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Glorydays2013

OT: Ford’s seat getting warm

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2 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

he pretty much said goodwin is the fault of the team.   

The Bills were picked to win the A10, and Goodwin and Bess were preseason 2nd team all A10, w/ French 3rd team.

Bess is playing like a 1st team all A10 and POY candidate. French has been a mild disappointment, but is trending up (FT shooting notwithstanding) since the start of A10 play.

Goodwin in the 8 conference games is shooting 34.3% from the floor (2.9 made FG per game on 8.4 attempts).

Those are the facts.

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Just now, billiken_roy said:

this.   the point is it is way too early in goodwin's career to make him out to be oscar robertson or closer to seke barentine.   let the guy play the games.   no one dogged jett like goodwin has been maligned here as of late and jett ended up being an all time great.   there is a lot of time for goodwin to do the same or not.  

Oh, I remember Jett catching a lot of flack for his loose handles (even though he had less turnovers/40 min than goodwin).  

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11 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

The Bills were picked to win the A10, and Goodwin and Bess were preseason 2nd team all A10, w/ French 3rd team.

Bess is playing like a 1st team all A10 and POY candidate. French has been a mild disappointment, but is trending up (FT shooting notwithstanding) since the start of A10 play.

Goodwin in the 8 conference games is shooting 34.3% from the floor (2.9 made FG per game on 8.4 attempts).

Those are the facts.

i look forward to your return to fairly apologize for your horrible assessment in two years.   

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7 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

this.   the point is it is way too early in goodwin's career to make him out to be oscar robertson or closer to seke barentine.   let the guy play the games.   no one dogged jett like goodwin has been maligned here as of late and jett ended up being an all time great.   there is a lot of time for goodwin to do the same or not.  

The difference between Jett and Goodwin is that he entered this season projected as an all-conference player and maybe even a POY candidate. It was talked about often on this board in the offseason and I don't recall anybody objecting to those lofty expectations.

There was that preseason list on A-10 Talk of top 20 players and we had four of them on the list - Gordon, Bess, French and Goodwin, who was ranked #3.  Gordon flaked out, French and Goodwin have not quite played up to that level consistently and Bess is the only one who has met or exceeded expectations.

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There is no way I'm giving up on Goodwin but I definitely expected more based on his play in high school and even his play last year. I still think he ends up as an all-time great. I just expected him to be an all-time great for more than one season. That's what I thought that difference between him and Jett would be

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if goodwin would have been what some of you are now opining your disappointment he didnt reach, he would be gone this year to the nba.   i for one never compared goodwin to larry hughes as some of you apparently were expecting.  

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2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

this.   the point is it is way too early in goodwin's career to make him out to be oscar robertson or closer to seke barentine.   let the guy play the games.   no one dogged jett like goodwin has been maligned here as of late and jett ended up being an all time great.   there is a lot of time for goodwin to do the same or not.  

If Goodwin was a spring recruit, ranked #339 in the country that nobody had heard of we wouldn't be talking about him nearly as much.  But he isn't.  Far from it.  But yet you want them to be held to the same lowered expectations.  Unrealistic.  

High expectations are the price of being a blue chip recruit.  I've explained why Goodwin isn't meeting our scoring expectations.  It's not his fault.  It's our fault for believing the hype and not closely examining his game. 

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16 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If Goodwin was a spring recruit, ranked #339 in the country that nobody had heard of we wouldn't be talking about him nearly as much.  But he isn't.  Far from it.  But yet you want them to be held to the same lowered expectations.  Unrealistic.  

High expectations are the price of being a blue chip recruit.  I've explained why Goodwin isn't meeting our scoring expectations.  It's not his fault.  It's our fault for believing the hype and that not closely examining his game. 

i have no problem with hype.and expectations.  but even expectations have to be realistic.   we have freshmen on the roster that cant even justify 10 minutes a game.   no one is upset with that.   

plenty of past billikens played sparingly in their early years and then became hof billikens   jeff luechtifeld, not just jett, but the same can be said of mccall from his class.  sloan wasnt much till he became a junior.  we could go on.   

goodwin starts, is trusted with the ball  pound for pound and inch by inch one of the best rebounders we've ever seen.   but folks now want to write him off as a fail.   sad and disappointing.   maybe our fans dont deserve good recruits if that kind of pressure is going to be laid on their feet.  

seems like a big part of the fanbase wants to give ford a pass for our recent woes and then blame the likes of goodwin.  a lot of what goodwin accomplishes also goes through ford as well.   i just dont get what the heck is going on with the mindset of the fandom these days.   

 

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1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

i have no problem with hype.and expectations.  but even expectations have to be realistic.   we have freshmen on the roster that cant even justify 10 minutes a game.   no one is upset with that.   

plenty of past billikens played sparingly in their early years and then became hof billikens   jeff luechtifeld, not just jett, but the same can be said of mccall from his class.  sloan wasnt much till he became a junior.  we could go on.   

goodwin starts, is trusted with the ball  pound for pound and inch by inch one of the best rebounders we've ever seen.   but folks now want to write him off as a fail.   sad and disappointing.   maybe our fans dont deserve good recruits if that kind of pressure is going to be laid on their feet.  

Come on, nobody is saying that.

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1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

i have no problem with hype.and expectations.  but even expectations have to be realistic.   we have freshmen on the roster that cant even justify 10 minutes a game.   no one is upset with that.   

plenty of past billikens played sparingly in their early years and then became hof billikens   jeff luechtifeld, not just jett, but the same can be said of mccall from his class.  sloan wasnt much till he became a junior.  we could go on.   

goodwin starts, is trusted with the ball  pound for pound and inch by inch one of the best rebounders we've ever seen.   but folks now want to write him off as a fail.   sad and disappointing.   maybe our fans dont deserve good recruits if that kind of pressure is going to be laid on their feet.  

Slam dunk

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30 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i look forward to your return to fairly apologize for your horrible assessment in two years.   

I'm not going to apologize for pointing out Goodwin's been a disappointment in 2018-19, but I will be glad to reverse course and give him his due in 2 weeks or 2 months or 2 years if he should morph into the scorer we thought he could be.

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The lack of shooting surrounding Goodwin does him no favors. He’s been dealing with driving lanes that are perpetually clogged and rarely has a true 1v1 finishing opportunity at the basket. His 3-point stroke looks a lot better this year but still has a long way to go. I think we should be excited about how much room for improvement there is for Goodwin, considering he’s already a very valuable player. That said, he is unlikely to ever be a truly dominant scorer which is something most people seem ready to accept.

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49 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

The Bills were picked to win the A10, and Goodwin and Bess were preseason 2nd team all A10, w/ French 3rd team.

Bess is playing like a 1st team all A10 and POY candidate. French has been a mild disappointment, but is trending up (FT shooting notwithstanding) since the start of A10 play.

Goodwin in the 8 conference games is shooting 34.3% from the floor (2.9 made FG per game on 8.4 attempts).

Those are the facts.

Have you been drinking Fudd, Duff Man?  Other than the FT shooting I don't know how you can say French has been disappointing.  He plays hard all game, logs lots of minutes, rebounds hard, blocks shots, and shows great passing ability.

He essentially gets double teamed every time he gets the ball and still has managed to move the ball better than most of our other players.  Yes, the FT shooting is terrible but that can be fixed.  I am as excited about French as I was before the season.  I expect great things in his future.

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11 minutes ago, Matty Light said:

Have you been drinking Fudd, Duff Man?  Other than the FT shooting I don't know how you can say French has been disappointing.  He plays hard all game, logs lots of minutes, rebounds hard, blocks shots, and shows great passing ability.

He essentially gets double teamed every time he gets the ball and still has managed to move the ball better than most of our other players.  Yes, the FT shooting is terrible but that can be fixed.  I am as excited about French as I was before the season.  I expect great things in his future.

On the year, French's stats are very similar to his freshman year - worse FG% and more rebounds, but very similar. Like I said, he's been trending up since the start of A10 play (and the departure of CG), but again, his FT shooting truly limits his potential as a scorer. I think most people expected him to build on, not replicate his freshman year.

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2 hours ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Maybe I have changed my mind and no longer drink the koolaid of recruiting? There is no roster I would have switched with in the A10 at the beginning of the season. Losing at home to Richmond is the catalyst for a change of heart. We are 14-7 when we should be 17-4. I legitimately think other coaches could have taken our roster to top 25. We have one of the worst offenses I have ever seen. 

How much longer are we going to say “at least the recruiting is good” 

But, most other coaches wouldn't have our roster, because they wouldn't have been able to recruit them.  Not saying I'm agreeing with your other points.  Just saying that you can't assume that other coaches would have had this teams talent to begin with.

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People are applying upperclassmen expectations to a pair of sophomores (one of which missed a chunk of his freshman year).

This is only because we don’t have other performing upperclassmen beyond Bess to lean on.

If you want to be disappointed, look at the performance of two fifth-year seniors in Isabell and Foreman.

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1 hour ago, AGB91 said:

Consider the following coaches.

Buddy Brehmer

Bob Polk

Randy Albrecht

Ron Coleman

Ron Ekker

Lorenzo Romar

Brad Soderberg

Jim Crews

Thanks

 I'll take Travis Ford

Ah, you left out the great one, Rick Majerus.

Back to what's wrong with this team. The first player Rick went after was a PG, and he got a great one in Kwamain.  I'll maintain that our biggest problem is we don't have a true PG. JGood is a PG in training. Put him back at the 2 or the 3 next year and tell him to work on his outside shot all summer. If he can take 500 FT's after a practice, he ought to be able to shoot a combo of 500 3's and mid range shots during the summer. The biggest flaw in his game is he can't effing hit anything that isn't a layup or a jam. At the 2 or the 3 he could be a lot like Jett and/or Evans since he's so good on the boards and getting to the rim.

It would be nice to see French develop a shot from 10-12 feet out but not as critical as fixing his FT problem, since he gets hacked so much. Until he gets to the 60% level he's a liability at the end of a tight game. Hard to say that a guy w/ 7 double doubles is a liability but the facts speak for themselves.

Again this team has a glaring need for a true PG. It's kind of ironic since Ford was such a great PG at UK one would think he'd have gone hard after a top 40 pg wanting to mentor him. Maybe, hopefully, Yuri is the answer here. Yes we know he's not a great scorer, but with the guys coming in next year, ie Perkins, Jimmerson, and Hargrove who have put up big numbers,  we don't need him to average double figures in PPG only in APG.

Next year is going to be like a rebuilding year given all our departures. I still would like to see us land a JUCO big, or even a serviceable GT big. I know some believe Wellmer still has a shot at coming back to help French and Hankton man the inside. I'll believe it when I see it. If our FR show potential to be legit D1 contributors, it would appear 20-21 could be our return to the dance year. Just too many new moving parts to install next year.

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4 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Ah, you left out the great one, Rick Majerus.

Back to what's wrong with this team. The first player Rick went after was a PG, and he got a great one in Kwamain.  I'll maintain that our biggest problem is we don't have a true PG. JGood is a PG in training. Put him back at the 2 or the 3 next year and tell him to work on his outside shot all summer. If he can take 500 FT's after a practice, he ought to be able to shoot a combo of 500 3's and mid range shots during the summer. The biggest flaw in his game is he can't effing hit anything that isn't a layup or a jam. At the 2 or the 3 he could be a lot like Jett and/or Evans since he's so good on the boards and getting to the rim.

It would be nice to see French develop a shot from 10-12 feet out but not as critical as fixing his FT problem, since he gets hacked so much. Until he gets to the 60% level he's a liability at the end of a tight game. Hard to say that a guy w/ 7 double doubles is a liability but the facts speak for themselves.

Again this team has a glaring need for a true PG. It's kind of ironic since Ford was such a great PG at UK one would think he'd have gone hard after a top 40 pg wanting to mentor him. Maybe, hopefully, Yuri is the answer here. Yes we know he's not a great scorer, but with the guys coming in next year, ie Perkins, Jimmerson, and Hargrove who have put up big numbers,  we don't need him to average double figures in PPG only in APG.

Next year is going to be like a rebuilding year given all our departures. I still would like to see us land a JUCO big, or even a serviceable GT big. I know some believe Wellmer still has a shot at coming back to help French and Hankton man the inside. I'll believe it when I see it. If our FR show potential to be legit D1 contributors, it would appear 20-21 could be our return to the dance year. Just too many new moving parts to install next year.

I didn't leave him out.

Majerus is the only coach that I would take over Travis.

I left Grawer out because Rich along with Gray and Douglass were the saviors of the program IMHO

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2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

tell me what jett's stats were his freshman and sophomore years.   thanks i will hang up and listen.  

"Sorry, you cannot add any more reactions today."

 

+1

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4 minutes ago, AGB91 said:

I didn't leave him out.

Majerus is the only coach that I would take over Travis.

I left Grawer out because Rich along with Gray and Douglass were the saviors of the program IMHO

Sorry, missed your point.

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Just now, slu72 said:

Sorry, missed your point.

Should have caught it because you left out Spoon as well.

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10 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

I’m really lost to how this thread is going after Goodwin 

I cited him as one of the factors why the team is not living up to the preseason expectations and people don't want to hear it.

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Goodwin contributes in many ways that make him very valuable to the team.  Guys are down on him, because his shooting isn't up to par.  It isn't.  It has to get better.  However, his contribution is far more valuable than his shooting percentage.  He will continue to improve and will be a glue guy these next two years, if he is not already.  If he can improve his shot (which he has shown signs of this season) and he can improve his decision making (haven't seen that yet, but still hoping), then he will be an important player for us these next two years.

Also, I wish I could find a video of the Majerus teams to show to Coach Ford one particular play.  Does anyone else recall times when Jett, McCall, or Evans would beat their man off the dribble and head to the basket, then Ellis or Loe would back their guy down in the lane holding a hand up to pretend they were calling for a pass, all the while just illegally screening the heck out of their defender, then our guy with the ball would go in for an easy layup?  If we put that play into our offense, it would get Goodwin an extra 6-8 points a game while only drawing maybe one illegal screen call about once every three games.

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