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OT: Ford’s seat getting warm


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2 hours ago, Taj79 said:

The jumps to conclusions here are amazing.  How long you been around Clock?  I know it's been a while but you can't possibly believe Bess going to the NBA is going to help Ford's recruiting do you?  

 

No, wrong, no.  It is HUGE when a coach can point to HIS players in the NBA.  Witness, 5 star guard Anthony Edwards just picked Georgia for his college.  Why?  Here is what he said :

Edwards cited Georgia coach Tom Crean's relationship with two NBA stars as a factor of why he picked UGA. 

"Two of my favorite players, Dwyane Wade and Victor Oladipo, were coached by Tom Crean," Edwards told 247Sports' Evan Daniels after announcing his choice on CBS Sports HQ. "He's a great coach with player development. When I went to a game, I felt the fans and the gym, everybody showing love, it felt like I was home."

Plus, one of the reasons Goodwin stated as to why he came to STL was Ford helping Smart get into the NBA.  Grady has stated that one of the reasons he went to Davidson was to follow Curry's journey into the NBA.

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We'll agree then to disagree Hoosier.  I know Justin Love came to SLU to play WITH Larry Hughes but then Hughes bailed.  But not a single player I know of came to SLU because Hughes came to SLU to play for Spoon.  Mo Jeffers left no mark for Romar.  Two years after Bonner left, Grawer was canned.  Who came to Okie State to play for Ford because of Smart?  Name me some names.  The kid going to Georgia is from Georgia.  Great he likes Wade and Olidipo -- two all-stars.  Crean got canned from Marquette AND Indiana.  I'd offer that every kid ponding a basketball thinks he's headed to the NBA -- coach irrespective.  Anybody want to say where Reggie Jackson went to school or who his coach was?  Or what team he's even on?  He must be great .. he's making $17 million this year.  I never heard of him.

Yes, I will concede that some folks like the example you use say what they said.  But this is a five-star Georgia kid going to Georgia.  Not exactly your normal course of work for such a player.  These guys go to Duke and North Carolina and Kentucky.  I think the kid is reaching for an explanation.  Which is also fine. 

Funny, Crean has also been canned from Marquette and Indiana for NOT winning. 

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1 minute ago, Taj79 said:

 Anybody want to say where Reggie Jackson went to school or who his coach was?  Or what team he's even on?  He must be great .. he's making $17 million this year.  I never heard of him.

 

Boston College. What's my prize?

Naming NBA players' colleges is my super power

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The sky is not falling by a long shot. We have useful talent going forward & I like our recruiting going forward.  It appears that we have addressed our deficiencies that stand out this year/ lack of a real point guard & shooting.  We have made real inroads to local talent.  More to come. Hoping for NIT this year & greater things going forward 

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Taj, respectfully my rebuttale is very close to Hoosier’s. 

Also you’re very very very wrong that Crean got canned, and then took over Frickin Indiana. He left Marquette to take his dream job after having dominating years with Wade and co. 

Please dig up Goodwins articles on his recruitment, Marcus Smart is brought up almost every time. 

All I said was it will jumpstart our recruitment. If you for one second believe that sending guys to the NBA doesn’t help recruiting players, I have a one way spaceship ticket to Mars I want to sell you. Seriously I don’t understand that line of thought at all. Look at all the major recruiting schools and what they have in common. Hint: it’s a history of sending guys to the NBA. 

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28 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

We'll agree then to disagree Hoosier.  I know Justin Love came to SLU to play WITH Larry Hughes but then Hughes bailed.  But not a single player I know of came to SLU because Hughes came to SLU to play for Spoon.  Mo Jeffers left no mark for Romar.  Two years after Bonner left, Grawer was canned.  Who came to Okie State to play for Ford because of Smart?  Name me some names.  The kid going to Georgia is from Georgia.  Great he likes Wade and Olidipo -- two all-stars.  Crean got canned from Marquette AND Indiana.  I'd offer that every kid ponding a basketball thinks he's headed to the NBA -- coach irrespective.  Anybody want to say where Reggie Jackson went to school or who his coach was?  Or what team he's even on?  He must be great .. he's making $17 million this year.  I never heard of him.

Yes, I will concede that some folks like the example you use say what they said.  But this is a five-star Georgia kid going to Georgia.  Not exactly your normal course of work for such a player.  These guys go to Duke and North Carolina and Kentucky.  I think the kid is reaching for an explanation.  Which is also fine. 

Funny, Crean has also been canned from Marquette and Indiana for NOT winning. 

Reggie Jackson went to Arizon State. He originally signed on to play football but switched to baseball after his freshman year.

His first year he set the single season homer run record.

He was the second overall selection in the 1966 draft by the KC athletics.

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26 minutes ago, dlarry said:

Reggie Jackson went to Arizon State. He originally signed on to play football but switched to baseball after his freshman year.

His first year he set the single season homer run record.

He was the second overall selection in the 1966 draft by the KC athletics.

Great!

Oh, that Reggie Jackson!

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From what I can tell after checking out teh Googlez, Ford frequently compared Goodwin to Marcus Smart in interviews.  I haven't found anything in which Goodwin said he came to SLU because Ford developed Marcus Smart.

Not sure if this qualifies as a Pearson's Grandma situation or not.

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

 

Funny, Crean has also been canned from Marquette and Indiana for NOT winning. 

Crean's a dick, but he got hired away from MU to go to IU. IU would never have hired a fired coach from a school they believe is beneath their lineage.

Back to why Crean's a dick. He threw his GA team under the bus after they just lost their 8th game in a row. He said something like I should have made some cuts when I took this job, as in I'm running a bunch of you guys off the team. Then was humiliated into offering his players an apology. And before someone says Majerus said the same thing, he didn't. What he said was I didn't pick them and they didn't pick me. And he did run off a bunch of Brad's recruits to make room for his recruits; kids that come to mind are the Mitchell kid from ESL, Knollmeyer, and Dustin McGuire. Rick's comment about who picked who came up after he we had a rough stretch and the left overs, notably Lisch and Lidell, didn't seem to be adapting to his style.

Crean also made similar comments to his first year IU team to fans on the sidelines during games. An alum I know heard him turn to the fans and say at one time in a game, Where did Davis get these guys from, a CYO league? He was not well liked in the Hoosier state, and damn lucky he landed at UGA. See what one final 4 will do for your resume.

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10 minutes ago, wgstl said:

This is awsome 

 

 

 

 

Give him a number 5 jersey and say Gordon's had a change of heart. The man has not gone to seed like a lot of retired NBA'ers. He looks like he can play. Anyone else think Bonner would make a good AC for the bigs and help in recruiting?

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Book me an aisle seat on that spaceship Accord.  NO ... I do not believe Javon Bess making an NBA roster will add ANYTHING to Ford's recruiting.  Just like adding Hughes did nothing for Spoon's recruiting.  Yeah, we all know the references of Goodwin to Smart.  Did Hasahn French come to be the next Marcus Smart?  Did Thor?  Did Gordon?  Did Javon Bess?  Tramiane Isabell?   Goodwin maybe and that was the extent of it.  But Goodwin wasn't a McD's All -American and remains a huge work in progress.  Kids sign with programs that are on TV and that everyone sees as they make their way to millions of dollars.  Kentucky.  Duke.  North Carolina.  Short of that, it's conferences, loving ones with their own networks.  The Big Ten.  The ACC.  The Big East.  The SEC.  Notice no one goes West?  Not in the right time zone.  No one sees you.  Carte'Are Gordon is going to DePaul to get to the next level.  DePaul?  C'mon, man.  The kid from Georgia, the first 5-star recruit to sign with Georgia, went there as a stunner over the usual blue bloods.  Tom Crean or ......... is Tom Crean's association with two similar type players a viable excuse.  Nobody goes to Georgia for basketball.  Nobody since Dominque Wilkins. 

Can you name me any other Ford stud who made the NBA?  I couldn't believe it when I found maybe three, all of which will require research to name.  None were more than a cup o' coffee type.  If Musselman puts kids in the NBA soon, Nevada will be the powerhouse of the west.  Your statement of "all the major recruiting schools have a history of putting kids in the pros" is ludicrous."  It's a generalization at best that is used to support your generalization on Bess being in the NBA and what that means to us. 

We have only seen extended success in this program when the coach had a system, could evaluate talent, and recruited said talent to that system.  Douglass and Gray took us nowhere.  Bonner took us nowhere,  Spoon took us nowhere.  Claggs & Company were a brief illusion as was Rick & Company.  Hughes, arguably the SLU legend, took us nowhere.  And when all were done, we were left crawling back up to the surface again.  I have long harped about sustainability and that is what Ford HAS to do now.  No quick fixes.  No short cuts.  Balance the classes.  Recruit to your system.  Install your system.  Develop kids just under the radar, maybe get a local stud or two.  Rule the A10 and become desirable -- both as a program and as a coach on the uptick.  Some schools with guys in the NBA:  UC Santa Barbara, Wheeling Jesuit, Holy Cross, Bucknell and Davidson.  And Davidson is the giveaway.  I guarantee you, no one is panting to get to Wheeling Jesuit because so-and-so got to the NBA. 

You don't understand my logic because you haven't lived it as I have.  The only times this program was good was when local kids ran the show (Douglass, Gray & Bonner/Claggett, Highmark) and when the maestro squatted on the sidelines.  This is the best I've ever seen SLU recruiting.  Foreman.  Bess.  Henriquez, Goodwin.  French.  Gordon.  Isabell.  Hargrove.  Collins,. Perkins.  Jimerson.  Just what are you aiming to jump start?  The rocketship?

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2 hours ago, Box and Won said:

From what I can tell after checking out teh Googlez, Ford frequently compared Goodwin to Marcus Smart in interviews.  I haven't found anything in which Goodwin said he came to SLU because Ford developed Marcus Smart.

Not sure if this qualifies as a Pearson's Grandma situation or not.

I think what would qualify as “Peason’s Grandma” would be the reason Gordon and Thor left.

 

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Taj, a reminder that almost zero top recruits came to SLU before Ford. Now we have rosters full of them. Ford is averaging about 3 top 150 players a year. The kids magically coming here because of a new coach isn’t random. They want to get to the next level. 

You make no sense when you say that Ford putting Bess in the NBA won’t help our recruiting. 

You think Davidson would get the players they had if Steph Curry didn’t get involved after he blew up?

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2 hours ago, slu72 said:

Crean's a dick, but he got hired away from MU to go to IU. IU would never have hired a fired coach from a school they believe is beneath their lineage.

Back to why Crean's a dick. He threw his GA team under the bus after they just lost their 8th game in a row. He said something like I should have made some cuts when I took this job, as in I'm running a bunch of you guys off the team. Then was humiliated into offering his players an apology. And before someone says Majerus said the same thing, he didn't. What he said was I didn't pick them and they didn't pick me. And he did run off a bunch of Brad's recruits to make room for his recruits; kids that come to mind are the Mitchell kid from ESL, Knollmeyer, and Dustin McGuire. Rick's comment about who picked who came up after he we had a rough stretch and the left overs, notably Lisch and Lidell, didn't seem to be adapting to his style.

Crean also made similar comments to his first year IU team to fans on the sidelines during games. An alum I know heard him turn to the fans and say at one time in a game, Where did Davis get these guys from, a CYO league? He was not well liked in the Hoosier state, and damn lucky he landed at UGA. See what one final 4 will do for your resume.

rickma ran plenty of his own players off as well.  he was the king of creaming a roster. 

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3 hours ago, Box and Won said:

From what I can tell after checking out teh Googlez, Ford frequently compared Goodwin to Marcus Smart in interviews.  I haven't found anything in which Goodwin said he came to SLU because Ford developed Marcus Smart.

Not sure if this qualifies as a Pearson's Grandma situation or not.

Grandma had a good low post game back in the day.

 

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1 hour ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

Taj, a reminder that almost zero top recruits came to SLU before Ford. Now we have rosters full of them. Ford is averaging about 3 top 150 players a year. The kids magically coming here because of a new coach isn’t random. They want to get to the next level. 

You make no sense when you say that Ford putting Bess in the NBA won’t help our recruiting. 

You think Davidson would get the players they had if Steph Curry didn’t get involved after he blew up?

Rosters full of top recruits and the Billikens still can't win the A-10?

How does that work?

 

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6 hours ago, Taj79 said:

The jumps to conclusions here are amazing.  How long you been around Clock?  I know it's been a while but you can't possibly believe Bess going to the NBA is going to help Ford's recruiting do you?  What did Larry Hughes bring this fine institution when he went to the NBA?  How about Mo Jeffers?  Willie Reed?  Anthony Bonner?  Absolutely nothing!  And then there goes Bess.  If anyone gets Bess to the NBA, it'll be Bess and Bess alone.  A kid in the gym at 0h-dark-thirty each morning tells you right there the desire is internal.  Nothing Ford did for that.  Then Bess tries to lead by example --- anyone else coming in as same time?  I hear Goodwin, maybe Thatch.  So we'll see.  Sorry, good sir, Bess to the NBA means absolutely nothing to Saint Louie Ewey in terms of plussing up recruiting stature. 

I agree.  Don't confuse me with other "Clock" on this topic - or should I say nearly any other topic.

6 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Your statement about kids signing with coaches is right on, however what did WE do to Majerus and Ford?  How did WE saddle them with two Title IX problems?  Where did WE place unrealistic expectations on them?  Where do WE nip at their heels.  And are you advocating SLU look a different way or act irresponsibly where Title IX cases are just to be like so-called P5 schools?  I hope not; I always thought you above that handball-with-the-curb kind of style.  I don't understand the statement on being committed to being a Top 50 program and how these previous statements make us better than that.  Better than what?  What are you advocating here?  Not arguing ---- just confused.

We as in SLU.   We/SLU/Fr. Biondi ran off ran off Craig Upchurch because our academics are superior to the NCAA standards.  We/SLU/Fr. Biondi nickled and dimed Spoonhour over ice cream reimbursements b/c  Spoon and any other coach would never leave SLU, right?   We/SLU/Fr. Biondi went back on promises to RM for chartered flights needed as much for RM's health and less school missed for the boys as much as for comfort.  Who needs a hall of fame coach anyway, right?  We just hire another guy like RM, right?  We/SLU/MBMs who think we can go out and get a more attractive coach ... all b/c the really good coaches grow up wanting to coach here at SLU??   Duke, Kentucky, Indiana and SLU, right? 

And no, from my knowledge of the Situation 1 and 2, our boys were present, were participants, one of them should not have posted the video, other mistakes made... but I don't believe the punishment fit the "crime."   Again, if these guys committed rape or any other heinous act -- I would have lead the charge to get them off campus.   But KM was allowed to come back.... Goodwin was allowed to come back... but not the other 3.... Anyone want to remind me why SLU moved our three (3) boys back onto campus housing at this time last year just before expelling them?  Anyone want to remind me why dangerous, sexual predators, walked the campus, went to class, practiced with the team... And from my understanding, the outside law firm hired to conduct the investigation agreed that expulsion did not fit the circumstances. Or does SLU simply have higher morality standards just like it did with academic standards and Craig Upchurch?  Grawer must have been a win at all cost guy too!  If so, I am in good company.

6 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Didn't Ford get a five-year contract when he signed here?  Isn't five typical?  I fully understand the growth process --- culling the chaff from the previous regime, laying the groundwork for your particular building, maintaining stability and sustainability going forward.  After demonstrated progress, an extension gets signed.  Has Ford demonstrated progress?  Absolutely.  Has it been the progress we all wanted?  Absolutely not.  Why?  Because of all the things you describe however, I happen to believe that college coaches face undue pressure in the game to win and win NOW.  I think in Year One, Ford evaluated what he had.  For Year Two, he took some calculated risks ..... they worked with Bess and Foreman ... they did not with Henriquez and Graves.  That failure also robbed us of a possible other player in Bishop.  On to Year Three.  More calculated risks ... Santos, Gordon, and Thor.  All failures.

We are still paying for the loss of Henriquez, Graves and Bishop this year.   Situation 2 was not just last year -- it is last year and this year.  Plus, we missed a player in Year 2 while holding scholarship on Henriquez while waiting for him to become eligible last year.  And Situation is next year too - with the loss of Graves who would be a Senior next year.

 

6 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Plus less-than-stellar results from GT mercenaries Isabell and WIley.  In a typical five-year plan, Years Four and Five are supposed to be the salad days.  Laying the red carpet out for the extension signing.  Yet it feels like we are back to square one due to the failure of the calculated risks.  The bad news is Ford doesn't get to go "oops, let's start over."  Now he's got to make it happen with maybe a slightly different glide path with a shorter time period in which to do it.  WE had nothing to do with that ..... HE did. 

I get the desire and demands to win now -- not to wait.    All I would say is that an owner requested certain building materials be used, that the contractor ordered them and had to wait a year for them to arrive, and then after waiting a year for them to arrive, the contractor began to use these materials before being told "No - there is an unexpected change order" and you cannot use those materials anymore, then additional time should be added to the contract.  Also, if the contractor goes to Home Depot (last minute) to find replacements (any last minute replacements) and these last minute replacements (Isabell, Wiley and Thor) don't turn out so good, then is it fair to blame the contractor and demand --- why is my building not ready?    if if so, it is not fair for the contractor to reply, "Well, assh**le Owner, it is because of your change order? Your building will be ready soon but get off my ass and give me some additional time to make your changes?"  If ordinarily, a head coach is given 4 to 5 years to turn a program around, then 5 to 6 years seems reasonable if unexpected change orders are imposed.

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Clock Tower:  sorry for the shortened 'Clock.'  Hard for an old guy to keep up.  Like multiple BillsBeliever.  I don't disagree with any of the immediate above and I will strive to do a better job in getting my Clocks set straight.

As to Clocktoweraccords2004 .................... about the only reason you are right is Top 150 ratings didn't go back that far.  Johnnie Parker Sr.  Ricky Frazier.  Monroe Douglass.  Roland Gray.  Mark Alcorn.  Anthony Bonner.  Anthony Jones.  Julian Winfield.  Erwin Claggett.  Scott Highmark.  H Waldman.  Larry Hughes.  Justin Tatum.  Matt Baniak.  Evan Pederson.  Jalen Johnson.  Reggie Bryant.  Dwayne Polk.  Kevin Lisch.  Jeff Harris.  Tommie Liddell III. Brent Thompson.  There is a long list of decent players coming to SLU long before Ford arrived.  And quite a few of these players play a role in recruiting even now.  Look at yesterday's tape on Bonner.  Hughes is a season ticket holder I think.  Claggett is always around.  Highmark does broadcasts.   

Larry Hughes was listed as high as the #2 recruit in the nation.  We got him.  For a year.  And very little else.  Javon Bess understands hard work and might be the greatest self-made player I have ever seen at SLU.  But if he goes off to LA, or Miami or San Antonio or Sacramento, ain't gonna matter.  Anthony Bonner went off to Sacramento and New York.  Benefits to the program?  Very little.  Right now, the only reason a kid will want to play for us and Ford is because Travis wins.  We haven't done that, have we?  Has he? 

You don't understand my thinking?  Simple ---- I've seen that false pretense before.  Only winning breeds winning.  That's my thinking.  Bess and the others are nice footnotes, nothing more.   Davidson doesn't get much IMO from Steph Curry.  Sure, maybe it was Grady due to Curry but the rest are nobodies.  They just fit McKillop's system.  

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