The dreaded sophomore slump

[mrjoelabs]

3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

French and Goodwin are warriors.  They are our guys and I will continue to support them.  But power players who can't shoot are simply not as valuable today as they were 20 years ago.  Spacing is a lot more important because offense today is so reliant on drive and kick.

I was at the Valley tournament yesterday celebrating the birthday of a friend.  We were watching the Bradley vs. Loyola game and I noticed a former Billiken recruit playing for Bradley, Elijah Childs.  Childs was 6'6 205 when were recruiting him.  French was clearly the better player back then but Childs was clearly the better shooter.  Two years later Childs is now 6'7 225 lb and the physical advantage French had over him has all but disappeared.  Childs is now French's equal as a player .  He's about as efficient as French in the paint but he also has a 12-15 foot jump shot.  He's not as dominant a rebounder but compensates by shooting 66% from the free throw line.

Similar observations can be made about Goodwin and Dayton's Jalen Crutcher.  Goodwin, based on his physical dominance in high school, was a top 50ish recruit.  Crutcher was a skinny  3 star guard who didn't even attract A10 attention until his senior season.  But he was quicker, had better handles and a better shot.  Two years later,  those core qualities have made him into the more prolific scorer and assist man.

Shooting -- 2 pt shooting, 3 pt shooting, free throw shooting -- has always been the most important aspect of basketball but today it's even more important than ever.  It's easier to build up a young man's body than it is to build a shot.

This is one of the best posts I have ever seen. And damn accurate. No one can predict the future, but can all of Ford's issues really be blamed on "bad luck"??  Or maybe he doesn't know what hes doing. 

[Coach314]

3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

French and Goodwin are warriors.  They are our guys and I will continue to support them.  But power players who can't shoot are simply not as valuable today as they were 20 years ago.  Spacing is a lot more important because offense today is so reliant on drive and kick.

I was at the Valley tournament yesterday celebrating the birthday of a friend.  We were watching the Bradley vs. Loyola game and I noticed a former Billiken recruit playing for Bradley, Elijah Childs.  Childs was 6'6 205 when were recruiting him.  French was clearly the better player back then but Childs was clearly the better shooter.  Two years later Childs is now 6'7 225 lb and the physical advantage French had over him has all but disappeared.  Childs is now French's equal as a player .  He's about as efficient as French in the paint but he also has a 12-15 foot jump shot.  He's not as dominant a rebounder but compensates by shooting 66% from the free throw line.

Similar observations can be made about Goodwin and Dayton's Jalen Crutcher.  Goodwin, based on his physical dominance in high school, was a top 50ish recruit.  Crutcher was a skinny  3 star guard who didn't even attract A10 attention until his senior season.  But he was quicker, had better handles and a better shot.  Two years later,  those core qualities have made him into the more prolific scorer and assist man.

Shooting -- 2 pt shooting, 3 pt shooting, free throw shooting -- has always been the most important aspect of basketball but today it's even more important than ever.  It's easier to build up a young man's body than it is to build a shot.

Great post.  I like the breakdown on Childs.  Saw him over the years in AAU ball and against WG at State against Courtney Ramey.  He has definitely improved over the years.  As for your comment about power players...it seems that was what Ford was going for.  Gordon, Santos, French, Goodwin and Thatch.  Seems like he wanted to be the more physical team vs the more offensively skilled.  Dominate the boards...play strong defense....slow pace,  half court offense.  My question:  do you think with the increase in offensive talent next year he will adjust his gameplan for a faster tempo and what would your starting five be next year with the players we know are coming so far?  Appreciate your thoughts

[Taj79]

You played the racism card thicks.  You can call it stereotyping, profiling, anything else you want to as you try and disguise it and backpedal ... but you wrote the sentence ... "if a player is black .....; if a player is white ...."  In a great move in today's polarized society, YOU brought it up, not me.  Then you have the audacity to take umbrage and declare "We really ought to lose that perception/expectation."  I can't speak for anyone but myself but that perception was never part of my analysis.  And what's even funnier is there isn't really a white player on this team.  If this were a black vs. white stereotype (your word) and I'm colored by it, them why am I flying to St. Louis, driving to Dayton, training to DC, training to NYC to see and support them.  Just a stoopid statement and I thought you were above that.

But let's talk facts .... Goodwin's minutes this year are up . 4 mpg.  His FG% is up from 37.2% to 39.4%.  His 3PTFG% is up from 23.5% to 25%.  His rebounds are down .3 rpg.  Assists also down .3 per game.  His steals and turnovers are the same as last year.  Where he really slumps is at the FT line, going from 69% to 52%.  I'd love to do an analysis (and I will later this week) like I did with Jett ...... what is the true shooting percentage if you discount and eliminate the layups?  What did Goodwin really shoot from the floor?  The only way to do it is to go back to the play-by-play logs, and erase "Goodwin made dunk," or "Goodwin made layup" or "Goodwin made tip in."  Then you can see what a true return it is on FG% from midrange and distance.  I don't know ---- maybe it will all be equal ---- but the eye test and sniff test right now say it is not. 

French has played just about the same minutes as last year, but his FG% has dropped about 5%.  He doesn't shoot threes, his rebounds are up 1.3 per game, and his steals are up slightly while all his other numbers are essentially the same as last year.  His FT% dropped from 36.4% to 34.7%  which means he's missing maybe two more free throws per every 100 taken.  The only sophomore slump I see is Ford-induced ---- trying to assimilate into a game plan that included Gordon and Isabell. 

As for Thatch, the numbers aren't much different in terms of percentages .... 38.6% from the field, 28.3% from three, 62.5% from the line which actually sucks but is a beacon of brightness on this team.  He was 17-of-60 from three overall but made four-of-five against Oregon State back in December.  Takes those out and his % is now down to 23.6% overall.  Yes, I agree he may very well become a great shooter ... but is not now.  'Oh but Taj, he's only a freshman, he'll obviously get better.'  Sure.  Hankton and Jacobs were also freshmen and did nothing.  Jimerson and Collins and Hargrove will all be freshmen too.  This whole team needs LOTS of work, that is all I'm saying.

Some guys used to argue that just being in the system would make guys better.  The old 'better with age' aspect.  Goodwin and French's numbers remained the same.  Did they not grow?  They certainly did not slump, the numbers show that.  But they did not progress much.  And again, I blame that on Ford ---- he had a different plan (or so it seems) and it didn't pan out.  Do-do happens.  Next year is a rebuilding year ---- and I'm not advocating that in terms of roster but maybe coaching approach.  There is nothing wrong to letting the horses run if you have such athletes.  As a matter of fact, that's the only way you win if the basketball skills are low.  We've al heard Ford can't press because ehis bench is so light.  We've heard that for two years and yes, it was true.  Next year's OOC review will be heavy on style of play ---- if he insists on the walk-it-up, run a weave for 10 seconds, pass-around-the-perimeter offense, I suspect we will be far less than what we could be. 

Stereotype that.

[Clock_Tower]

13 hours ago, Taj79 said:

I blame it on Ford  ------ even though he was powerless to stop it.  Let's look at Ford's recruiting for some answers.  

Year One:  Foreman, Bess, Henriquez, Johnson, Santos and Graves.  Short of Henriquez, none of the others were seen as shooters although JJ came on.  Plus you had Bishop, arguably a shooter, recovering from injury in the wings.  Situation 2.0 robbed us of both shooters plus whatever Graves could do.

Year Two:  Fall semester signing is bopping along and we have athletes in Gordon and Thatch locked up as well as Pearson.  S 2.0 comes to fruition and now in the spring, Pearson bolts and is replaced by Hankton and in comes Jacobs and Thor.  With the dismissal of your entire exterior shooting crew, Ford has to check fire and go after Isabell and Wiley.  Two of what could be called the best transfer guards out there.  Meanwhile, French and Goodwin, playing shorthanded, are playing and developing well.  But the new recruits skew the lineup as we enter Year Three.

Year Three now sees Gordon infringing on French's territory, the low blocks.  Foreman is a wing forward, not know for pounding down low, not known for jump shots, but for driving to the hole.  What French had become used to with Foreman is skewed by Gordon's presence and time is needed to figure it out.  Gordon transfers and we are back to French 1.0.  Meanwhile, on the backcourt side, Isabell is given the keys to the car.  Isabell needs the ball in his hands to create.  So does Jordan Goodwin.  Jordan Goodwin is a slasher, a stat stuffer but not a shooter.  Jordan Goodwin is an athlete and good enough to use that athleticism at the high school level to be elite.  But next level up always demands more.  Goodwin doesn't have a shot.  He's not renown as even half the shooter a decimated Wiley was.  His athleticism was enough to be a starter but he contributed very little in terms of an offensive option.  Bess did tons of work to be the shooter in this lineup.  And until Isabell found a decent stroke of late, that was it.  Thatch is an athlete as well.  Thatch could be Goodwin 2.0 but then again, neither is a shooter.  Playing both is akin to playing 3 on 5 on the offensive end.  With neither able to garner respect for their shots, they are then dared to take them.  Zones are packed in.  Both would be best served as the entry pass receiver in the key.  Work you slashing from there.  Thatch is a much better Ft shooter it seems.

But it doesn't matter who plays point because if you do drive and slash, who do you dish to?  Who makes an open jumper?  This is the very same dilemma that awaits Yuri Collins next year.  From what I have heard, Terrance Hargrove is a slasher/athlete in the mold of Goodwin and Thatch.  You going to put four non-shooting options on the floor now (Goodwin, Thatch, Collins, Hargrove)?  

This is why its on Ford.  He's getting great athletes or so it seems but then runs walk-the-ball-up-the-court offenses.  And I am not down on Ford.  He has been hamstrung by the decisions allowed to be made by Title IX idiots sanctioned by Fred Pestello.  Fine ---- water under the bridge.  Can't change history.  He's lost the lineups he thought he had plus typical and questionable decisions by knuckleheads like Gordon, Pearson and Thor.  With a short bench, I think he's done pretty well.  

To say next year is it is unfair.  We essentially have three returnees.  The rest are newbies.  Lineups like that don't do well.  A preseason ninth place finish will likely be predicted by the media for us in the A10.  But .... next year is it.  

Taj.

You make some good points, make some valid concerns which I share but I suggest your premise is flawed: 

First, you acknowledge S2 and say "water under the bridge... can't change history, but then you continue on with your premise:  Coach Ford is recruiting random athletes but not a well planned team of complimentary players.  In response, I suggest that this team looks a lot different with Graves handling the PG along with Goodwin and with BOTH Henriquez and Bess to kick the ball to. Isabell and Wiley were last minute replacements to minimize the damage caused by S2.  Mickey Pearson also can shoot the 3.

Second, the easy answer is to simply say:  play fast tempo, run up and down.  The problem is that well coached half court defensive teams like St. Bonaventure are usually able to slow down/stop such game plans.  Spoonhour did that successfully for years.   We would lose to Memphis and Cincy playing the full court, up tempo games you are wanting us to play had be gone head to head Larry Finch's guys/Anfernee Hardaway and Bobby Huggins thugs.  Far greater talent is needed to dictate the tempo and pace of play, and even then, opponents can still slow down the game. Simply trying to run an up tempo offense does not eliminate the zone defense we struggle with.  I don't want Robert Carpenter if we already have Hargrove and Perkins.  I want another shooter and/or combo 1/2 guard.

Next year, we are told that Jimerson will make the 3 pointers and that Thatch will also help from the perimeter in his new role.  We are also told that Perkins will make outside shots against zone defenses.  I hope so but suggest that Perkins will only be able to really help from the perimeter if is playing the 3 as opposed to the 4.  3 more scholarships to give.  We are also told that the one dimensional play of Goodwin and French will not be so glaring based upon different and more complimentary players.  I hope so b/c we are playing short handed if guys cannot shoot the ball - which is why I am concerned about a 510" PG who doesn't shoot and who may not start until his JR year.

But as much as S2 hindered this year's team, I also think many are underestimating the extent of injuries.  Bess has been injured for a month now -- and he is simply not the likely NBA player we previously watched.  Same with Foreman - he has simply not been healthy this year and not playing as expected b/c of his health.  Same with Wiley.   And Welmer, of course, missed the entire year.  And Jacobs and Hankton both receive an "I" from me for their year end grades:  Incomplete..  

 

[3star_recruit]

10 hours ago, Coach314 said:

Great post.  I like the breakdown on Childs.  Saw him over the years in AAU ball and against WG at State against Courtney Ramey.  He has definitely improved over the years.  As for your comment about power players...it seems that was what Ford was going for.  Gordon, Santos, French, Goodwin and Thatch.  Seems like he wanted to be the more physical team vs the more offensively skilled.  Dominate the boards...play strong defense....slow pace,  half court offense.  My question:  do you think with the increase in offensive talent next year he will adjust his gameplan for a faster tempo and what would your starting five be next year with the players we know are coming so far?  Appreciate your thoughts

The only thing I know with certainty is that we will get easier buckets and shoot a higher percentage when Yuri is on the floor.  But the tenor of the offense will still be determined by Goodwin because he's going to spend a lot of time at the point.  He has to.  If he were to spend most of his time at the 2 or the 3, he would be taking minutes away from better scoring options.

What happens when Goodwin is spearheading the offense really depends on the progress he makes with his shot over the summer.  There's only so much running you can do with a power guard that has average handles and average quickness.  The greatest impact that Goodwin can make on the offense is by increasing his 2 pt percentage and free throw percentage.  And he can do this, we're not asking for anything crazy.  Goodwin just needs to post up more and shoot free throws at the same level he did his freshman year.

If he can't do that, then it's conceivable we are a better offensive team without him on the floor by his senior year.  I do not wish that for him.  I want Goodwin to go out in a blaze of glory.

[NH]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

You played the racism card thicks.  You can call it stereotyping, profiling, anything else you want to as you try and disguise it and backpedal ... but you wrote the sentence ... "if a player is black .....; if a player is white ...."  In a great move in today's polarized society, YOU brought it up, not me.  Then you have the audacity to take umbrage and declare "We really ought to lose that perception/expectation."  I can't speak for anyone but myself but that perception was never part of my analysis.  And what's even funnier is there isn't really a white player on this team.  If this were a black vs. white stereotype (your word) and I'm colored by it, them why am I flying to St. Louis, driving to Dayton, training to DC, training to NYC to see and support them.  Just a stoopid statement and I thought you were above that.

But let's talk facts .... Goodwin's minutes this year are up . 4 mpg.  His FG% is up from 37.2% to 39.4%.  His 3PTFG% is up from 23.5% to 25%.  His rebounds are down .3 rpg.  Assists also down .3 per game.  His steals and turnovers are the same as last year.  Where he really slumps is at the FT line, going from 69% to 52%.  I'd love to do an analysis (and I will later this week) like I did with Jett ...... what is the true shooting percentage if you discount and eliminate the layups?  What did Goodwin really shoot from the floor?  The only way to do it is to go back to the play-by-play logs, and erase "Goodwin made dunk," or "Goodwin made layup" or "Goodwin made tip in."  Then you can see what a true return it is on FG% from midrange and distance.  I don't know ---- maybe it will all be equal ---- but the eye test and sniff test right now say it is not. 

French has played just about the same minutes as last year, but his FG% has dropped about 5%.  He doesn't shoot threes, his rebounds are up 1.3 per game, and his steals are up slightly while all his other numbers are essentially the same as last year.  His FT% dropped from 36.4% to 34.7%  which means he's missing maybe two more free throws per every 100 taken.  The only sophomore slump I see is Ford-induced ---- trying to assimilate into a game plan that included Gordon and Isabell. 

As for Thatch, the numbers aren't much different in terms of percentages .... 38.6% from the field, 28.3% from three, 62.5% from the line which actually sucks but is a beacon of brightness on this team.  He was 17-of-60 from three overall but made four-of-five against Oregon State back in December.  Takes those out and his % is now down to 23.6% overall.  Yes, I agree he may very well become a great shooter ... but is not now.  'Oh but Taj, he's only a freshman, he'll obviously get better.'  Sure.  Hankton and Jacobs were also freshmen and did nothing.  Jimerson and Collins and Hargrove will all be freshmen too.  This whole team needs LOTS of work, that is all I'm saying.

Some guys used to argue that just being in the system would make guys better.  The old 'better with age' aspect.  Goodwin and French's numbers remained the same.  Did they not grow?  They certainly did not slump, the numbers show that.  But they did not progress much.  And again, I blame that on Ford ---- he had a different plan (or so it seems) and it didn't pan out.  Do-do happens.  Next year is a rebuilding year ---- and I'm not advocating that in terms of roster but maybe coaching approach.  There is nothing wrong to letting the horses run if you have such athletes.  As a matter of fact, that's the only way you win if the basketball skills are low.  We've al heard Ford can't press because ehis bench is so light.  We've heard that for two years and yes, it was true.  Next year's OOC review will be heavy on style of play ---- if he insists on the walk-it-up, run a weave for 10 seconds, pass-around-the-perimeter offense, I suspect we will be far less than what we could be. 

Stereotype that.

Your “stereotype that” line might be the cheesiest line I’ve ever read on this board. Please spare us with your over-the-top outrage.

[ACE]

17 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

I don't know what the metrics may say, but to my eye Goodwin has slumped a bit — particularly shooting.

They may have improved over their freshman numbers, but not as much as one could reasonably expect.  That's what makes it a slump.  It's not in the raw numbers but in the expected progression.

Agreed. The numbers are similar from freshman to sophomore year, but you would expect improvement in players from one year to the next. He just looked a bit slower than the prior year - didn't get to the basket as much off the dribble and defensively seemed to get beat more. This will be a big off-season for him to see if he can elevate his game to the All-Conference player everybody expected him to be.

[SShoe]

53 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

The only thing I know with certainty is that we will get easier buckets and shoot a higher percentage when Yuri is on the floor.  But the tenor of the offense will still be determined by Goodwin because he's going to spend a lot of time at the point.  He has to.  If he were to spend most of his time at the 2 or the 3, he would be taking minutes away from better scoring options.

What happens when Goodwin is spearheading the offense really depends on the progress he makes with his shot over the summer.  There's only so much running you can do with a power guard that has average handles and average quickness.  The greatest impact that Goodwin can make on the offense is by increasing his 2 pt percentage and free throw percentage.  And he can do this, we're not asking for anything crazy.  Goodwin just needs to post up more and shoot free throws at the same level he did his freshman year.

If he can't do that, then it's conceivable we are a better offensive team without him on the floor by his senior year.  I do not wish that for him.  I want Goodwin to go out in a blaze of glory.

Goodwin should go back and watch some film of Jordair.  While he may yet still become a good shooter from 3, Jett showed that you can do a lot of damage by just stepping inside the line and taking 15 footers.  Jordan could make a living there. 

[slu72]

3 minutes ago, SShoe said:

Goodwin should go back and watch some film of Jordair.  While he may yet still become a good shooter from 3, Jett showed that you can do a lot of damage by just stepping inside the line and taking 15 footers.  Jordan could make a living there. 

I'm not sure JGood is as quick as Jett. But will say his working on a mid range jumper this summer would be to his advantage. 

[brianstl]

3 minutes ago, ACE said:

Agreed. The numbers are similar from freshman to sophomore year, but you would expect improvement in players from one year to the next. He just looked a bit slower than the prior year - didn't get to the basket as much off the dribble and defensively seemed to get beat more. This will be a big off-season for him to see if he can elevate his game to the All-Conference player everybody expected him to be.

This is a case of the numbers lying.  Goodwin started off last season as a terrible shooter and that really had an outsized impact on his numbers overall.  You drop the first 10 games last season and Goodwin numbers are completely different.  In the last 16 games Goodwin played in last season he shot 43.4% overall, 45.4% from 2, 37.4% from 3, 76% from the FT line, averaged 12.8 ppg, 7.9 rpg and almost a block per game.  

He took a step back this season.  I have a feeling when the season is over we will hear about an injury he has been dealing with all season.

[ACE]

8 minutes ago, brianstl said:

This is a case of the numbers lying.  Goodwin started off last season as a terrible shooter and that really had an outsized impact on his numbers overall.  You drop the first 10 games last season and Goodwin numbers are completely different.  In the last 16 games Goodwin played in last season he shot 43.4% overall, 45.4% from 2, 37.4% from 3, 76% from the FT line, averaged 12.8 ppg, 7.9 rpg and almost a block per game.  

He took a step back this season.  I have a feeling when the season is over we will hear about an injury he has been dealing with all season.

No argument from me. I think he was definitely worse this year. His performance was one of the biggest factors why this was a disappointing season,

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

This is a case of the numbers lying.  Goodwin started off last season as a terrible shooter and that really had an outsized impact on his numbers overall.  You drop the first 10 games last season and Goodwin numbers are completely different.  In the last 16 games Goodwin played in last season he shot 43.4% overall, 45.4% from 2, 37.4% from 3, 76% from the FT line, averaged 12.8 ppg, 7.9 rpg and almost a block per game.  

He took a step back this season.  I have a feeling when the season is over we will hear about an injury he has been dealing with all season.

Could be.  Or it could be that he was fueled by the emotions he felt about Situation 2. Goodwin never shot as well in his life from distance as he did during those 16 games.  Some athletes become especially focused when angry.

Hope your speculation is right.  There would be plenty of time for him to recover from an injury.

[Taj79]

Thank you, NH.  You're an idiot.  Have a nice day.

[Billiken Rich]

Gotta go with Taj on this one.  Thicks needs to get back on his meds.....

[Billikenbooster]

I always, always always try to see the other person's point of view.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and we openly discuss things here.  I love the discourse.

That being said, I have to agree with Taj. SorryThicks, I have re read Taj's post twice, and I think it's a little bit thin skinned of you to respond as you did.  I would love to hear your reply/analysis to see where you are coming from, but to jump from SLU's shooter needs to a different take as you have....well, it seemed to me to come out of nowhere.

mhg

[Quality Is Job 1]

4 hours ago, Billikenbooster said:

I always, always always try to see the other person's point of view.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and we openly discuss things here.  I love the discourse.

That being said, I have to agree with Taj. SorryThicks, I have re read Taj's post twice, and I think it's a little bit thin skinned of you to respond as you did.  I would love to hear your reply/analysis to see where you are coming from, but to jump from SLU's shooter needs to a different take as you have....well, it seemed to me to come out of nowhere.

mhg

My apologies to @Taj79.

I didn't intend for my post to be an indictment of anyone's beliefs.  Really, the only reason I quoted his post was to disagree with his typing of Thatch's style.

The remaining paragraph of that response was a general opinion addressing a feeling I had, not to accuse him or any other poster of anything malicious.

Read my post again, as well.  I couched everything in moderate terms to the best of my ability.  I didn't get outraged or jump down anyone's throat or say, "This is what's wrong with our society," or anything.

Athletes in many sports have been stereotyped on the basis of physical characteristics for decades.  I confess I even have such biases.  But I think if we (we) look beneath the surface, we'd see a slippery slope under our expectations.  Other than the fact that champion sprinters almost always are black, is there any sound basis for (almost instinctively) equating being black with being athletic and being white with being scrappy or smart?  And even sprinting's being dominated by black athletes may be more because of preferences than genetics.  Why is it that receivers (and cornerbacks) and kick returners in football are almost always black and quarterbacks and kickers are almost always white?  Surely it's not inherent ability!  That's what I'm getting at.

Larry Bird said that it motivated him when opposing teams used a white player to guard him.  He knew that he was athletic.  But even that can be viewed from the other side.  Larry, if you know that you're a plus athlete — despite not being black (?)̛ — then why presume that an opposing white guy can't be athletic?  And why suppose any black athlete must be athletic enough to guard you?  The stereotype was in his mind, too.

Lastly, I want to reiterate that my turning to this topic is not because I think Taj, or any other specific poster here, has racist views.  I do not think that.  I think these stereotypes have been embedded deeply within us.

[Billikenbooster]

Well said.

mhg

[Taj79]

Apology accepted.

I agree with billikenbooster and it being well said, however, we are now discussing absolutely nothing that had to do with the original analysis and thread content.  We've veered off the point that our roster is heavily athletic and short on basketball skills. 

As for couching things in "moderate terms," that doesn't happen where all you have is typeface on a background.  So you essentially hijacked the thread with some perceived subtext on stereotyping.  That's the fact here.

[3star_recruit]

Has anybody noticed the lack of athletic three point shooters in the St. Louis area? Two years ago there was Mark Smith and next year there's Luke Kasubke. That's about it.

[HoosierPal]

22 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Has anybody noticed the lack of athletic three point shooters in the St. Louis area? Two years ago there was Mark Smith and next year there's Luke Kasubke. That's about it.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but per the PD, here are the best Volume 3 PT shooters, makes per game.  Yes their stats sometimes are not correct, but it is what it is.

3 point leaders (min. 60 3-PT made)

Name	3FG	Avg
Ikel Sevier, Gateway STEM	87	3.63
Cody McKinney, Sullivan	104	3.47
Jack O'Brien, Duchesne	88	3.26
Jake Tonioli, Warrenton	82	3.15
Easton Null, Jefferson	88	3.14
Landon Hoffman, Sullivan	94	3.13
Brock Nelson, Greenville	74	2.96
Ben Lampkins, Hillsboro	83	2.96
Gavin Huffman, Roxana	88	2.93
Karson Huels, Gibault	88	2.84
Luke Kasubke, Chaminade	69	2.76
Adam Sommer, Parkway South	77	2.75
Justin Turner, Lift For Life	71	2.73
Aurelio Stucco, Whitfield	62	2.58
Cornelius Leflore, East St. Louis	81	2.53
Matt Miller, Parkway West	60	2.50
Jayce Catchings, Liberty	65	2.50

[Taj79]

This chart is volume, right?  Makes per game.  Lots of names I've never seen before (not that that matters) but that would seem not a lot of D1 interest in these guys as a majority.

[Cowboy]

-I expected JGood to have a massive chip on his shoulder this season as a result of the dealings from last year and that attitude would propel him to work his tail off in the off-season, play every game like a werewolf and be the POY in the conference, I thought and still think he has that ability as he can impact games in so many ways, so I don't if the season was a slump but my expectations were way, way too high

[3star_recruit]

We finally have a coach who prioritizes local talent at a time when the best shooters are not among the best players. Which means we have to import them. The 3 star shooters we recruited early, like Wynston Tabbs and Thomas Allen, eventually attract the attention of high majors and go that route instead.

Our east coast counterparts have the advantage of long-standing relationships with the many talent-rich high schools in the area. We're getting there but breaking into that club is hard.