GDT Davidson

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

3 hours ago, Bonner89 said:

What the hell is this ? People like you are the reason why this program has been mediocre and the casual fan has considered it a joke for so long .

He's talking about this season boner69.

[CBFan]

13 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

I think this comes down to perspective.  If you expect them to win every game, and then they don't, that's frustrating and hard to watch.  I'm guessing that there are Duke fans this year that find their team hard to watch when their games are close or they don't win.  It's all relative.  If someone's attitude was NCAA or bust this year, they are probably find any loss frustrating and hard to watch.

If our offense was scoring ten points a game more, with the way our defense plays, we would be a top 10 team.  Is that what this board expects?  It seems to be.  Is that realistic?  I would say no.  This demand that the coaching staff is to blame because we are not a top 25 team, which is what we would be if we had won the games that the board thinks we should have won, is unrealistic.  That was our dream for this season.  It is not reality.

We were 11-21 both of the last two season under Crews.  We were 12-21 the first season under Ford which was a transition year.  We were 17-16 last season.  This season we will end up with 22-24 wins.  Are we unhappy with this progression?  Seriously?

I personally think that this team is enjoyable to watch.   I believe that I enjoy watching them more because I had more realistic expectations than most on the board.  I like watching Bess turn into what I am hoping is an NBA player.  I enjoy watching French do what he does when he's not getting doubled teamed (he's virtually unstoppable one on one).  I like watching Bess and Thatch defend.  I like watching Isabelle drive to the hoop and dish.  I like watching Goodwin grab offensive rebounds left and right and turn them into easy baskets.  There is a lot to like about this team.  I also like the group that is coming in next year.  Let us not ruin the upward path of this team because we demand success earlier than what's normal for a program like ours.  The future is bright.

 

You articulated my feelings about the season team and future perfectly, great post.

Good or bad seasons there is always frustration and in spite of it I am bummed when the Billikens season is over every year.  I am never in a hurry because is a long wait from March to November.

[Old guy]

10 hours ago, Cowboy said:

-can you link us to one post where any poster, even the whacked out posters, on this forum predicted we would be top 10 this season? I don't remember any such discussion 

Cowboy, interpret my post as saying that many of the board members had a wildly exaggerated impression about the final results SLU would attain this year prior to the start of the season. Satisfied with the  accuracy of the statement now? 

[brianstl]

10 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Cowboy, interpret my post as saying that many of the board members had a wildly exaggerated impression about the final results SLU would attain this year prior to the start of the season. Satisfied with the  accuracy of the statement now? 

They actually for the most part weren't all that crazy.

 

[David King]

18 hours ago, Pistol said:

I've found the opposite to be true with this team. Very ugly, frustrating, and hard to watch.

The Bills are fun to watch when they are playing defense. Offense is another story.

[Pistol]

16 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

I think this comes down to perspective.  If you expect them to win every game, and then they don't, that's frustrating and hard to watch.  I'm guessing that there are Duke fans this year that find their team hard to watch when their games are close or they don't win.  It's all relative.  If someone's attitude was NCAA or bust this year, they are probably find any loss frustrating and hard to watch.

If our offense was scoring ten points a game more, with the way our defense plays, we would be a top 10 team.  Is that what this board expects?  It seems to be.  Is that realistic?  I would say no.  This demand that the coaching staff is to blame because we are not a top 25 team, which is what we would be if we had won the games that the board thinks we should have won, is unrealistic.  That was our dream for this season.  It is not reality.

We were 11-21 both of the last two season under Crews.  We were 12-21 the first season under Ford which was a transition year.  We were 17-16 last season.  This season we will end up with 22-24 wins.  Are we unhappy with this progression?  Seriously?

I personally think that this team is enjoyable to watch.   I believe that I enjoy watching them more because I had more realistic expectations than most on the board.  I like watching Bess turn into what I am hoping is an NBA player.  I enjoy watching French do what he does when he's not getting doubled teamed (he's virtually unstoppable one on one).  I like watching Bess and Thatch defend.  I like watching Isabelle drive to the hoop and dish.  I like watching Goodwin grab offensive rebounds left and right and turn them into easy baskets.  There is a lot to like about this team.  I also like the group that is coming in next year.  Let us not ruin the upward path of this team because we demand success earlier than what's normal for a program like ours.  The future is bright.

I don't disagree with your points. I didn't say anything about the program's progress or that I don't appreciate what individual players bring to the table. I just think the product on the floor as a whole this season has been tough to watch, mostly due to poor shooting at all levels and a high number of turnovers causing every game to be a slow grind to a closer-than-necessary finish. Yes, that's due to the makeup of this team and yes, I still watch every game I can. But please don't argue with me on points I never made.

[cgeldmacher]

13 hours ago, moytoy12 said:

Just a couple of thoughts on your very valid points/posts:

1. I don't recall anyone saying Ford should be gone.  If anyone has said that, then I suspect they are a troll.

2. I think what is frustrating me (and maybe others) is a number of things:  sloppy/lazy passes, ineffectiveness/inability to attack a zone, lack of movement/effectiveness on offense, early season mistakes/unforced errors happening in game #20.

3.  With #2 being said, you (and others) are right that Ford isn't the one missing shots, etc.  The players are making plenty of mistakes that are not on Ford. 

4.  I fell victim to expecting too much in the pre-season and then reality not matching with my expectations as the season progressed.  You do a good job of highlighting the progress we have made under Ford.  

5.  I don't think any reasonable poster was expecting SLU to be a top 10 team. 

I liked your post countering some of my points.  I appreciate a logical back and forth on a topic like this.  To further the conversation, I will say that we are a top team in the A-10, and even top teams in the A-10 are flawed.  If we made better passes, effectively attacked a zone (which translates to shoot better), moved the ball better on offense (which you and I might disagree, but I also think this means shoot better, because I think we're getting shots, but just not making them), not making mistakes, then we would be a top 25 team.  I think its unrealistic to expect the program that Crews gave us that Ford inherited to go from 12 wins to 17 wins to top 25.  I think it is reasonable to very happy with that program to go from 12 wins to 17 wins to 23 or 24 wins, to then taking the next step.  That's all I'm saying.  The idea that some on this board are unhappy with the progression of this program and are down on Ford has more to do with unreasonable expectations than reality.

 

 

[cgeldmacher]

2 hours ago, Pistol said:

I don't disagree with your points. I didn't say anything about the program's progress or that I don't appreciate what individual players bring to the table. I just think the product on the floor as a whole this season has been tough to watch, mostly due to poor shooting at all levels and a high number of turnovers causing every game to be a slow grind to a closer-than-necessary finish. Yes, that's due to the makeup of this team and yes, I still watch every game I can. But please don't argue with me on points I never made.

You are absolutely correct.  I was arguing stuff other posters had said in response to your post, and that was not fair.  I will still disagree with you, though, about this team being fun to watch.  I don't always like the results, but I think they are fun to watch.

[billiken_roy]

54 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I liked your post countering some of my points.  I appreciate a logical back and forth on a topic like this.  To further the conversation, I will say that we are a top team in the A-10, and even top teams in the A-10 are flawed.  If we made better passes, effectively attached a zone (which translates to shoot better), moved the ball better on offense (which you and I might disagree, but I also think this means shoot better, because I think we're getting shots, but just not making them), not making mistakes, then we would be a top 25 team.  I think its unrealistic to expect the program that Crews gave us that Ford inherited to go from 12 wins to 17 wins to top 25.  I think it is reasonable to very happy with that program to go from 12 wins to 17 wins to 23 or 24 wins, to then taking the next step.  That's all I'm saying.  The idea that some on this board are unhappy with the progression of this program and are down on Ford has more to do with unreasonable expectations than reality.

 

 

i dont think the majority of posters are "down" on the program/ford, as concerned for the trend which seems to mirror ford's appearances at other schools in his past.   the hope was that along with his excellent recruiting (imo the best recruiter in billiken history) there would be signs of improved practice and game coaching and player improvement/progression.   you cant deny that there are signs of seeing the opposite. 

personally i am no where close to throwing in the towel yet simply because great recruiting can overcome a lot of bad coaching.    my gosh calipari is the best example of that.   not to say we are kentucky or duke like with ford recruiting, but the fact he is bringing very good players every year to build on will no doubt give him the full 5-6 years most agree a coach needs to get a program in place.   i can wait.   hell we have waited how many years.   whats a few more.  

[cgeldmacher]

28 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i dont think the majority of posters are "down" on the program/ford, as concerned for the trend which seems to mirror ford's appearances at other schools in his past.   the hope was that along with his excellent recruiting (imo the best recruiter in billiken history) there would be signs of improved practice and game coaching and player improvement/progression.   you cant deny that there are signs of seeing the opposite. 

personally i am no where close to throwing in the towel yet simply because great recruiting can overcome a lot of bad coaching.    my gosh calipari is the best example of that.   not to say we are kentucky or duke like with ford recruiting, but the fact he is bringing very good players every year to build on will no doubt give him the full 5-6 years most agree a coach needs to get a program in place.   i can wait.   hell we have waited how many years.   whats a few more.  

I agree that Ford is not a Majerus type coach.  There are very few of them out there and there was only one Rick.  So, when picking a coach, you often end up with someone who's a mediocre recruiter and mediocre X's and O'x guy.  It is very rare to get a very talented X's and O's guy or a very talented recruiter.  I'm not sure anyone out there is both.  So, I'd happily take one or the other.

When Majerus was here, we put up with him not being an outstanding recruiter, because we knew the potential existed that he could coach the talent he was bringing in to success.  That patience paid off.  Majerus is the best X's and O's coach the program has probably ever had.  As you point out, Ford is probably the best recruiter we've ever had.  Yet, some don't want to give him the same patience we gave Majerus.

Majerus's seasons went like this: 1. 16 wins (inheriting a 20 win team), 2. 18 wins, 3. 23 wins, 4. 12 wins (S1), 5. 26 wins.

Ford's seasons so far: 1. 12 wins (inheriting an 11 win team left by Crews), 2. 17 wins, 3. this season probably 22 or 23 wins.

Majerus's S1 was in his 4th season.  Ford's S2 has already happened, and, hopefully, will be the last.

We have a guy who has one of the unique talents you look for.  He's a great recruiter.  Let's give him time.  I love next year's recruiting class.  I think we get 20-25 wins next year, and the year after that, we are a top 25 team.  Patience please.  This is not all directed at Billiken Roy, but just a continuation of my rant.

[Schasz]

I think it is silly to even think about ending the CTF era. He inherited a train wreck and through very good recruiting he has improved the project since he arrived. I made the trip to the Lou to see the Butler game and thought the atmosphere at Chaifetz was top notch. I have seen many of the other games on TV. SLU plays very good D. If they had a good Offense then they would still be undefeated in conference. We will have some good recruits coming into the program; however, it is imperative that the returning players work very hard to improve their offensive games over the summer so this team will be a shoe in for the NCAA Tournament next season.

[Littlebill]

29 minutes ago, Schasz said:

I think it is silly to even think about ending the CTF era. He inherited a train wreck and through very good recruiting he has improved the project since he arrived. I made the trip to the Lou to see the Butler game and thought the atmosphere at Chaifetz was top notch. I have seen many of the other games on TV. SLU plays very good D. If they had a good Offense then they would still be undefeated in conference. We will have some good recruits coming into the program; however, it is imperative that the returning players work very hard to improve their offensive games over the summer so this team will be a shoe in for the NCAA Tournament next season.

If this team had a good offense, they'd be a top 15 team.... ha