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OT: Ford’s seat getting warm


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56 minutes ago, EssEllYou said:

The problem I see is that we actually trend downward next year by trading Bess/Isabell for new freshman.  Goodwin/French will be the only offensive threats we get with an occasional good night from new freshman...no way that replaces throughout of Bess/TI.  If this holds true, we just might end up in the bottom of the pile next year.

I hope I'm wrong, but if we finish worse next year...he gone.

Agreeing with posts above but also find it odd to add Isabell into the big loss department.  He is a grad transfer so in theory we could find another grad transfer like that but mainly because I don't think he has been a catalyst to the offense.  His style hasn't really been a fit.  Bess will be a big loss but hoping/thinking that Perkins/Hargrove will be able to combine to fill in for his offense.  I don't see a downward trend next year, especially because I think Ford will be able to find some more talent this spring.  

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2 hours ago, EssEllYou said:

The problem I see is that we actually trend downward next year by trading Bess/Isabell for new freshman.  Goodwin/French will be the only offensive threats we get with an occasional good night from new freshman...no way that replaces throughout of Bess/TI.  If this holds true, we just might end up in the bottom of the pile next year.

I hope I'm wrong, but if we finish worse next year...he gone.

I love Bess, but I’d rather have to replace a wing rather than a dominant pg or center.  By all accounts, we have a juco that happens to be the same size as Bess and he can score.  We also get a true pg and a talented freshman wing.  Oh, we’re getting a lights out shooter who can score in multiple ways.  Bess is a stud, but thankfully he’s playing a position where we have multiple candidates to replace his production (plus other pieces that we’re currently missing).

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10 hours ago, EssEllYou said:

The problem I see is that we actually trend downward next year by trading Bess/Isabell for new freshman.  Goodwin/French will be the only offensive threats we get with an occasional good night from new freshman...no way that replaces throughout of Bess/TI.  If this holds true, we just might end up in the bottom of the pile next year.

I hope I'm wrong, but if we finish worse next year...he gone.

I rate this post as "wut?"

It is amusing to read that Isabell will be a huge loss.  There is a freshman named Yuri Collins that will cure our point guard ills and I guess you feel that Jacobs is a bust?

I guess you feel that Thatch and Hankton are a bust because you feel the team is so bad with these players, the  Billikens team next season will finish in the bottom half of the A10.

I guess you feel Hargrove, Collins and Jimmerson will be the be the occasional good night from the freshman?

I guess you feel Perkins who is one of the top scorers in JUCO will not score in double digits for the Billikens?

 

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1 minute ago, Cowboy said:

-let's tap the brakes a moment and recall our history with juco's, but this is CFord reaching into that pond, and I hope Perkins is A10 POY for 2 seasons but let's see what happens

History is irrelevant when you have a completely different coaching staff. People get caught up in “trading players”. What gets lost is that we’re going to have a completely different look to this team. We’re going to have a point guard(who I pray can come in and start right away) who can make the offense go and get the ball to players in much better spaces to score than we have now. shooters in Jimerson and Perkins. Volume scorers in Hargrove and Perkins. Hargrove will be lucky to have Perkins to take some of that pressure off of him. The points are going to come by committee instead of one guy carrying the load. Those shooters are going to open up the lane for Hasahn French to work inside.(and by the grace of God if Welmer can come back Hasahn’s life down low will be so much easier. Will we be looking at a tourney team I don’t want to get ahead of myself. This team will be very good.

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40 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

History is irrelevant when you have a completely different coaching staff. People get caught up in “trading players”. What gets lost is that we’re going to have a completely different look to this team. We’re going to have a point guard(who I pray can come in and start right away) who can make the offense go and get the ball to players in much better spaces to score than we have now. shooters in Jimerson and Perkins. Volume scorers in Hargrove and Perkins. Hargrove will be lucky to have Perkins to take some of that pressure off of him. The points are going to come by committee instead of one guy carrying the load. Those shooters are going to open up the lane for Hasahn French to work inside.(and by the grace of God if Welmer can come back Hasahn’s life down low will be so much easier. Will we be looking at a tourney team I don’t want to get ahead of myself. This team will be very good.

You are counting heavily on three freshmen to carry a huge load. I really like the incoming class and think we can be better next year, I am just not sure how much better.  To be really good we need a return to form from Goodwin.  What Goodwin has done this year has actually been underrated by many on this board.  He has been really good.  That said, we need the return of the Goodwin we had for his last 16 games of last season.  That is what he needs to build on to be a really special player.

 

Jordan Goodwin 2017-18 Game Log _ College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com-1.jpg

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3 minutes ago, brianstl said:

You are counting heavily on three freshmen to carry a huge load. I really like the incoming class and think we can be better next year, I am just not sure how much better.  To be really good we need a return to form from Goodwin.  What Goodwin has done this year has actually been underrated by many on this board.  He has been really good.  That said, we need the return of the Goodwin we had for his last 16 games of last season.  That is what he needs to build on to be a really special player.

 

Jordan Goodwin 2017-18 Game Log _ College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com-1.jpg

I probably didn’t express myself well as usual in written form. I’m not so much counting on them to produce but to change the dynamic of the game which will allow our veterans to be more effective. 

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16 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I probably didn’t express myself well as usual in written form. I’m not so much counting on them to produce but to change the dynamic of the game which will allow our veterans to be more effective. 

Exactly.  I'm not expecting any of the freshmen to be in our top 3 scorers.  But I am expecting at least 3 players to shoot better than 33% from three (Perkins, Jimerson an improved Hankton) rather than the one we have this year.  That will lead to better spacing and give Goodwin and Thatch more room to operate.  I am expecting at least three of our top 5 scorers to shoot at least 75% from the free throw line (again Perkins, Jimerson and Hankton).  Only one of our top 5 scorers shoots over 75% this year.  And I'm expecting Yuri to drop dimes whether he's out there for 15 or 25 min.  It's second nature to him, just like rebounding is to Goodwin.

I would love for Goodwin to return to his perimeter shooting of a year ago.  If he does, that's a bonus.  That 16 game run was the main reason the preseason prognisticators considered him an A-10 POY candidate this year.  Maybe he can sneak up on the conference since we'll be picked for middle of the pack next year.  

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I'm hoping that Ford calls Goodwin into his office and explains to him that plans have changed.  He's no longer going to be the next Marcus Smart.  Instead, if he keeps shooting extra before and after practice, like I've heard he's been doing lately, he's now going to be the next Javon Bess.  Then Ford can move him to the three which will allow him to ease off the responsibility of handling the ball all the time and guarding little, pesky, lightning fast point guards, and concentrate on making shots and rebounding.

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7 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Exactly.  I'm not expecting any of the freshmen to be in our top 3 scorers.  But I am expecting at least 3 players to shoot better than 33% from three (Perkins, Jimerson an improved Hankton) rather than the one we have this year.  That will lead to better spacing and give Goodwin and Thatch more room to operate.  I am expecting at least three of our top 5 scorers to shoot at least 75% from the free throw line (again Perkins, Jimerson and Hankton).  Only one of our top 5 scorers shoots over 75% this year.  And I'm expecting Yuri to drop dimes whether he's out there for 15 or 25 min.  It's second nature to him, just like rebounding is to Goodwin.

I would love for Goodwin to return to his perimeter shooting of a year ago.  If he does, that's a bonus.  That 16 game run was the main reason the preseason prognisticators considered him an A-10 POY candidate this year.  Maybe he can sneak up on the conference since we'll be picked for middle of the pack next year.  

3 Star and others.   Give up on this thread.   Started by a fool and then more inane comments from fans whose own posts prove they know very little about basketball.  Concepts such as proper spacing and open lanes due to complementary playing styles is simply beyond some fans' comprehensions.  Unfortunately, our PGs and perimeter shooters are gone and we are left we rather talented players -- but unfortunately these talented players have the same skills --- slash and drive to the basket.  Thatch and Goodwin have similar skills - as do our other guards.   McCall and Jett brought different skills.  Same with Highmark and Claggett.   Lisch and Liiddell….  This year, defenses pack the lane and make slashing to the basket difficult.  Same with even layups.  If we had outside shooting, I guarantee you that our existing bigs would be more efficient and not miss as many bunnies.  We have scorers but not shooters.  We call our scorers "athletic" and expect them to better than other team's skill players.  When success is not reached, we tear down our coach and our best players.  Arguing over 5% shooting percentages from 3 point also is just stupid.  If a guy takes only 36 shots on the season (1 to 2 shots per game) from the 3 point line, he is not a shooter whether he makes 30%, 40% or 50%.  5% of a small amount is still a small amount.  And hitting a good percentage in pre conference games or easier competition also skews the results.  No opposing team is going to change its defense if a non-shooter increases his percentage by 5%.  Get real.  Unless we consistently burn teams from the outside.  See Lisch, Highmark, Claggett, even Cobbin.

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I was actually impressed with Ford’s coaching the past 2 seasons with little talent and short benches. This season however I have been very unimpressed and felt he has been thoroughly outcoached in every one of our losses. 

I never miss a Billiken game but don’t enjoy college basketball near as much as I used to due to all the transfers, one and dones, etc. Gordon is a prime example of everything wrong with the game. But the number of players kicked off the team and left the program under Ford has taken it to a new level. 

I don’t see anything that can get Ford fired after this year but his coaching and ability to keep players has to improve and improve immediately.

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Glad that this string of three losses decreases the chances of Coach Ford getting scooped by a P5 team after the season. I like having him as our coach. The longer he's running the show the better - and I see him getting bought out by a bigger program as still much more likely than him getting fired. 

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I truly hope you all are right.  TH looks legit, but so did Jacobs' HS tape reels... I've heard good things about Perkins, but that is a totally wait-and-see player.. I'm excited about Jimerson, but let's see if he can do the same with A10 defense in his face.  I mean..TI scored 20ppg as well and then scores basically half that at best now at SLU....just being cautiously optimisitic.

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On 2/1/2019 at 9:05 AM, CBFan said:

I rate this post as "wut?"

It is amusing to read that Isabell will be a huge loss.  There is a freshman named Yuri Collins that will cure our point guard ills and I guess you feel that Jacobs is a bust?

I guess you feel that Thatch and Hankton are a bust because you feel the team is so bad with these players, the  Billikens team next season will finish in the bottom half of the A10.

I guess you feel Hargrove, Collins and Jimmerson will be the be the occasional good night from the freshman?

I guess you feel Perkins who is one of the top scorers in JUCO will not score in double digits for the Billikens?

 

Boy, you must have a crystal ball or something that I don't have. 

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On 2/1/2019 at 11:11 AM, 3star_recruit said:

Exactly.  I'm not expecting any of the freshmen to be in our top 3 scorers.  But I am expecting at least 3 players to shoot better than 33% from three (Perkins, Jimerson an improved Hankton) rather than the one we have this year.  That will lead to better spacing and give Goodwin and Thatch more room to operate.  I am expecting at least three of our top 5 scorers to shoot at least 75% from the free throw line (again Perkins, Jimerson and Hankton).  Only one of our top 5 scorers shoots over 75% this year.  And I'm expecting Yuri to drop dimes whether he's out there for 15 or 25 min.  It's second nature to him, just like rebounding is to Goodwin.

I would love for Goodwin to return to his perimeter shooting of a year ago.  If he does, that's a bonus.  That 16 game run was the main reason the preseason prognisticators considered him an A-10 POY candidate this year.  Maybe he can sneak up on the conference since we'll be picked for middle of the pack next year.  

I bet you expected TI to be dropping dimes and scoring 20ppg too once you heard he was transferring to SLU

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On 2/1/2019 at 9:05 AM, CBFan said:

I rate this post as "wut?"

It is amusing to read that Isabell will be a huge loss.  There is a freshman named Yuri Collins that will cure our point guard ills and I guess you feel that Jacobs is a bust?

I guess you feel that Thatch and Hankton are a bust because you feel the team is so bad with these players, the  Billikens team next season will finish in the bottom half of the A10.

I guess you feel Hargrove, Collins and Jimmerson will be the be the occasional good night from the freshman?

I guess you feel Perkins who is one of the top scorers in JUCO will not score in double digits for the Billikens?

 

1.  Never said "huge loss"

2.  I think we can expect the freshman will need a year to get used to A10 play.  

3. Any reason why I shouldn't think Jacob's is a bust?

4.  I like Thatch and Hankton.  Hankton has a nice shot..he'll be good for a few 3s per game.  Thatch is good on D, but is a good example of a high score from HS that is not an offensive threat in a10.

5. Hargrove, Collins, Jimerson...let's see.  See #1.

6. Perkins...I dont know why you expect a guy in JUCO level to walk in to A10 play and just go to town..will need a year to acclimate.  I think he'll be 10ppg player.

7. Goodwin and French need to be our offensive weapons next year...hopefully when they are seniors, we'll have a team that could be 1st in a10 play.

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24 minutes ago, EssEllYou said:

1.  Never said "huge loss"

2.  I think we can expect the freshman will need a year to get used to A10 play.  

3. Any reason why I shouldn't think Jacob's is a bust?

4.  I like Thatch and Hankton.  Hankton has a nice shot..he'll be good for a few 3s per game.  Thatch is good on D, but is a good example of a high score from HS that is not an offensive threat in a10.

5. Hargrove, Collins, Jimerson...let's see.  See #1.

6. Perkins...I dont know why you expect a guy in JUCO level to walk in to A10 play and just go to town..will need a year to acclimate.  I think he'll be 10ppg player.

7. Goodwin and French need to be our offensive weapons next year...hopefully when they are seniors, we'll have a team that could be 1st in a10 play.

You expect all the freshmen next year to need the whole season but you want to call Demarius Jacobs a bust. Weird. Thatch is still a freshman, a freak athlete but a freshman. I expect him to assert himself when he doesn’t feel like he’s a role player. You expect Perkins to do we’ll immediate because that’s why you bring in JUCOs. Jordan Goodwin is not an “offensive weapon”. He is not a go to scorer. That’s just not his playing style. He’s a 7-10 pt 7-10 reb a game player and that’s a great thing to be. 

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3 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

You expect all the freshmen next year to need the whole season but you want to call Demarius Jacobs a bust. Weird. Thatch is still a freshman, a freak athlete but a freshman. I expect him to assert himself when he doesn’t feel like he’s a role player. You expect Perkins to do we’ll immediate because that’s why you bring in JUCOs. Jordan Goodwin is not an “offensive weapon”. He is not a go to scorer. That’s just not his playing style. He’s a 7-10 pt 7-10 reb a game player and that’s a great thing to be. 

I respect your opinion. I guess we'll see. I like your optimism though.

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6 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

You expect Perkins to do we’ll immediate because that’s why you bring in JUCOs.

Jordan Goodwin is not an “offensive weapon”. He is not a go to scorer. That’s just not his playing style. He’s a 7-10 pt 7-10 reb a game player and that’s a great thing to be. 

You sir are an idiot. Rabid Billiken fan but limited knowledge of the game. Guys like you are best to keep relatively quiet so others dont realize how little you know. Your choice though. . 

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