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Glorydays2013

OT: Ford’s seat getting warm

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2 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Goodwin averages 7 rebounds per game as a point guard. Nearly averages a double double (as a PG...) and he does everything and anything to win games. He has the only triple double in program history. From everything I've heard he's a great leader and a vocal supporter of our program. He was the first and main reason for this turn around and pulling our program out the shitter after Crews ruined it. It's people like him that have recruits wanting to come play for SLU. Can't believe this board is calling him out after everything he has gone through here. It's disgusting. Athletes have bad games let the kid play. 

Ford needs to ramp up the tempo. Problem is we only have 8 players now so it's hard to sustain that for a whole game. Once again Ford is handcuffed by things that are out of his control. Gloryravs take a hike. This is exactly what we warned you about when you were talking about how this is the best team SLU has ever had. 

It's disgusting to point out Goodwin isn't able to get buckets in crunch time?

It's not about a bad game. It's a 47 game sample where he's shooting 38% from the floor.

I appreciate everything he's done, but if we're trying to figure out why the team that was predicted to win the A10 is headed towards another disappointing season, you have to look at who is underachieving, and while perhaps the expectations were unrealistic for Goodwin, the reality is he has not lived up to them.

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33 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Maybe I have changed my mind and no longer drink the koolaid of recruiting? There is no roster I would have switched with in the A10 at the beginning of the season. Losing at home to Richmond is the catalyst for a change of heart. We are 14-7 when we should be 17-4. I legitimately think other coaches could have taken our roster to top 25. We have one of the worst offenses I have ever seen

How much longer are we going to say “at least the recruiting is good” 

This may be a bad offense, but I will take this one any day over any of the offenses with Ash Yacoubou on it.  Those offenses were just as bad but without a Bess or French that could make buckets.  It wasn't that long ago.

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Hey Trebek, give me 400 for "Titles on Bills.com I never saw coming"

Ford is no where near the hot seat. Hasn't attendance skyrocketed since he took over after the Crew's slumps? We also got votes in the AP this season, which to me is a sign of progress. 

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Duff Man! I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding Goodwin. It’s nothing personal, just facts.

Lately I’ve noticed he seems to make stupid fouls at crunch time that cost us points at crucial moments.

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1 minute ago, Duff Man said:

It's disgusting to point out Goodwin isn't able to get buckets in crunch time?

It's not about a bad game. It's a 47 game sample where he's shooting 38% from the floor.

I appreciate everything he's done, but if we're trying to figure out why the team that was predicted to win the A10 is headed towards another disappointing season, you have to look at who is underachieving, and while perhaps the expectations were unrealistic for Goodwin, the reality is he has not lived up to them.

The reason is we lost a probable starting center and a top 100 recruit and now DJ Foreman is starting. Has nothing to do with Goodwin. 

We have also had some injuries this year that have caused some issues. Hankton being out, Jacobs out now, Wiley being hurt and now having to work his way back into shape. 

If you want to put this on Goodwin have fun but you're just flat out wrong. He'll make some bonehead plays but he moves on keeps clapping and trying to bring energy to his team. Starting to lose track of whose trolling and whose an actual fan here.

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1 hour ago, Duff Man said:

The factors for the underachieving are

1. Jordan Goodwin has not lived up to his billing

It's not fair to put everything on him, but the reality is he was a highly touted local recruit that was expected to be the next great Billikens guard. While he can do many things well, he's shooting 38% from the field (24.1% from 3) for his SLU career over 47 games. He was expected to be a go-to offensive scorer and shut down defender. He's neither, and I'm not sure how much improvement we can expect going forward.

 

 

tell me what jett's stats were his freshman and sophomore years.   thanks i will hang up and listen.  

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40 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Maybe I was wrong and overestimated 

FIFY

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no way i am ready to oust travis ford.   he's the best recruiter in history and deserves the time to get the roster right.   3-4 years isnt long enough especially with the damage inflicted by the unjustness of s2.   

it does bother me he rolled the dice on gordon with all the historical red flags that were out there, but i also recognize all the potential that gordon had and cant blame him for going for it.   gordon could have been anthony bonner II if he had his head on right and who wouldnt want that playing big for the billikens.  

ford's want to try to force an offensive style of play that does not suit his players abilities is very concerning though.   as hard as one tries the odds of getting a square peg in a round hole without damaging that hole is pretty bad odds.   we see the results imo.    

i do think we are bringing in a good group of recruits (even without knowing what we will get with the 4 yet to be filled) that should help a lot.   Will it be enough to replace the seniors leaving?

i actually think it will.   time will tell.  

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Consider the following coaches.

Buddy Brehmer

Bob Polk

Randy Albrecht

Ron Coleman

Ron Ekker

Lorenzo Romar

Brad Soderberg

Jim Crews

Thanks

 I'll take Travis Ford

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14 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

It's disgusting to point out Goodwin isn't able to get buckets in crunch time?

It's not about a bad game. It's a 47 game sample where he's shooting 38% from the floor.

I appreciate everything he's done, but if we're trying to figure out why the team that was predicted to win the A10 is headed towards another disappointing season, you have to look at who is underachieving, and while perhaps the expectations were unrealistic for Goodwin, the reality is he has not lived up to them.

Crunch time the ball is in Bess's hand not Goodwins. Maybe next year it will be and we will see how he reacts.

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As far as Goodwin goes you have to remember that he did not get to play or use our facilities a good portion of the second semester last year.

He is the least of our concerns.

I'll take a team of Goodwins and be successful.

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10 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

tell me what jett's stats were his freshman and sophomore years.   thanks i will hang up and listen.  

Here's Jett's 1st 2 seasons per 40min (not reflected in these stats, Jett was all 10 defensive team his soph season as a bench player)

image.thumb.png.c92185741cbccd0474cc3eecb0db3258.png

Here's Goodwins for a comparison, using per 40 min

image.thumb.png.83fed46b046caef1068217ca6e1ad979.png

 

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24 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Goodwin averages 7 rebounds per game as a point guard. Nearly averages a double double (as a PG...) and he does everything and anything to win games. He has the only triple double in program history. From everything I've heard he's a great leader and a vocal supporter of our program. He was the first and main reason for this turn around and pulling our program out the shitter after Crews ruined it. It's people like him that have recruits wanting to come play for SLU. Can't believe this board is calling him out after everything he has gone through here. It's disgusting. Athletes have bad games let the kid play. 

I want Goodwin on my team all day every day.  But the expectations we had for him were based on him being a top 50 recruit.  Top 50 guard recruits in mid-major conferences score.  That's his Achilles heel right now because he's really a 6'3 small forward trying to play point guard.  Once you understand that then his scoring difficulties make more sense.  He doesn't have point guard handles.  He doesn't have a jump shot. 

We believed the hype because he's a blood and guts player and we love guys who leave everything on the floor.  But he's not the answer at point guard or shooting guard.  Once the point guard and the shooters get here, Goodwin needs to log the majority of his minutes at the 3.  He will still get his double doubles.  Because he's Jordan fuggin Goodwin. 

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7 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Here's Jett's 1st 2 seasons per 40min (not reflected in these stats, Jett was all 10 defensive team his soph season as a bench player)

image.thumb.png.c92185741cbccd0474cc3eecb0db3258.png

Here's Goodwins for a comparison, using per 40 min

image.thumb.png.83fed46b046caef1068217ca6e1ad979.png

 

so they look pretty similar.  goodwin's a little better it appears.   save me the time.   i assume you were dogging jett and inferring he was a waste during his sophomore season?

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7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I want Goodwin on my team all day every day.  But the expectations we had for him were based on him being a top 50 recruit.  Top 50 guard recruits in mid-major conferences score.  That's his Achilles heel right now because he's really a 6'3 small forward trying to play point guard.  Once you understand that then his scoring difficulties make more sense.  He doesn't have point guard handles.  He doesn't have a jump shot. 

We believed the hype because he's a blood and guts player and we love guys who leave everything on the floor.  But he's not the answer at point guard or shooting guard.  Once the point guard and the shooters get here, Goodwin needs to log the majority of his minutes at the 3.  He will still get his double doubles.  Because he's Jordan fuggin Goodwin. 

Was Jordair jett a 6'1 SF?

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6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

so they look pretty similar.  goodwin's a little better it appears.   save me the time.   i assume you were dogging jett and inferring he was a waste during his sophomore season?

Goodwin has slightly higher production with a worse shooting percentage.

Duff did not imply that Goodwin is a waste.  Maybe you inferred it, but he didn't get close to saying that.

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1 minute ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Was Jordair jett a 6'1 SF?

Jett had better handles than Goodwin.  He had some shake and bake to his game.  That's not who Goodwin is.

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7 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Was Jordair jett a 6'1 SF?

well when he first came to the billikens i sure as heck didnt consider him a point guard.   he as a wild animal horrible with the ball plenty of bad decisions.  he was strong and athletic just like goodwin.   so the comparison imo is very easy.  

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5 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Jett had better handles than Goodwin.  He had some shake and bake to his game.  That's not who Goodwin is.

i believe you are remembering the junior senior jett.   the fresh soph jett was a mess with the ball.   

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8 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Goodwin has slightly higher production with a worse shooting percentage.

Duff did not imply that Goodwin is a waste.  Maybe you inferred it, but he didn't get close to saying that.

he pretty much said goodwin is the fault of the team.   

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7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Jett had better handles than Goodwin.  He had some shake and bake to his game.  That's not who Goodwin is.

He also had more turnovers and less assists according to the stats above. I'd be willing to bet they were fairly similar at this stage in there careers. Jett was also fortunate enough to play on some solid teams. I'd also be willing to bet Goodwin develops into a more well rounded player than Jett by his Senior year.

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Just now, billiken_roy said:

so they look pretty similar.  goodwin's a little better it appears.   save me the time.   i assume you were dogging jett and inferring he was a waste during his sophomore season?

Goodwin's 2nd year looks a lot like Jett's freshman year. Goodwin gets more rebounds and takes more shots. Jett is more efficient and a better defender.

Jett's soph year the Billikens were 34th in KenPom Offensive Efficiency. Majerus used him in a role where he was the 2nd wave (w/ Cody) that tightened the defensive intensity, and usually was on the floor at the end of the game, but with Conklin and Kwamain (and Evans and Ellis), Jett was not depended on for crunch time scoring. 

This team badly needs a guy who they can just give the ball, and he can beat his man off the dribble and score. I expected Goodwin to be that type of player at this stage of his development, but he's not there at the moment.

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3 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i believe you are remembering the junior senior jett.   the fresh soph jett was a mess with the ball.   

Jett always had the shake and bake game.  What he didn't have as an underclassman was good decision making.  He was an elusive player.  Goodwin is not.

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4 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

 

This team badly needs a guy who they can just give the ball, and he can beat his man off the dribble and score. I expected Goodwin to be that type of player at this stage of his development, but he's not there at the moment.

See the thing is.... They aren't matching man to man cause we can't shoot. Everybody is zoning us up. Much harder to beat your man when you have 2 more waiting for you.

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13 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Jett always had the shake and bake game.  What he didn't have as an underclassman was good decision making.  He was an elusive player.  Goodwin is not.

this.   the point is it is way too early in goodwin's career to make him out to be oscar robertson or closer to seke barentine.   let the guy play the games.   no one dogged jett like goodwin has been maligned here as of late and jett ended up being an all time great.   there is a lot of time for goodwin to do the same or not.  

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