slufanskip Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, NH said: Two things can be true at the same time: 1) Jordan Goodwin is really good at basketball and a really valuable contributor 2) There are a lot of areas in which Jordan Goodwin has substantial room for improvement. He has a unique skill set, and is good-to-elite at multiple facets of the game (passing, rebounding, deflections, getting to the foul line). He also could be much better at several aspects (ball handling, 3-point shooting, free-throw shooting). My personal opinion is that because he didn’t improve as much as we would like in some of those latter categories, many on this board are taking for granted the things that Jordan does really well. He has also shown a ton of passion and work ethic, which I think should give us optimism that he will improve on some of those holes in his game. I've read very little taking Jordan's skills or contributions for granted. It seems to be the opposite to me. How dare anyone say Jordan didn't play as well as expected or that he needs to improve. Not one person said he sucked, or he shouldn't start, or he shouldn't be on the team. Critique of any player not named Jordan Goodwin seems to be fair game. I was in fact disappointed by his play based upon my expectations, his HS ranking, and his play last year. I can also appreciate the things he does well. Imo there is only one area I'd call him very good and that is as a rebounder. He's good at a lot of things but like you said above if he wants to be the best player he can be he has to become a better shooter and he has to make better decisions pushing the ball billikenbill likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 3 hours ago, TaLBErt said: Who are you to be giving all these kids "end of the season report cards"? Why do you think your word is law on this message board? Get over yourself, man. This board is nothing but opinions. Did he say his word was law? or that everyone must agree? Nope, just another MBM expressing his opinion, just like the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RiseOfTheBillikens Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 In my opinion having a thread titled "Jordan Goodwin needs tons of work" on your fan bases message board looks bad. Especially when he's the prize local recruit, backbone of the team, holder of the only triple double in school history, and who many other upcoming local recruits look up to. Maybe that's just me though. Cincybill, Clocktoweraccords2004, HoosierPal and 12 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said: In my opinion having a thread titled "Jordan Goodwin needs tons of work" on your fan bases message board looks bad. Especially when he's the prize local recruit, backbone of the team, holder of the only triple double in school history, and who many other upcoming local recruits look up to. Maybe that's just me though. Not just you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Jordon lost a lot of weight. I wonder if that effected him. I hope he puts back on 15 pounds of muscle over the off season to get some of the strength back. I think he was a great combination of strength and agility and may have lost some of the strength component with the loss of weight. That could improve his overall game and confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said: In my opinion having a thread titled "Jordan Goodwin needs tons of work" on your fan bases message board looks bad. Especially when he's the prize local recruit, backbone of the team, holder of the only triple double in school history, and who many other upcoming local recruits look up to. Maybe that's just me though. I can assure you Jordan Goodwin and other recruits do not care what MBM say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clocktoweraccords2004 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Can we delete this thread plz. I’m sure Jordon is dissapointed in himself. Let’s not give him the false notion that the fan base is upset at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, billikenfan05 said: Not just you Agreed. Taj Mahal 79, who I respect, needed to tone down the title to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clocktoweraccords2004 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Kid averages almost a double double and has had a triple double. Chill out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkielBreakers Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 If everyone is being fair, Bess at .388 shooting percentage is not lighting the world on fire. French struggled in non-conference, and his conference shot numbers are way down. Tremaine actually is hitting a pretty good percentage, especially over the past ~10 games, but finds his share of turnovers. Hopefully Goodwin improves, but he is certainly not alone in struggling this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorB Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Personally I'm glad to have Jordan 2 more years. Super-glad! Simply stated: he will need to develop his shooting to get to the next level. Case solved. Anyone can see it, and he knows it too. 1000 shots a day all summer should help... SO: Why all the sturm and drang?? otherwise he's got all the tools, plus the HEART to compete. just a soph, and he missed much of season #1. over and out. moytoy12 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Nice job DoctorB. Jordan Goodwin missed the last five games last year due to his suspension. Plus the two A10 tournament games. So that's either 5 or 7 of 33 total games. In one number, that's less that 20%. Don't tell me he missed much of season #1. That's not true. Some might even say a lie. I am happy to have Jordan Goodwin for two more years as well. But in the preseason he was what, ranked 7th ir 8th best player in the A10. And didn't make an all-conference team. That is not a star going forward. Can be. But isn't right now. Improvement I sneede dup and down this roster --- including from the coaching staff. Demand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Man Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 12 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said: Can we delete this thread plz. I’m sure Jordon is dissapointed in himself. Let’s not give him the false notion that the fan base is upset at him. Jordan - J-O-R-D-A-N - same spelling as Michael Jordan - the greatest basketball player of all time. Disappointed - D-I-S-A-P-P-O-I-N-T-E-D - as in we're all disappointed in a tied for 6th conference finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 My biggest complaint with this thread, and other criticisms of players about a possible slump from last year to this year, is that they are premature. Can we not wait a week -- possibly longer after we win the next 4 games and punch our NCAA Tourney ticket? And not just as to better players (Goodwin and French). Sure, comments about existing players are made and expressed during the season when discussing recruiting of future players but it just seems there are certain topics best made after the season. And sure, criticism and comments should naturally be expressed about a player during the season about a bad play, bad decision making/execution, bad game or series of games... but year end player evaluations comparing this year to last year might be best after this season is over. CBFan likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Man Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 30 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said: My biggest complaint with this thread, and other criticisms of players about a possible slump from last year to this year, is that they are premature. Can we not wait a week -- possibly longer after we win the next 4 games and punch our NCAA Tourney ticket? And not just as to better players (Goodwin and French). Sure, comments about existing players are made and expressed during the season when discussing recruiting of future players but it just seems there are certain topics best made after the season. And sure, criticism and comments should naturally be expressed about a player during the season about a bad play, bad decision making/execution, bad game or series of games... but year end player evaluations comparing this year to last year might be best after this season is over. Au contraire... We're losing our top 2 scorers, so regardless of how things go the rest of the way, we need Goodwin to polish his offensive game for 2019-20. Even if Goodwin plays out of his mind for the next 2 weeks including the NCAA tournament, there's a 57 game sample where he's averaged 10.9 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 3.8 APG, on 38.4% FG, 24.2 3P%, 59.2 FT% - we need better than that next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said: My biggest complaint with this thread, and other criticisms of players about a possible slump from last year to this year, is that they are premature. Can we not wait a week -- possibly longer after we win the next 4 games and punch our NCAA Tourney ticket? And not just as to better players (Goodwin and French). Sure, comments about existing players are made and expressed during the season when discussing recruiting of future players but it just seems there are certain topics best made after the season. And sure, criticism and comments should naturally be expressed about a player during the season about a bad play, bad decision making/execution, bad game or series of games... but year end player evaluations comparing this year to last year might be best after this season is over. All this whining is probably due to that some had over hyped the team and now they have to justify that their over hype was not their fault but the team's fault for not meeting their lofty and perhaps not attainable goals. This team had holes and we all knew it - the perimeter shooting troubles were not a surprise and the loss of Santos and Gordon trashed the offensive production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 5 hours ago, DoctorB said: Personally I'm glad to have Jordan 2 more years. Super-glad! Simply stated: he will need to develop his shooting to get to the next level. Case solved. Anyone can see it, and he knows it too. 1000 shots a day all summer should help... SO: Why all the sturm and drang?? otherwise he's got all the tools, plus the HEART to compete. just a soph, and he missed much of season #1. over and out. Well done. Three lines instead of three paragraphs sums it up. [Did they teach sturm and drang at Brebeuf?] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I thought it was "sturm und drang"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, cheeseman said: All this whining is probably due to that some had over hyped the team and now they have to justify that their over hype was not their fault but the team's fault for not meeting their lofty and perhaps not attainable goals. This team had holes and we all knew it - the perimeter shooting troubles were not a surprise and the loss of Santos and Gordon trashed the offensive production. I pointed out my concern about the shooting before this season, and unfortunately wasn't proven wrong. Heading into next season, I still have my doubts that we have adequately addressed it - although there is still an opportunity with more scholarships to fill. cheeseman likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Duff Man said: Au contraire... We're losing our top 2 scorers, so regardless of how things go the rest of the way, we need Goodwin to polish his offensive game for 2019-20. Actually we are losing 72% of our current team for next season. We are going to depend on the incoming class to provide a significant portion of our offensive as well as defensive capability next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: I thought it was "sturm und drang"? Maybe if you're in France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: Maybe if you're in France. Regarding a German phrase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Quality Is Job 1 said: Regarding a German phrase? That's why it was in blue. Thanks for playing. You get the storm AND stress award for today...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: That's why it was in blue. Thanks for playing. You get the storm AND stress award for today...... You're so clever. ...in your own mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 If Goodwin had not been a dominant scorer in high school and a top 50 player, expectations would have been lower. In fact he may not have played 30+ minutes right out of the box because if everyone remembers, he struggled mightily with his shooting in the first five games. But he was pressed into heavy minutes early and eventulally played up to his ranking in the second half of the year. It's not realistic to ask everyone to forget his high school ranking and the last 16 games of last season and instead judge him by the sophomore version of Jett or Conklin. He's a blue chip recruit. The expectations are much higher. That's what blue chip means. If he never resumes his blue chip trajectory, that doesn't mean he won't be pivotal to our success. It just he means he fell short of lofty expectations. That wouldn't be his fault. He's just a kid trying to get better. It's fans and media that get wrapped up in expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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