The House That Rick Built Podcast

[Quality Is Job 1]

8 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Good try.  Didn't study?  The truth is that he flunked out.  He probably did a lot more than "didn't study."   Probably didn't go to class, didn't do his homework, didn't read, didn't participate in class...   All college players are student athletes.  Apparently, Edwin wasn't a student.  Same with Randy Pully (Romar) who also flunked out, Nick Kern (Romar) who could not qualify for any D1 program, Taj Gray (Romar) who could not qualify for any D1 program… Anyone see a pattern? 

And just for the record, I never said Jason Edwin was a bad basketball player. Was he a great player?  No. I didn't see greatness and most great players don't drop down to the MAC.   Instead, I said he was a bust -- which he was - especially in the context of this article/topic -- evaluating the merits of what Romar did here as head coach for us.   We planned on having him for 4 years, invested time and opportunity recruiting him, (didn't we turn Blake Ahearn down for him?), spent a year teaching him, made recruiting decisions b/c of him... and he failed to keep up his end of the bargain -- be a good student.   Yes, I call that a "bust"

No.  Ahearn was a Soderberg pass, supplanted by Darren Clarke, according to the RFT writer who referred to him (crudely) as that F-er from Minnesota.

[Clock_Tower]

41 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

No.  Ahearn was a Soderberg pass, supplanted by Darren Clarke, according to the RFT writer who referred to him (crudely) as that F-er from Minnesota.

Yes. Darren Clarke.  Thank you

[slufanskip]

7 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes. Darren Clarke.  Thank you

Sorry Clock but not knowing the F'er from Minnesota was the guy we took instead of Ahearn kinda hurts your Bills.com cred. 

I remember watching Ahearn warm up at Savvis or whatever the name was at the time before a game here against SLU. He had a rack and just hit 3 after 3. I remember counting after a few in a row. Don't remember the exact total he hit before he missed but it was high. I'm thinking 20is. The kid could shoot. Imo the biggest Billiken recruiting miss that was a sure thing had we wanted him. One skill that almost always plays is the ability to shoot. 

[BilliesBy40]

29 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Sorry Clock but not knowing the F'er from Minnesota was the guy we took instead of Ahearn kinda hurts your Bills.com cred. 

I remember watching Ahearn warm up at Savvis or whatever the name was at the time before a game here against SLU. He had a rack and just hit 3 after 3. I remember counting after a few in a row. Don't remember the exact total he hit before he missed but it was high. I'm thinking 20is. The kid could shoot. Imo the biggest Billiken recruiting miss that was a sure thing had we wanted him. One skill that almost always plays is the ability to shoot. 

Players who shoot over 90% from the FT line aren't welcome here. Sorry, Skip!

[billiken_roy]

40 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Imo the biggest Billiken recruiting miss that was a sure thing had we wanted him. One skill that almost always plays is the ability to shoot. 

that is a little dramatic skip.   i'd say the likes of darius miles, jason tatum, etc would be bigger misses.   the overreaction of ahearn over the years is mind boggling

[Littlebill]

12 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

that is a little dramatic skip.   i'd say the likes of darius miles, jason tatum, etc would be bigger misses.   the overreaction of ahearn over the years is mind boggling

“That was a sure thing had we wanted him” those two literally picked other options after a full press from us

[thetorch]

14 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

that is a little dramatic skip.   i'd say the likes of darius miles, jason tatum, etc would be bigger misses.   the overreaction of ahearn over the years is mind boggling

If Ahearn comes here Soderberg makes at least 1 NCAA tourney, maybe two.  He might still be the coach.

[kshoe]

15 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

that is a little dramatic skip.   i'd say the likes of darius miles, jason tatum, etc would be bigger misses.   the overreaction of ahearn over the years is mind boggling

There's a difference between missing on guys that every school in the country wants and missing on a guy that clearly wanted to come here, you don't think it good enough and then he ends up having a very successful 4 year college career and a cup of tea in the NBA.

[Billiken Rich]

10 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

 (didn't we turn Blake Ahearn down for him?)

Wasn't that the F'er from Minnesota Darren Clark?

(whoops-late to that party--missed the next page of the thread) 

[kshoe]

59 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Sorry Clock but not knowing the F'er from Minnesota was the guy we took instead of Ahearn kinda hurts your Bills.com cred. 

I remember watching Ahearn warm up at Savvis or whatever the name was at the time before a game here against SLU. He had a rack and just hit 3 after 3. I remember counting after a few in a row. Don't remember the exact total he hit before he missed but it was high. I'm thinking 20is. The kid could shoot. Imo the biggest Billiken recruiting miss that was a sure thing had we wanted him. One skill that almost always plays is the ability to shoot. 

I remember going to one of the summer all-star games between their senior year of high school and freshmen season where all the recruits from SLU, Mizzou, and elsewhere come in and play the local kids. Clarke was there as was Ahearn. Took about 1 minute of action to see who the better player was. Ahearn probably ended up with 20-30 points and Clarke maybe had 4 and they were matching up with each other. Naturally much of the Billikenboard was not pleased the next day but there were plenty on here that said we were over-reacting to one game and Brad knew what he was doing.

I'm really enjoying the Sloan interview but only getting 30 minutes each day on my drive to and from work. I may need to pull over when we get to the part about Ahearn wanting to transfer here and being told no, again. Road rage is not pretty...

[kshoe]

9 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

No.  Ahearn was a Soderberg pass, supplanted by Darren Clarke, according to the RFT writer who referred to him (crudely) as that F-er from Minnesota.

It wasn't the writer that referred to him as an F-er. It was a local high school coach that said it and he just quoted him.

[Pistol]

5 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

that is a little dramatic skip.   i'd say the likes of darius miles, jason tatum, etc would be bigger misses.   the overreaction of ahearn over the years is mind boggling

If we want to talk about misses of guys that wanted to come to SLU but we passed on, and then they either thrived at smaller schools or moved on to bigger things, I think there are a few who fit that profile as similar or bigger misses than Ahearn.

Kent Williams didn't get an offer from Spoon and Romar repeatedly expressed exasperation about it, especially as we were scouting SIUC (he dropped 22 on us in a 5-point SIUC win in that game). Williams played in the same conference as Ahearn right before Ahearn showed up, he played more minutes every year, averaged more each season and over his career, and took SIUC to two Tournaments, including a Sweet Sixteen. He was a better passer, rebounder, and defender than Ahearn. He didn't shoot FTs as well (no one did) but he got to the line more. Ahearn shot a little better from 3 and a slightly higher volume but Williams was way more effective inside the perimeter.

Philip Gilbert was Miles' running mate at ESL and was an all-conference player at Bradley. Dude scored 19 PPG as a junior and scored more than any of the other guys listed here for his career. They didn't see the Tournament when he was there, which is a shame because they went on that Sweet Sixteen run shortly after he graduated. Spoon didn't recruit him; not sure why Romar didn't offer along with Miles. I don't remember the story there.

Another miss was Darren Brooks out of Jennings. I don't get why we never offered him. He wound up putting up slightly higher scoring numbers than Ahearn in his MVC career. SIUC made the Tournament all four of his seasons there - Sweet Sixteen, first round, first round, second round. Much better passer and rebounder than Ahearn, much better defender. He would have been a perfect fit at SLU in those years.

Josh Harrellson didn't put up big numbers at Kentucky until his senior year, but imagine four years of him in our frontcourt. Soderberg never offered, Harrellson signed with WIU, Soderberg got fired, Harrellson heard Thomas was going to be out at WIU and asked out of his LOI, they refused, he went to JUCO and had a huge year, and wound up at Kentucky. Majerus and SLU offered when he was a JUCO freshman but it was too late. He wanted to play somewhere more big-time. Based on our rosters in those years, I think he would've been way more impactful than Ahearn.

You could make a strong case for any or all of these guys in that era as being bigger misses than Ahearn. I think I just did. Was Ahearn a miss? Absolutely. He would've been a good player here (although possibly not put up the same numbers he did at MSU). He was far from a sure thing at the time, though. He made a big jump from his sophomore to his junior year in college. Others have made this point before, but when you recruit local players, you don't want to miss. You don't want a guy at the end of the bench resenting his lack of minutes and not being a good ambassador of the program for HS/AAU players in the area. I guess Spoon, Romar, and Sodie saw all of these guys as being risky in that way. I don't get why we mythologize just the one in particular, though.

[thetorch]

3 minutes ago, kshoe said:

It wasn't the writer that referred to him as an F-er. It was a local high school coach that said it and he just quoted him.

It was an AAU coach.

I was one of the biggest Ahearn detractors on the board at the time.  I was so wrong.

Worst move ever by Soderberg.  Freshman Ahearn in the rotation in 03-04 instead of Clarke and Hunt makes that 19-13 team an NCAA tourney squad.  04-05 is a wash with all the injuries and dysfunction on the team and Ahearn's attitude may have made it worse.  05-06 would have been a great team.  We finished 3rd in the A10 with a breakout Ian year.  Look at the the rotation for 05-06 - Ian, Ahearn, Lisch, Liddell, Drejaj, Meyer, Polk, Brown, Newborne.  That was the Juan bid year for the A-10.  If we won 20 games that season we were in.  Then the following year we return everyone but Drejaj, we make the tourney again.  How good would we have been with Sr Ian, Soph Lisch & Liddell & Ahearn?  We could have started Knollmeyer at the 4 and still won the A10.

[Littlebill]

7 minutes ago, thetorch said:

It was an AAU coach.

I was one of the biggest Ahearn detractors on the board at the time.  I was so wrong.

Worst move ever by Soderberg.  Freshman Ahearn in the rotation in 03-04 instead of Clarke and Hunt makes that 19-13 team an NCAA tourney squad.  04-05 is a wash with all the injuries and dysfunction on the team and Ahearn's attitude may have made it worse.  05-06 would have been a great team.  We finished 3rd in the A10 with a breakout Ian year.  Look at the the rotation for 05-06 - Ian, Ahearn, Lisch, Liddell, Drejaj, Meyer, Polk, Brown, Newborne.  That was the Juan bid year for the A-10.  If we won 20 games that season we were in.  Then the following year we return everyone but Drejaj, we make the tourney again.  How good would we have been with Sr Ian, Soph Lisch & Liddell & Ahearn?  We could have started Knollmeyer at the 4 and still won the A10.

Then in two years, Kwamain and Willie are added

[Littlebill]

13 minutes ago, Pistol said:

If we want to talk about bigger misses of guys that wanted to come to SLU but we passed on, and then they either thrived at smaller schools or moved on to bigger things, I think there are a few who fit that profile as bigger misses than Ahearn.

Kent Williams didn't get an offer from Spoon and Romar repeatedly expressed exasperation about it, especially as we were scouting SIUC (he dropped 22 on us in a 5-point SIUC win in that game). Williams played in the same conference as Ahearn right before Ahearn showed up, he played more minutes every year, averaged more each season and over his career, and took SIUC to two Tournaments, including a Sweet Sixteen. He was a better passer, rebounder, and defender than Ahearn. He didn't shoot FTs as well (no one did) but he got to the line more. Ahearn shot a little better from 3 and a slightly higher volume but Williams was way more effective inside the perimeter.

Philip Gilbert was Miles' running mate at ESL and was an all-conference player at Bradley. Dude scored 19 PPG as a junior and scored more than any of the other guys listed here for his career. They didn't see the Tournament when he was there, which is a shame because they went on that Sweet Sixteen run shortly after he graduated. Spoon didn't recruit him; not sure why Romar didn't offer along with Miles. I don't remember the story there.

Another miss was Darren Brooks out of Jennings. I don't get why we never offered him. He wound up putting up slightly higher scoring numbers than Ahearn in his MVC career. SIUC made the Tournament all four of his seasons there - Sweet Sixteen, first round, first round, second round. Much better passer and rebounder than Ahearn, much better defender. He would have been a perfect fit at SLU in those years.

Josh Harrellson didn't put up big numbers at Kentucky until his senior year, but imagine four years of him in our frontcourt. Soderberg never offered, Harrellson signed with WIU, Soderberg got fired, Harrellson heard Thomas was going to be out at WIU and asked out of his LOI, they refused, he went to JUCO and had a huge year, and wound up at Kentucky. Majerus and SLU offered when he was a JUCO freshman but it was too late. He wanted to play somewhere more big-time. Based on our rosters in those years, I think he would've been way more impactful than Ahearn.

You could make a strong case for any or all of these guys in that era as being bigger misses than Ahearn. I think I just did. Was Ahearn a miss? Absolutely. He would've been a good player here (although possibly not put up the same numbers he did at MSU). He was far from a sure thing at the time, though. He made a big jump from his sophomore to his junior year in college. Others have made this point before, but when you recruit local players, you don't want to miss. You don't want a guy at the end of the bench resenting his lack of minutes and not being a good ambassador of the program for HS/AAU players in the area. I guess Spoon, Romar, and Sodie saw all of these guys as being risky in that way. I don't get why we mythologize just the one in particular, though.

My roommate in college went to Mt. Vernon HS (IL), Kent Williams' alma mater, and you'd have thought he went to Chaminade as he described him. A larger than life figure for him. Interesting to know that he wanted to come to SLU.

[thetorch]

I always heard Jay Spoonhour watched Williams play once and he stunk.  Came back and said he was overrated small town kid who couldn't play in CUSA.  Charlie and Jay both watched him set the scoring record at the coca cola shootout.  Spoon had stepped totally back from any recruiting by this time but after seeing that if Jay wasn't his son he would have been out of a job.

Gilbert and Brooks were really bad academically.  Weber and Lowery's MO has always been to take academic risks and make it work.  The way SLU operates Brooks wouldn't have lasted a day.

Harrellson was a colossal f***up by Soderberg.  By that time we knew Soderberg couldn't get it done recruiting wise.  The Ahearn recruitment was a real fork in the road for him.  Make the right move and be a successful HC till you retire, make the wrong move and be an asst coach lifer.

[Cowboy]

33 minutes ago, Pistol said:

If we want to talk about bigger misses of guys that wanted to come to SLU but we passed on, and then they either thrived at smaller schools or moved on to bigger things, I think there are a few who fit that profile as bigger misses than Ahearn.

Kent Williams didn't get an offer from Spoon and Romar repeatedly expressed exasperation about it, especially as we were scouting SIUC (he dropped 22 on us in a 5-point SIUC win in that game). Williams played in the same conference as Ahearn right before Ahearn showed up, he played more minutes every year, averaged more each season and over his career, and took SIUC to two Tournaments, including a Sweet Sixteen. He was a better passer, rebounder, and defender than Ahearn. He didn't shoot FTs as well (no one did) but he got to the line more. Ahearn shot a little better from 3 and a slightly higher volume but Williams was way more effective inside the perimeter.

Philip Gilbert was Miles' running mate at ESL and was an all-conference player at Bradley. Dude scored 19 PPG as a junior and scored more than any of the other guys listed here for his career. They didn't see the Tournament when he was there, which is a shame because they went on that Sweet Sixteen run shortly after he graduated. Spoon didn't recruit him; not sure why Romar didn't offer along with Miles. I don't remember the story there.

Another miss was Darren Brooks out of Jennings. I don't get why we never offered him. He wound up putting up slightly higher scoring numbers than Ahearn in his MVC career. SIUC made the Tournament all four of his seasons there - Sweet Sixteen, first round, first round, second round. Much better passer and rebounder than Ahearn, much better defender. He would have been a perfect fit at SLU in those years.

Josh Harrellson didn't put up big numbers at Kentucky until his senior year, but imagine four years of him in our frontcourt. Soderberg never offered, Harrellson signed with WIU, Soderberg got fired, Harrellson heard Thomas was going to be out at WIU and asked out of his LOI, they refused, he went to JUCO and had a huge year, and wound up at Kentucky. Majerus and SLU offered when he was a JUCO freshman but it was too late. He wanted to play somewhere more big-time. Based on our rosters in those years, I think he would've been way more impactful than Ahearn.

You could make a strong case for any or all of these guys in that era as being bigger misses than Ahearn. I think I just did. Was Ahearn a miss? Absolutely. He would've been a good player here (although possibly not put up the same numbers he did at MSU). He was far from a sure thing at the time, though. He made a big jump from his sophomore to his junior year in college. Others have made this point before, but when you recruit local players, you don't want to miss. You don't want a guy at the end of the bench resenting his lack of minutes and not being a good ambassador of the program for HS/AAU players in the area. I guess Spoon, Romar, and Sodie saw all of these guys as being risky in that way. I don't get why we mythologize just the one in particular, though.

-this is a decent list, but it is missing the 289 kids VTime said should play at SLU 

 

[slufanskip]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

that is a little dramatic skip.   i'd say the likes of darius miles, jason tatum, etc would be bigger misses.   the overreaction of ahearn over the years is mind boggling

You apparently didn't read what I wrote. 

Imo the biggest Billiken recruiting miss that was a sure thing had we wanted him.  

I had never heard that Darius Miles and Jason Tatum were sure things had we wanted them. 

[Clock_Tower]

2 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Sorry Clock but not knowing the F'er from Minnesota was the guy we took instead of Ahearn kinda hurts your Bills.com cred. 

I remember watching Ahearn warm up at Savvis or whatever the name was at the time before a game here against SLU. He had a rack and just hit 3 after 3. I remember counting after a few in a row. Don't remember the exact total he hit before he missed but it was high. I'm thinking 20is. The kid could shoot. Imo the biggest Billiken recruiting miss that was a sure thing had we wanted him. One skill that almost always plays is the ability to shoot. 

Skip.  Not really. Whether it was Ahearn or not -- every bust, miss, whatever you want to call it, is a missed opportunity, a waste of time and effort and prevents us from taking a chance on someone else.  By taking a non-student like Edwin and losing him, not only did we not benefit from what he could offer but also lost our on the ability toi benefit from someone else.   With a promising young Edwin on the roster, other guys (not Ahearn) no doubt chose to go elsewhere. But yes, hard to keep straight all the different busts from 2 poor/mediocre coaches for us -- Romar and Soderberg.   Now, if you are saying that Romar was incapable of recruiting a decent player to SLU (not Washington), then you may have a point and support my premise.  Romar had no one set to replace Edwin, Pulley or Kern (who Romar knew as not qualifying either) other than a then average Hollins who would not have helped much that year.  Taj Gray couldn't qualify either.  Had Romar stayed one more year at SLU, Romar would have received the blame he deserved and no way would he be offered ANY P5 job.  Best thing Romar ever did was get the hell out of town before things collapsed on him.

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, kshoe said:

I remember going to one of the summer all-star games between their senior year of high school and freshmen season where all the recruits from SLU, Mizzou, and elsewhere come in and play the local kids. Clarke was there as was Ahearn. Took about 1 minute of action to see who the better player was. Ahearn probably ended up with 20-30 points and Clarke maybe had 4 and they were matching up with each other. Naturally much of the Billikenboard was not pleased the next day but there were plenty on here that said we were over-reacting to one game and Brad knew what he was doing.

I'm really enjoying the Sloan interview but only getting 30 minutes each day on my drive to and from work. I may need to pull over when we get to the part about Ahearn wanting to transfer here and being told no, again. Road rage is not pretty...

I think I was at that game and remember the discussion. I always like UB but he had a problem evaluating talent. Harrelson is another that as I remember, all we had to do was offer. Got decent minutes at UK. 

[Clock_Tower]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

If we want to talk about bigger misses of guys that wanted to come to SLU but we passed on, and then they either thrived at smaller schools or moved on to bigger things, I think there are a few who fit that profile as bigger misses than Ahearn.

Kent Williams didn't get an offer from Spoon and Romar repeatedly expressed exasperation about it, especially as we were scouting SIUC (he dropped 22 on us in a 5-point SIUC win in that game). Williams played in the same conference as Ahearn right before Ahearn showed up, he played more minutes every year, averaged more each season and over his career, and took SIUC to two Tournaments, including a Sweet Sixteen. He was a better passer, rebounder, and defender than Ahearn. He didn't shoot FTs as well (no one did) but he got to the line more. Ahearn shot a little better from 3 and a slightly higher volume but Williams was way more effective inside the perimeter.

 

And Kent Williams, of course, is the head coach at DeSmet Jesuit High School who have two pretty good soon-to-be Senior

[slufanskip]

2 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Skip.  Not really. Whether it was Ahearn or not -- every bust, miss, whatever you want to call it, is a missed opportunity, a waste of time and effort and prevents us from taking a chance on someone else.  By taking a non-student like Edwin and losing him, not only did we not benefit from what he could offer but also lost our on the ability toi benefit from someone else.   With a promising young Edwin on the roster, other guys (not Ahearn) no doubt chose to go elsewhere. But yes, hard to keep straight all the different busts from 2 poor/mediocre coaches for us -- Romar and Soderberg.   Now, if you are saying that Romar was incapable of recruiting a decent player to SLU (not Washington), then you may have a point and support my premise.  Romar had no one set to replace Edwin, Pulley or Kern (who Romar knew as not qualifying either) other than a then average Hollins who would not have helped much that year.  Taj Gray couldn't qualify either.  Had Romar stayed one more year at SLU, Romar would have received the blame he deserved and no way would he be offered ANY P5 job.  Best thing Romar ever did was get the hell out of town before things collapsed on him.

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with your points. Just giving you a little jab for not knowing Darren Clarke was the F'er from MInn we took over Ahearn. Any longstanding member of Billikens.com should know this. As you should know how to properly handle disputes among other things. 

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:

If we want to talk about bigger misses of guys that wanted to come to SLU but we passed on, and then they either thrived at smaller schools or moved on to bigger things, I think there are a few who fit that profile as bigger misses than Ahearn.

Kent Williams didn't get an offer from Spoon and Romar repeatedly expressed exasperation about it, especially as we were scouting SIUC (he dropped 22 on us in a 5-point SIUC win in that game). Williams played in the same conference as Ahearn right before Ahearn showed up, he played more minutes every year, averaged more each season and over his career, and took SIUC to two Tournaments, including a Sweet Sixteen. He was a better passer, rebounder, and defender than Ahearn. He didn't shoot FTs as well (no one did) but he got to the line more. Ahearn shot a little better from 3 and a slightly higher volume but Williams was way more effective inside the perimeter.

Philip Gilbert was Miles' running mate at ESL and was an all-conference player at Bradley. Dude scored 19 PPG as a junior and scored more than any of the other guys listed here for his career. They didn't see the Tournament when he was there, which is a shame because they went on that Sweet Sixteen run shortly after he graduated. Spoon didn't recruit him; not sure why Romar didn't offer along with Miles. I don't remember the story there.

Another miss was Darren Brooks out of Jennings. I don't get why we never offered him. He wound up putting up slightly higher scoring numbers than Ahearn in his MVC career. SIUC made the Tournament all four of his seasons there - Sweet Sixteen, first round, first round, second round. Much better passer and rebounder than Ahearn, much better defender. He would have been a perfect fit at SLU in those years.

Josh Harrellson didn't put up big numbers at Kentucky until his senior year, but imagine four years of him in our frontcourt. Soderberg never offered, Harrellson signed with WIU, Soderberg got fired, Harrellson heard Thomas was going to be out at WIU and asked out of his LOI, they refused, he went to JUCO and had a huge year, and wound up at Kentucky. Majerus and SLU offered when he was a JUCO freshman but it was too late. He wanted to play somewhere more big-time. Based on our rosters in those years, I think he would've been way more impactful than Ahearn.

You could make a strong case for any or all of these guys in that era as being bigger misses than Ahearn. I think I just did. Was Ahearn a miss? Absolutely. He would've been a good player here (although possibly not put up the same numbers he did at MSU). He was far from a sure thing at the time, though. He made a big jump from his sophomore to his junior year in college. Others have made this point before, but when you recruit local players, you don't want to miss. You don't want a guy at the end of the bench resenting his lack of minutes and not being a good ambassador of the program for HS/AAU players in the area. I guess Spoon, Romar, and Sodie saw all of these guys as being risky in that way. I don't get why we mythologize just the one in particular, though.

I hadn't heard any of those guys  besides Harrellson locks if we offered? That's the point I was making. Had we offered Ahearn was a Billiken, there is no question SLU is where he wanted to go. That is different from guys we didn't recruit but should have. If you're right (and I'm not doubting, as you have a better handle on the recruiting scene than I've ever had) then I can't disagree with your list and stand corrected. 

[Box and Won]

3 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Were those guys besides Harrellson locks if we offered? That's the point I was making. Had we offered Ahearn was a Billiken, there is no question SLU is where he wanted to go. That is different from guys we didn't recruit but should have. 

I recall talk of Williams being a lock had we offered.  Wasn't the story that his family drove him to STL to meet with Spoon to ask for a scholly?

[slufanskip]

2 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

I recall talk of Williams being a lock had we offered.  Wasn't the story that his family drove him to STL to meet with Spoon to ask for a scholly?

I never heard that, but don't doubt you and Pistol. Absolutely agree that would have been a bigger miss. 

I saw the shootout game.  The shootout used to be one of my favorite days of the year. I was at every one from 1990 on. The list of NBA and/or college greats that played in it is unreal. Just some amazing performances. Anyone else remember Teddy Dupay?  Dude hit from everywhere.