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Taj79

Jordan Goodwin Needs Tons of Work

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31 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

 And its him, French and Thatch coming back and without tons of work over this summer and next preseason, he ---and we --- won't advance from the current middle of the road team we currently have become.  

 

Taj when you have 5 returning players 2 of which have not played or improved much this season and 8 incoming new players. The 3 returning guys that have been carrying the load have to be the least of your concerns. I know we have good recruits but they will have to be worked hard to blend in. Hankton and Jacobs need lots of work. I think Goodwin, French and Thatch will either decide to do the work themselves or not but I do not think the coaches are going to be spending a lot of time on them..

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4 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Taj when you have 5 returning players 2 of which have not played or improved much this season and 8 incoming new players. The 3 returning guys that have been carrying the load have to be the least of your concerns. I know we have good recruits but they will have to be worked hard to blend in. Hankton and Jacobs need lots of work. I think Goodwin, French and Thatch will either decide to do the work themselves or not but I do not think the coaches are going to be spending a lot of time on them..

I can't agree with your last sentence.  The coaching staff will put in a lot of skills- and player-development work with all of the players, including Goodwin, French, and Thatch.  And they'll also have to put in plenty of individual work, as well.  That's what contributes to a "Conklin summer."

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9 hours ago, Old guy said:

 I think Goodwin, French and Thatch will either decide to do the work themselves or not but I do not think the coaches are going to be spending a lot of time on them..

The NCAA scripts how much time coaches can spend with players over the summer. The staff will use every minute available on the returning and incoming players. There are zero reasons why they would not.

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45 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I can't agree with your last sentence.  The coaching staff will put in a lot of skills- and player-development work with all of the players, including Goodwin, French, and Thatch.  And they'll also have to put in plenty of individual work, as well.  That's what contributes to a "Conklin summer."

And I pray and hope you are correct in this regard. I really look forward to a Conklin summer for Goodwin, French, and Thatch.

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-imo we should be applauding like maniacs for JGood every time he puts on the Billiken uniform as from all I have seen he got a terrible 'verdict' from the U and yet he returned, could have easily taken a different path, didn't, here's to you, JGood!!!

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7 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-imo we should be applauding like maniacs for JGood every time he puts on the Billiken uniform as from all I have seen he got a terrible 'verdict' from the U and yet he returned, could have easily taken a different path, didn't, here's to you, JGood!!!

Second that! 

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16 hours ago, brianstl said:

If Goodwin shot free throws at an average rate we are talking about him increasing his scoring average by less than a point per game.

At the same time, if he shot at 70% from FT and averaged the point more a game, this thread may not happen. 

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My other favorite part about this thread is that barring horrible injury or transfer, he should finish top 6 in in points scored, 1st in steals,  top 4 in rebounds,  top 4 in minutes played, and 1st in assists

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2 hours ago, wgstl said:

My other favorite part about this thread is that barring horrible injury or transfer, he should finish top 6 in in points scored, 1st in steals,  top 4 in rebounds,  top 4 in minutes played, and 1st in assists

And it's possible for him to do all of those things without making a single all-conference team. He's a very unique talent.

Doesn't change the fact that if someone doesn't step up as a scorer the next 2 years, we're not dancing. Since Goodwin was the most heralded recruit and he has the ball more than anyone else, all eyes are on him. Not saying I agree with it, but I do understand it.

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12 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Anybody want to disagree that Javon Bess' shot needed tons of work?  And what did that kid do?   Recognized it.  Went into the gym.  At 6 am.  Put up thousands of shots.  Made himself our most reliable distance shooter.  First team all conference.  Defensive POY.  I think even he said defense is internal desire.  Rodman used to talk about rebounding being wanting it more.  Wilt said "I'm going to average 50" and then went out and did it.  To me, that's 'tons' of work.  You can't really teach hustle and desire.  Goodwin has that.  The best player on our returning roster?  Arguably yes.  But shooting is a skill set that only comes with tons of work.  Especially if you're not a natural at it and from what Jordan has shown to date, he's not that.  And I don't think a kid of that character would see himself as a sacred cow devoid of criticism.  We're damn lucky to have him.  But the next level ---- for him, for us, for the team ---- is going to be achieved only through his efforts to improve in his offensive game and role.  

And its him, French and Thatch coming back and without tons of work over this summer and next preseason, he ---and we --- won't advance from the current middle of the road team we currently have become.  

 

I mentioned a while back that Goodwin needs a Bess summer and that he has not lived up to pre-season all-conference predictions - outside of a couple blind loyalists, I think most people on the board get that.  This topic doesn't need its own thread and especially the ridiculous title. As others have pointed out, we should be thankful that JG is at SLU and has stuck through adversity. Now, that doesn't mean he or any player is above criticism, BUT this thread is over the top and pointless. No reason to beat a dead horse.

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Look, I got five pages of discussion going on here and it's likely approaching its end.  Or maybe it goes on.  There is hardly anyone who has a point/counterpoint that I disagree vehemently with.  Did I single out Jordan Goodwin?  Yes I did.  Why? Because this is his team going forward and we only go as far as he takes us.  Yes, French and Thatch and a whole bunch of unknowns (heavy, heavy on the unknowns both as players and contributors) will add to that but this is his team much as the Celtics became Kyrie's team or the Lakers became LeBron's team.  Does his being the highest recruit on our roster make him immune to such criticism ---- constructive or otherwise?  No.  And given the kid's character, I think he'll handle it well.  Did he put up great numbers elsewhere?  Sure.  Is he a stat sheet stuffer?  Absolutely.  Does he put the ball in the basket  enough?  Unequivocally NO.  

Why didn't I pick on French?  Because he is not the engine that makes this team run.  Never will be.  Why not Thatch?  He's a freshman, and a good freshman defensively, but give me another year of stats and production on the offensive end for better analysis.  But he too is not the point guard, it is unlikely the offense will ever run through/by Thatch the way it does with Goodwin.  Goodwin won't be H Waldman, but he needs to be Marque Perry/Kwamain Mitchell and closer to Larry Hughes than not.  Recognizing no one can be Larry Hughes.  

I certainly agree with Cowboy in that we need to applaud the kid because he did get screwed by the U in S2 and yet he came back.  They all got screwed.  But they also made bad choices with consequences and ramifications.  So it goes.  Next year S2 is a real distant memory ---- no more 'if only Henriquez was here.'  No more Isabell and Wiley as  S2 replacements.  Also no more Bess or Foreman.  Really, really, really Jordan Goodwin's team going forward.  

Old guy knows "we have good recruits."  There's an anti-war statement that used to circulate post-Vietnam that said "blind faith in your leaders will get you killed."  I prefer to wait and see before I support old guy's beliefs.  Old guy also think our three returning vets are the "least of our concerns."  That's our foundation ---- damn straight I'm worried.  

I agree with three star that he's a unique talent.  I know like wgstl he'll finish tops in a lot of categories.  But in a team game its about team championships.  Ask the leading scorer in men's Olympic basketball (pro era) history if he thinks himself a "champion" with zero NBA titles.  One of the greatest NFL QBs in the Hall of Fame made one Super Bowl (his rookie year) and is more noted for that than his numbers.  

Yes everybody needs work.  But the linchpin is Goodwin.  Maybe its only a metric tonne.  A half-ton.  Maybe it's only 'lots.'  You can argue over my thread title and I know a few mods who can change it if they so desire.  But the facts (offensively) remain.

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Posters can edit their own thread titles.  Hover over the actual title, and it will change color and a tooltip will say "Click and hold to edit title."  When you follow those directions, the title will turn into a text field.  When you're satisfied with your changes, click enter/return to make the edit stick.

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thanks thicks.

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In order to improve morale and performance, we shall implement a program to beat underperforming players. Those who don’t like this program will be beaten twice a day until improvements are noted.

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1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

In order to improve morale and performance, we shall implement a program to beat underperforming players. Those who don’t like this program will be beaten twice a day until improvements are noted.

So that's the real reason Ingvi Gudmundsson left!

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Aye, matey!  The floggings will continue until the crew morale improves!

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8 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Look, I got five pages of discussion going on here and it's likely approaching its end.  Or maybe it goes on.  There is hardly anyone who has a point/counterpoint that I disagree vehemently with.  Did I single out Jordan Goodwin?  Yes I did.  Why? Because this is his team going forward and we only go as far as he takes us.  Yes, French and Thatch and a whole bunch of unknowns (heavy, heavy on the unknowns both as players and contributors) will add to that but this is his team much as the Celtics became Kyrie's team or the Lakers became LeBron's team.  Does his being the highest recruit on our roster make him immune to such criticism ---- constructive or otherwise?  No.  And given the kid's character, I think he'll handle it well.  Did he put up great numbers elsewhere?  Sure.  Is he a stat sheet stuffer?  Absolutely.  Does he put the ball in the basket  enough?  Unequivocally NO.  

Why didn't I pick on French?  Because he is not the engine that makes this team run.  Never will be.  Why not Thatch?  He's a freshman, and a good freshman defensively, but give me another year of stats and production on the offensive end for better analysis.  But he too is not the point guard, it is unlikely the offense will ever run through/by Thatch the way it does with Goodwin.  Goodwin won't be H Waldman, but he needs to be Marque Perry/Kwamain Mitchell and closer to Larry Hughes than not.  Recognizing no one can be Larry Hughes.  

I certainly agree with Cowboy in that we need to applaud the kid because he did get screwed by the U in S2 and yet he came back.  They all got screwed.  But they also made bad choices with consequences and ramifications.  So it goes.  Next year S2 is a real distant memory ---- no more 'if only Henriquez was here.'  No more Isabell and Wiley as  S2 replacements.  Also no more Bess or Foreman.  Really, really, really Jordan Goodwin's team going forward.  

Old guy knows "we have good recruits."  There's an anti-war statement that used to circulate post-Vietnam that said "blind faith in your leaders will get you killed."  I prefer to wait and see before I support old guy's beliefs.  Old guy also think our three returning vets are the "least of our concerns."  That's our foundation ---- damn straight I'm worried.  

I agree with three star that he's a unique talent.  I know like wgstl he'll finish tops in a lot of categories.  But in a team game its about team championships.  Ask the leading scorer in men's Olympic basketball (pro era) history if he thinks himself a "champion" with zero NBA titles.  One of the greatest NFL QBs in the Hall of Fame made one Super Bowl (his rookie year) and is more noted for that than his numbers.  

Yes everybody needs work.  But the linchpin is Goodwin.  Maybe its only a metric tonne.  A half-ton.  Maybe it's only 'lots.'  You can argue over my thread title and I know a few mods who can change it if they so desire.  But the facts (offensively) remain.

Taj

Agree with much of your post ... but the effects of S2 will not disappear next year. Yes, Henriquez and Bishop would have been Seniors this year but not Graves. More importantly, our lack of class balance is S2 related and comments that Ford has not reached the NCAA Tourney,  Goodwin and French did or did not reach the Tourney, failed expectations ... all center around S2 so reference to S2 is needed if comments are made assuming S2 never happened. 

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On 3/13/2019 at 1:45 PM, Taj79 said:

Nice job DoctorB.  Jordan Goodwin missed the last five games last year due to his suspension.  Plus the two A10 tournament games.  So that's either 5 or 7 of 33 total games.  In one number, that's less that 20%.  Don't tell me he missed much of season #1.  That's not true.  Some might even say a lie. 

 I'm like my old man, I guess--I really resent being called a liar, even by the likes of you.  Of course you aren't man enough to say it to my face... 

Just for the record -- yes, he missed much of the season, including by far the most important parts.  He also got hammered punishment wise and it took its toll on him and his family.    It set him back some.  Also: a lie is done with the intention to deceive.  You are clearly not the most intelligent poster on here but you must have had enough education to know that much.

Nice job, Taj -- this must be one of the all-time a$$-hat replies on here.  Thanks for reminding me why I rarely post on this site anymore, dude.  You are a real piece of work.

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Goodwin is a great player but he does need a lot of work. Goodwin is the guy to lead us to the sweet 16 and beyond. Not just lead us to 1 or 2 NCAA tourney's in his 4 years

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DoctorBullshite ----- so you think 20% of games is "most" of the season?  What mail-order group did you attain your doctorate from?  Next time I'm in town, pass me your season ticket seat number and I'll gladly find you and discuss it with you in person.  Continue to make asinine statements, please.  Because I will continue to call your sizable bluff.  And if I've in some way caused you to go away, then I'll consider my work here done and a huge, positive accomplishment.

To help you on your way, let me know what your contribution is to billikens.com so I can easily step up to replace.  Wouldn't want the community to suffer with your loss of playing in our sandbox.

edit: sorry "much of season #1" not most.

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7 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

DoctorBullshite ----- so you think 20% of games is "most" of the season?  What mail-order group did you attain your doctorate from?  Next time I'm in town, pass me your season ticket seat number and I'll gladly find you and discuss it with you in person.  Continue to make asinine statements, please.  Because I will continue to call your sizable bluff.  And if I've in some way caused you to go away, then I'll consider my work here done and a huge, positive accomplishment.

To help you on your way, let me know what your contribution is to billikens.com so I can easily step up to replace.  Wouldn't want the community to suffer with your loss of playing in our sandbox.

edit: sorry "much of season #1" not most.

I will never understand why some on this board like to drive others off the board. I understand getting rid of true trolls but not people like Doctor B. Do you only want people who agree with you to post here?  This board wouldnt be worth reading if that is the case.

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2 minutes ago, slusam said:

I will never understand why some on this board like to drive others off the board. I understand getting rid of true trolls but not people like Doctor B. Do you only want people who agree with you to post here?  This board wouldnt be worth reading if that is the case.

I agree with this but this is literally what everyone attacking Taj (about his fair criticism of Goodwin) are doing

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7 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I agree with this but this is literally what everyone attacking Taj (about his fair criticism of Goodwin) are doing

I think a lot of people disagreed with this thread, including me, but i dont remember anyone trying to drive him from the board. There is always going to be different views on a board like this.

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36 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

DoctorBullshite ----- so you think 20% of games is "most" of the season?  What mail-order group did you attain your doctorate from?  Next time I'm in town, pass me your season ticket seat number and I'll gladly find you and discuss it with you in person.  Continue to make asinine statements, please.  Because I will continue to call your sizable bluff.  And if I've in some way caused you to go away, then I'll consider my work here done and a huge, positive accomplishment.

To help you on your way, let me know what your contribution is to billikens.com so I can easily step up to replace.  Wouldn't want the community to suffer with your loss of playing in our sandbox.

edit: sorry "much of season #1" not most.

Wtf is this nonsense? 

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