly, u can get to a short bench very fast, outside of collins and jacobs both unproven the guard roster is thin. an injury there and a walk on might be playing

[Sheltiedave]

Collins has shoulder surgery going into his hs senior year. Goodwin had shoulder surgery after his hs jr year. Hankton, Jacobs, the new fr center, Wiley, Isabell, Thatch, Foreman, and our mvp all had injuries and missed games, or suffered a decline in performance.

Playing Pollyanna and not being prepared to absorb injuries due to an exceedingly short bench, by carrying multiple freshmen and multiple open ships, is foolish. Equally foolish is filling ships with dead end no star fresh.

[Pistol]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

first, call me suspicious, but there is likely a reason the graduate transfer is leaving.   more times than not, there is possibly an underlying problem.   i am just a big believer of team chemisty.   

i am not in favor of giving a scholarship just to fill a spot i.e. your statement "so sign a mediocre frosh".   if they arent seen as at least a long term answer, then no they shouldnt be signed. 

and i am not against all graduate transfers.   i just think the signing of such needs to be judicious and seen as a good fit.   no doubt in theory the correct use of such works out great for that unexpected hole while we wait for the following class of potential recruits to sign. 

  while at the end of the season,  the risk of isabell was definitely deemed a success by most, you have to admit, just a couple of weeks before the majority of us were strongly questioning isabell.  and yes it is good that he was a billiken as we dont win that tourney without him.     

I agree. No need to mess with that #TeamBlue chemistry.

That said, in my research on Weaver yesterday, I couldn't find any red flags that would indicate a character problem, academic issues, etc. In fact, after one of his season-ending injuries, his coach said: "To say that Tay is the heart, soul and fabric of this team is an understatement. We are heartbroken, because we know that if anyone deserves to be back on that court playing, it’s Tay. He had worked so hard to come back from last year’s injury....When Tay’s out there, everyone else elevates their defensive intensity because they see how hard he works. He’s definitely the head of the snake when it comes to our defense....Tay will still have a valuable role on the team. He’ll always have a smile on his face, he’ll lead by example and his impact on this team will be felt even more. As difficult as this is for Tay and his family, I’m confident there is a silver lining in the end."

[almaman]

2 hours ago, ACE said:

. Even Kentucky, who used to rely mostly on the one and dones, is increasingly pursuing grad transfers. I

GTs are one and done too at least at the school to which they've transferred .

[Clock_Tower]

31 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Collins has shoulder surgery going into his hs senior year. Goodwin had shoulder surgery after his hs jr year. Hankton, Jacobs, the new fr center, Wiley, Isabell, Thatch, Foreman, and our mvp all had injuries and missed games, or suffered a decline in performance.

Playing Pollyanna and not being prepared to absorb injuries due to an exceedingly short bench, by carrying multiple freshmen and multiple open ships, is foolish. Equally foolish is filling ships with dead end no star fresh.

Not sure anyone on this Board has been (or remains) opposed to us landing GT help (1 or 2 guys) who can help out French and play with their back to the basket.   But landing a 5'10" guard?   Why?   I would rather see Goodwin and Yuri than any 5'10" GT PG.

 

[TheChosenOne]

2 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

Roy, the problem with Isabell was trying to learn the PG position while trying to exist with Gordon. It was not going to work well, and the expirement failed.

Isabell and the other guards/forwards all found better spacing and fills when Gordon departed. Ford’s style works best with off the ball movement toward vacated areas, and we need heady players who can take advantage of this. 

Would you have said the same absent a comeback to beat Richmond in the conference tournament?

I think the problem was we tried to make Isabell something he is not and he didn't really have success until Bess was hurt and it kind of became his show, so he could be the ball dominating (not meant in a negative way) scorer from the lead guard position. I kind of feared that he would want to be that from the jump and thought it would be detrimental to the team, but it ended up being just what we needed since our offense was often such a struggle and we were so depleted. So he could be the "star" on offense while the other guys could attack the rim and the offensive glass and it worked for a week in Brooklyn (and individually for Isabell the 2nd half of the conference season and into March).

[3star_recruit]

7 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Not sure anyone on this Board has been (or remains) opposed to us landing GT help (1 or 2 guys) who can help out French and play with their back to the basket.   But landing a 5'10" guard?   Why?   I would rather see Goodwin and Yuri than any 5'10" GT PG.

 

He's a shooter. As far as I can tell he would be insurance in case Jimerson gets hurt.

[mdscott24]

This one is a no brainer at this point. At worst everyone is healthy and good as advertised and he is used very little - you lose nothing. At best he gives you 10-15 minutes off the bench of steady guard play, hits a 3 or two, and contributes. Either way the future is not effected.

 

[Sheltiedave]

I would as well, Court, but having three PGs on the team is good insurance. I view Goodwin as an off guard, and I would rather he be able to expend more energy getting boards than ball handling.

plus I have seen Tay for three games, and he is a solid jump shooting 3 pt specialist and a high motor bulldog on defense in what I saw. We have lost our best on ball defender, and Lord knows we have witnessed what happens to our 3 pt shooters. Last year was another painful reminder that SLU and zones don’t mix.

i don’t know about anyone else, but I have dreams that we have two players who can shoot us out of any zone thrown at us. A one year

[billiken_roy]

52 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Collins has shoulder surgery going into his hs senior year. Goodwin had shoulder surgery after his hs jr year. Hankton, Jacobs, the new fr center, Wiley, Isabell, Thatch, Foreman, and our mvp all had injuries and missed games, or suffered a decline in performance.

Playing Pollyanna and not being prepared to absorb injuries due to an exceedingly short bench, by carrying multiple freshmen and multiple open ships, is foolish. Equally foolish is filling ships with dead end no star fresh.

Actually goodwin played his senior season until January, broke kevin lisch's high school records THEN had shoulder surgery.

[TheChosenOne]

1 minute ago, Sheltiedave said:

I would as well, Court, but having three PGs on the team is good insurance. I view Goodwin as an off guard, and I would rather he be able to expend more energy getting boards than ball handling.

plus I have seen Tay for three games, and he is a solid jump shooting 3 pt specialist and a high motor bulldog on defense in what I saw. We have lost our best on ball defender, and Lord knows we have witnessed what happens to our 3 pt shooters. Last year was another painful reminder that SLU and zones don’t mix.

On paper what you describe seems like such a good fit and doesn't seem to overly cut into minutes for guys I assume many would want to get minutes for. We don't have many combo guards that can truly be that 1/2, so I would certainly take that for 1 season as we hope for some development from younger guys. The key for me is that this kid seemingly played the role we want him to play (maybe reduced minutes) at Eastern Kentucky, primarily a 3 point shooter who also facilitated some offense and is apparently a strong defensive player who might more logically guard opposing point guards (I haven't seen the kid, so I am assuming that to be the case). I'm all for this one.

[Sheltiedave]

I also think that Travis has a certain level of comfort getting transfers out of Kentucky, where his dad and thirty years of close friends and coaches can give him vetted insights about a player’s character and ability. Offering at this stage means he recognizes the need, even if it only is an insurance policy. 

[3star_recruit]

Today's fun fact:

Before Coach Ford took them to the dance in 2005, Eastern Kentucky had not received an NCAA bid in 26 years.

[juniorbill76]

I have confidence that Coach Ford has a rabbit up his sleeve and will pull a card out of his hat on the grad transfer front, surprising and delighting us all.

[CBFan]

18 minutes ago, juniorbill76 said:

I have confidence that Coach Ford has a rabbit up his sleeve and will pull a card out of his hat on the grad transfer front, surprising and delighting us all.

The coach is a magician, he has a history of doing this.

[Cincybill]

If this guy comes, either him or Goodwin will be the starting PG leaning towards him IMO. 

[Old guy]

Whatever Ford decides is good for the team is OK with me. I will not waste time worrying or second guessing him.

[brianstl]

12 minutes ago, Cincybill said:

If this guy comes, either him or Goodwin will be the starting PG leaning towards him IMO. 

Here is the thing with adding this kid to the mix...........  If the two freshman bigs can't log major minutes this season, that means we will have to play a lot of small ball.  That most likely means Goodwin getting significant time at the four.  If that happens with the roster we have now, we will be thin at the PG spot.  Tay can step in and play the lead guard spot. That means you don't have to overexpose Collins at 30+ mpg as he is still trying to develop his shot.

[WVBilliken]

18 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Whatever Ford decides is good for the team is OK with me. I will not waste time worrying or second guessing him.

Best comment of the day.  I think Ford and his coaches know what is best for the team and program. 

My opinion is fill those last two spots with one year players.   Could really use a big and a shooter.....but damn, I am just a poster, what do I know?

[AGB91]

Maybe the new assistant coach is bringing in someone.

I trust Travis.

[TheChosenOne]

Regarding Weaver, on the Tweet listing schools who have offered (which included Arizona) I saw some responses saying that Arizona is already oversigned and had to push a kid out the other day.

I found this from I assume an Arizona fan message board (http://playersprogramu.com/arizona-wildcats-basketball-recruiting/arizona-has-no-scholarships-just-offered-2019-grad-transfer-pg-tay-weaver/)

Arizona has NO scholarships & just offered 2019 grad transfer PG Tay Weaver. Will know more soon.

Weaver is a 5'10 PG who averaged 10pts a game and shot 35% from 3 point land. He would be a good back up in an area of need for this coming season. He will most likely accept our offer and be added to the team shortly.