gravilst Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 The odd thing about this game, our offense was actually pretty good. If you look at all the numbers, we actually had a good game. We limited our turnovers, did great rebounding, had decent shooting percentages. Our defense was where we fell short. French has a tough job of being the 5 (or Foreman). Golden caused a lot of damage, and being pretty athletic for 6-10, its hard to blame our 6-7, 6-8 guys for not doing more. When we play a team with an athletic true center, we will struggle. Especially given the fact French is aware of him being crucial and always in danger of fouling out. I would expect him to play with a little hesitation at times. French has looked better passing out of the double team lately. On offense, the movement away from the ball is sometimes great; we will have multiple guys running the baseline, running through the paint, etc. However the very next play, we will just have four guys standing around the perimeter with little to no attempt at penetration. I wonder how much of this is based on the taxing effort being done on the defensive end. I dont believe any of us here thought Ford was near the Majerus level of game manager, but again we can not fault Ford for last season with losing so many guys. We can not make a fair judgement of him with the losses of Santos and Gordon this year, compiled with the injuries to Hankton, Jacobs, and Welmer. If we had a guy to play the 5 (santos or gordon) we very likely could be 8-0 in conference play. We as Billikens have been struck with awful luck once again is losing players who could be key in turning this team from average to great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: I think it is the head coach's job to manage — and massage, if necessary — the egos and personalities of the members of his team for the benefit of the best team possible. That didn't happen with Santos and Gordon, and it may be lacking with Isabell, as well. Santos supposedly did something off the court. Maybe Ford can have them wear Chastity belts. Gordon was a risk and we all knew it and we all wanted him. It didn't work out. Would you want him to not recruit the next top 50 player with issues? Your statement is naive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Even though I think our offense sucks, the defense lost the game tonight slufanskip likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Lou Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 24 minutes ago, slufanskip said: Ahhh but shooters were brought in. They just aren't here any longer Getting into hypotheticals here but I would argue AD was the only for sure shooter that’s missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sweet Lou said: Getting into hypotheticals here but I would argue AD was the only for sure shooter that’s missing Wouldn't Bishop be a Sr this year? and wasn't Ty Graves supposed to be a decent shooter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, slufanskip said: Santos supposedly did something off the court. Maybe Ford can have them wear Chastity belts. Gordon was a risk and we all knew it and we all wanted him. It didn't work out. Would you want him to not recruit the next top 50 player with issues? Your statement is naive Where did I say anything remotely resembling what I've highlighted? Close to a straw man. As for Santos getting booted for off-court issues, as far as I can tell that was speculation. He was suspended indefinitely for violation of team rules, and he decided to leave school rather than atone for his mistake(s). (Feel free to PM me with details — anyone — if there's something credible.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Lou Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, slufanskip said: Wouldn't Bishop be a Sr this year? and wasn't Ty Graves supposed to be a decent shooter? They would be, but I don’t think anyone’s first comment on their skills would be their 3pt shooting, so the hypothtical of status quo on the team overall would stay the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, RiseAndGrind said: Clock. We disagree. It is Travis Ford’s team and it’s fault. This team has a guy who will be playing in the NBA and they just lost at home to a trash Richmond team. Ford recruited this team and the players that left. As to Plan B isabell has been horrible Wiley has been bad except for 2 games. Maybe we should also give Ford a pass because Gordon and Santos left as well Rise I would really prefer having this conversation after the season. Right now, we still have games to play and still need everyone on the current roster. And as was demonstrated by our play the last 1 to 2 minutes of the game, these guys have not quit on their Coach or their teammates. IMO, we should not either. With that said, it is unfair to say Ford may be a good recruiter but is a lousy game coach, cite OSU and say this year's performance/not winning the A10 is all on Ford. If Graves, Henriquez and Bishop deserved to be kicked out of school, then SLU should have kicked them out in the Fall/before the season and allow Ford to replace them in the Fall. Stringing them along all season, moving them off campus housing and then back on to campus before expelling them inn the Spring (and suspending Goodwin for the remainder of the year was not only a joke but truly set Ford back -- probably 2 years. We are damn lucky that both RM and Ford (maybe our 2 best coaches in recent times) both agreed to stay at SLU after the Title IX fiascos. But jumping Ford's ass when S2 wrecks his plan, causing him to not only lose 3 guards but lose them 3/4 of the way into the season and making it tough to replace them doesn't seem fair. Santos apparently was another one (S3) and then Plan B blows up while showing no patience for the very need for Plan B in the first place - just doesn't seem fair. How would Brad have recovered from S1 or S2? Anyone want him back ? Good coach during games but not a good recruiter. Brad couldn't get anyone to play with Lisch and Lidell. Make him go thru S1 and seek how he would have rebounded as compared to RM. Have Brad lose 3 of the likes of Graves, Henriquez and Bishop and see what he would have brought in during the Spring. Same with Romar. How about Crews? kappy96 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, HoosierPal said: We were outplayed by a bunch of Freshmen and Sophomores. Yes. Goodwin and French are also Sophs and Hankton and Thatch are also Frosh. We are lead by Bess (Senior) but otherwise rely upon Frosh and Sophs -- and next year will have Frosh, Sophs and Juniors. Maybe we should be more concerned about having good players vs. having upper classmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, brianstl said: Gordon and Santos were Ford recruits. It is his job to keep them on campus Not true. We rolled the dice with Gordon and lost not only him but Jalen Johnson as well. Hindsight is 20 - 20 but I don't recall many local 5 star guys wanting to play for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Ford is a good recruiter and a good coach, however once more the team is lacking depth due to injuries and departures, and there are things that we are not very good with, like scoring and FTs. The problem is that fans cannot get the idea out of their minds that we should somehow be a lot better than what we really are. In this particular game against Richmond, the refs may have increased Richmond's score by 10 pts. or maybe more just by calling fouls against us and not against them. Obviously Ford cannot do much about the refs during a game. About Gordon vs Jalen Johnson, hindsight is indeed 20-20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, slufanskip said: Does it matter how he gets it done? He started with a worse roster than Majerus. Why was Majerus successful when he didn't get us to the tourney until year 5, however Ford is not because we might not get there in year 3? +1 And RM was ripped for not bringing in JUCO's or transfers (pre Grad Transfer era) and also ripped for under performing with TL and KL and for implementing RM's schemes as opposed to building his team around their skills. Coach Ford brought in transfers (Bess, Henriquez, Foreman, Santos, Graves), he bought in 2 Grad Transfers (Isabell & Wiley), a JUCO (Perkins), he kept Roby, Hines, Bishop and Welmer while bringing in Goodwin, French, Thatch, Gordon, Hankton and Jacobs. Some worked and others haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, slufan13 said: Why are we running an offense that requires shooters if we dont have shooters. Every offense requires shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Pelican Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Old guy said: Ford is a good recruiter and a good coach, however once more the team is lacking depth due to injuries and departures, and there are things that we are not very good with, like scoring and FTs. The problem is that fans cannot get the idea out of their minds that we should somehow be a lot better than what we really are. In this particular game against Richmond, the refs may have increased Richmond's score by 10 pts. or maybe more just by calling fouls against us and not against them. Obviously Ford cannot do much about the refs during a game. About Gordon vs Jalen Johnson, hindsight is indeed 20-20. I've been impressed with his recruiting. I've been less impressed with how long some of the recruits actually stay. And I think the jury's still out on how good a coach he is. Lately he's been less than stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, gobillsgo said: I don’t care who disagrees. This season has been an unequivocal failure. Blame whatever/whoever you want. But to go from almost unanimous conference favorite to looking like we definitely won’t have a first round A10 bye is a massive failure. And I’m not at all convinced that we will be any better depth wise next year. I’m so tired of only having 8 players available. Yes. And Jim Crews was the National Coach of the Year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniceMenace Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 9 hours ago, brianstl said: Majerus didn’t come in trying for a quick fix with a bunch of transfers. That’s true BrianSTL but Majerus inherited upperclassmen like Luke Meyer, Lisch, Liddell, Barry Eberhart and Danny Brown. What do we want TFord to do, stick with the Crews roster he inherited and vow “winning these first few years isn’t important, I’m only recruiting freshman with 4.0 GPAs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slusam Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 The game changed when French couldnt handle Golden one on one. Probably the only big man in the A10 that he cant. It forced us to go to a zone that we probably dont practice and dont play well. The middle was wide open and allowed two others to score 20 points. I think Ford recruited kids like Thatch and Goodwin so they could press other teams. I think they all like playing it. Im not saying play it all the time but at least a few times each game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Coach Ford rolled the dice on transfers so we challenge for a title in Year 2 and Year 3. It didn't pan out. So we're forced to wait until Year 4 and Year 5 to see what it happens, which is how long we were going to have to wait anyway, without the transfers. VeniceMenace, slufanskip and NH like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 9 hours ago, slufanskip said: Because opponents know we can't shoot and take our inside game away. French gets doubled every time he touches the ball. I actually would like to see us push the tempo more as Bay Area said. However, in the end I believe we'd still be just as frustrated because we can't finish at the rim or make good decisions on a break Skip i think 13 is advocating what some of us have been saying all season. See the last 2 and a half minutes of the game last night. Pressure and push the tempo up. That is what this teams best suited for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 8 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: Where did I say anything remotely resembling what I've highlighted? Close to a straw man. As for Santos getting booted for off-court issues, as far as I can tell that was speculation. He was suspended indefinitely for violation of team rules, and he decided to leave school rather than atone for his mistake(s). (Feel free to PM me with details — anyone — if there's something credible.) No straw man. You said "I think it is the head coach's job to manage — and massage, if necessary — the egos and personalities of the members of his team for the benefit of the best team possible." Everyone knew the risks with Gordon. It was a gamble. The only way to manage a player like that with certainty is to not recruit them. Gordon's issues aren't on Ford. I won't share what I've heard on Santos however, even if we go with he broke team rules and was suspended. Do you suppose he broke some small rule and was suspended indefinitely? Ford doesn't have a magic wand to make young adults behave nor should he be expected to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: Skip i think 13 is advocating what some of us have been saying all season. See the last 2 and a half minutes of the game last night. Pressure and push the tempo up. That is what this teams best suited for. I don't disagree and was being somewhat sarcastic in my response to Bay Area. However, I don't believe the results we see would be akin to those last 2 minutes over extended stretches of press or up tempo Billiken basketball. I tend to believe it'll be closer to the results we've seen all season when we push the ball. Maybe as a short surprise here and there it'd work, but not for much longer. We would give up so many points we just couldn't match most teams with our inability to make good decisions with the ball. I believe the end result would be worse. However, I'd love to be wrong and see the Bills effectively play with pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 minute ago, slufanskip said: I don't disagree and was being somewhat sarcastic in my response to Bay Area. However, I don't believe the results we see would be akin to those last 2 minutes over extended stretches of press or up tempo Billiken basketball. I tend to believe it'll be closer to the results we've seen all season when we push the ball. Maybe as a short surprise here and there it'd work, but not for much longer. We would give up so many points we just couldn't match most teams with our inability to make good decisions with the ball. I believe the end result would be worse. However, I'd love to be wrong and see the Bills effectively play with pace I am not convinced that pressing and pushing the tempo would work for a full game or even long stretches either. But at this point, the current strategy isn't working so I would like to mix it up and give it a shot. Especially now that we are at a point where an at-large bid is basically non-existent. slufanskip likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: Skip i think 13 is advocating what some of us have been saying all season. See the last 2 and a half minutes of the game last night. Pressure and push the tempo up. That is what this teams best suited for. To do that, Coach is going to have to plant Isabell on the bench. He's a liability on defense no matter what kind you choose to play. I haven't seen evidence that Coach is ready to cut ties yet. Just like in the Davidson game, if Fred plays 5 more minutes and Isabell plays 5 less, we win last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 9 hours ago, Sweet Lou said: They would be, but I don’t think anyone’s first comment on their skills would be their 3pt shooting, so the hypothtical of status quo on the team overall would stay the same So if the first comment isn't a player can shoot then he can't? Bishop shot 36% for a season with plenty of attempts. Ty Graves shot 36% on 36 attempts the 1st half of his Frosh season at BC. Is he a "shooter" like Jimerson is supposed to be? Probably not, however, he was a competent 3 pt shooter. Could Kwamain shoot the 3? I think we'd all say yes. Was your first thought about him. He's a shooter? Nope. He never shot 37% for a season. He shot 31, 36, 36, 35 for his career. 3star_recruit likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, slufanskip said: I don't disagree and was being somewhat sarcastic in my response to Bay Area. However, I don't believe the results we see would be akin to those last 2 minutes over extended stretches of press or up tempo Billiken basketball. I tend to believe it'll be closer to the results we've seen all season when we push the ball. Maybe as a short surprise here and there it'd work, but not for much longer. We would give up so many points we just couldn't match most teams with our inability to make good decisions with the ball. I believe the end result would be worse. However, I'd love to be wrong and see the Bills effectively play with pace What do we have to lose? The square peg in a round hole of playing hoosier ball will get us no where. Those last two minutes are what fred thatch, jordan goodwin and tremaine isabell are suited for. Bess will succeed in anything and so will french. Push the tempi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.