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Bonner89

Off topic: Screw Stan Kroenke

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-it would seem if the NFL doesn't want Stan, Roger, Jerry, and the rest on a public stand that has a cost to the NFL in a larger settlement, I hope we don't have the equivalent of the lease negotiators running the show this time

-the StL hotels would love a trial as every sports attorney in America and every major media outlet would have to be in court every day to see the curtain pulled back on the move process, it would be fascinating 

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The 30 for 30 that will eventually be made about this will be fascinating.

 

I’m guessing John Hamm gets the narrating gig for that.

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1 hour ago, brianstl said:

This might be my favorite part.

Quote

Discovery turned up a damning email from a Carson project official outlining to St. Louis authorities all the ways the Rams seemed to be in violation of the league's relocation policy, providing a blueprint for the city of St. Louis' lawsuit.

 

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3 hours ago, Box and Won said:

This might be my favorite part.

 

Loved that part. Also a big fan of this part:

The Rams' lawyer, Andrew Kassof, argued for the lawsuit to be sent to arbitration, corporate America's venue of choice. Kassof's argument hinged on what he saw as a clear and simple technicality: The NFL relocation policy was moot because the Rams had the right to relocate whenever they wanted, due to their year-to-year lease in St. Louis' then-Edward Jones Dome. The lease had expired in 2016, Kassof argued, so the Rams were free to leave.

Judge Philip Hess sounded suspicious. "Do the Rams have the ability to move without the NFL's approval?" he said.

"No," Kassof said. "They need the NFL's approval, and ..."

Hess cut him off. "Isn't that what this is about? The relocation policy of the NFL?"

It was a stunning moment in a nearly empty courtroom. Hess' question had forced Kassof to undermine his own case. Christopher Bauman, representing the plaintiffs, seized on it, winning the argument and keeping the case out of arbitration. Last month, the Rams petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court to issue a stay, and the high court denied it. Teams have been forced to provide eight years of phone records and emails for discovery -- and had to hire legal teams and data experts to sift through them. Kroenke has had to foot all the legal bills for the teams and league, part of an indemnification agreement the league presented to the Rams, Chargers and Raiders on the morning of the L.A. vote. The legal bills have reached eight figures for some teams.

 

Hell who am I kidding....I loved every part of the article referencing the lawsuit. 

 

 

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Right now, or actually prior to now, is when most Plaintiffs would fold and settle.  Most plaintiffs and/or their attorneys dont have the resources, time and money to defend motions to the MO Supreme Court, then to the US Supreme Court and maybe back again (arbitration) , and after/during this defend against 8 years of cell phone calls while investigating 8 years of cell phone records of staunchly adverse, out of town witnesses who happen to be some of our Nation’s wealthiest business men. 

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14 hours ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Loved that part. Also a big fan of this part:

The Rams' lawyer, Andrew Kassof, argued for the lawsuit to be sent to arbitration, corporate America's venue of choice. Kassof's argument hinged on what he saw as a clear and simple technicality: The NFL relocation policy was moot because the Rams had the right to relocate whenever they wanted, due to their year-to-year lease in St. Louis' then-Edward Jones Dome. The lease had expired in 2016, Kassof argued, so the Rams were free to leave.

Judge Philip Hess sounded suspicious. "Do the Rams have the ability to move without the NFL's approval?" he said.

"No," Kassof said. "They need the NFL's approval, and ..."

Hess cut him off. "Isn't that what this is about? The relocation policy of the NFL?"

It was a stunning moment in a nearly empty courtroom. Hess' question had forced Kassof to undermine his own case. Christopher Bauman, representing the plaintiffs, seized on it, winning the argument and keeping the case out of arbitration. Last month, the Rams petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court to issue a stay, and the high court denied it. Teams have been forced to provide eight years of phone records and emails for discovery -- and had to hire legal teams and data experts to sift through them. Kroenke has had to foot all the legal bills for the teams and league, part of an indemnification agreement the league presented to the Rams, Chargers and Raiders on the morning of the L.A. vote. The legal bills have reached eight figures for some teams.

 

Hell who am I kidding....I loved every part of the article referencing the lawsuit.

The part I highlighted is what I really like. If the fees have reached 8 figures for some of  the teams and Kroenke is paying for it all, he may start to feel the squeeze in the not distant future. Assuming his net worth is less than $10 B he is not likely to start feeling the initial pains over this law suit until his cost reaches the 9 figures overall, or around 10% of net (Kahneman). He may be closer to this than anyone thinks. Remember, if the settlement cost is over a billion, he will do the math and continue the legal charade until it looks like his costs may exceed the settlement. That would incentivize him to settle. The lawyers involved are delighted about  all of this, they will have nice Christmas celebrations this year (at Kroenke's expense).

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14 hours ago, Adman said:

What do you suppose they're hoping these phone records will reveal?

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

The part I highlighted is what I really like. If the fees have reached 8 figures for some of  the teams and Kroenke is paying for it all, he may start to feel the squeeze in the not distant future. Assuming his net worth is less than $10 B he is not likely to start feeling the initial pains over this law suit until his cost reaches the 9 figures overall, or around 10% of net (Kahneman). He may be closer to this than anyone thinks. Remember, if the settlement cost is over a billion, he will do the math and continue the legal charade until it looks like his costs may exceed the settlement. That would incentivize him to settle. The lawyers involved are delighted about  all of this, they will have nice Christmas celebrations this year (at Kroenke's expense).

Kroenke is currently cash poor. Well, at least cash poor for a multi billionaire. His assets aren’t exactly the most liquid.

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If Stan had not come along in the Ram ownership my hatred for Jones in regards to the NFL would of seemed untoppable. 

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1 hour ago, Box and Won said:

What do you suppose they're hoping these phone records will reveal?

I'm not sure if anything more will come out that's not already out there but just having the most powerful dickheads in the world having their phone records turned over for discovery is win for all of mankind.

 

That said....

27 minutes ago, brianstl said:

One big thing I took away from the article is that the guy making the most money from the Rams move to LA is Jerry Jones.  Jerry set this whole thing up to make a couple billion dollars through Legacy.

 

The more evidence that comes out showing Jerry Jones was running point on this maneuver, the more damages can be claimed and the more pain inflicted on Jerry and Stan.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Box and Won said:

What do you suppose they're hoping these phone records will reveal?

-I haven't read the entire ESPN article, but what about the Rams move was illegal? I get it broke NFL rules, but isn't the NFL a private enterprise that can set its own rules?

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1 hour ago, brianstl said:

One big thing I took away from the article is that the guy making the most money from the Rams move to LA is Jerry Jones.  Jerry set this whole thing up to make a couple billion dollars through Legacy.

Jerry Jones is almost as big of a slime ball as Kronke.

I wouldn’t piss on either if they were on fire. 

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here's the solution.  everyone needs to quit watching/attending nfl football.   hit them in their personal pocketbook and then maybe they do right by their real bosses, the fans.   quit watching. 

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Just now, billiken_roy said:

here's the solution.  everyone needs to quit watching/attending nfl football.   hit them in their personal pocketbook and then maybe they do right by their real bosses, the fans.   quit watching. 

I stopped watching. Not to hit the owners in the pocket book or to get back at Kronke.

I quit watching because I lost interest. I tried watching after the Rams left I just didn’t care anymore. Sunday’s in the fall and winter are usually gorgeous. It’s a great time to get out and do something. I wasted 20 years worth of Sundays sitting in front of the TV for 11 hours straight.  
Even if St. Louis gets a team I won’t be going back to that.

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2 hours ago, Box and Won said:

What do you suppose they're hoping these phone records will reveal?

My guess is by digging through the phone records it may lead to more questions and other avenues to pursue that could potentially turn up damning evidence. Although I'm guessing you were looking for a specific answer to your question.

 

1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

-I haven't read the entire ESPN article, but what about the Rams move was illegal? I get it broke NFL rules, but isn't the NFL a private enterprise that can set its own rules?

It's a legitimate question: Can't a private enterprise do whatever they want? if they want to choose to follow their own rules they can. If they don't, so what?! I think what the plaintiffs are arguing is that by not following their own rules, it resulted in nefarious behavior.

 

Then again, I don't really know what I'm talking about so who knows...

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1 hour ago, Cowboy said:

-I haven't read the entire ESPN article, but what about the Rams move was illegal? I get it broke NFL rules, but isn't the NFL a private enterprise that can set its own rules?

The reason the NFL has the relocation rules was because of Davis moving the Raiders from Oakland to LA and then back again.  The NFL sued Davis and Davis won because the NFL had no rules.  So they set rules as per the court decision and then they disregarded it.  Given that they have anti trust exemption they have to not be just simply out of control or they risk losing it.  The other problem was that they told StL that they were going to follow the rules so StL played by the rules and then the NFL just said never mind.  This opens them up to fraud charges.  I am sure there is more to it but this is how I have had it explained.

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40 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

The reason the NFL has the relocation rules was because of Davis moving the Raiders from Oakland to LA and then back again.  The NFL sued Davis and Davis won because the NFL had no rules.  So they set rules as per the court decision and then they disregarded it.  Given that they have anti trust exemption they have to not be just simply out of control or they risk losing it.  The other problem was that they told StL that they were going to follow the rules so StL played by the rules and then the NFL just said never mind.  This opens them up to fraud charges.  I am sure there is more to it but this is how I have had it explained.

-ok, thanks

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When we talk about "phone records," we're just talking about a listing of who called whom at a particular time on a particular date, and not transcripts of text messages, right?  

So for example, the records would merely show that Robert Kraft dialed a South Florida massage parlor at 1:59 p.m. on January 3 as opposed to showing that Robert Kraft requested a handy from his usual servicer?

 

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1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

The reason the NFL has the relocation rules was because of Davis moving the Raiders from Oakland to LA and then back again.  The NFL sued Davis and Davis won because the NFL had no rules.  So they set rules as per the court decision and then they disregarded it.  Given that they have anti trust exemption they have to not be just simply out of control or they risk losing it.  The other problem was that they told StL that they were going to follow the rules so StL played by the rules and then the NFL just said never mind.  This opens them up to fraud charges.  I am sure there is more to it but this is how I have had it explained.

I have no doubt you may well be entirely correct in this regard.

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29 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-ok, thanks

The NFL was under threat of having it's Antitrust exemption revoked due to the moving of teams without restrictions. They agreed to establish relocation rules to appease Congress. 

The Antitrust exemption is a major reason why the NFL and other sports leagues are so expensive. For one it allows the NFL to negotiate television deals without being considered a monopoly. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2014/09/16/how-the-government-helps-the-nfl-maintain-its-power-and-profitability/

I'm glad many cities and states are now saying no to public funding of stadiums. I can see a small benefit for a period of time on taxes that would otherwise not be there if the stadium or team wasn't there. But even these bene's should be no more than any other business might get. 

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38 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

When we talk about "phone records," we're just talking about a listing of who called whom at a particular time on a particular date, and not transcripts of text messages, right?  

So for example, the records would merely show that Robert Kraft dialed a South Florida massage parlor at 1:59 p.m. on January 3 as opposed to showing that Robert Kraft requested a handy from his usual servicer?

 

Yes. The records would seem to be a listing of who called whom. 

This could be valuable to corroborate conversations the plaintiffs know existed, ie the call from Kroenke to Demoff indicating that he found the perfect piece of land in Inglewood for the stadium, at a time that the Rams tried to suggest that they weren’t even considering moving. It could show frequent calls to numbers related to Inglewood from people like Kroenke, Jerry Jones, Goodell, etc. This could lead to identifying or confirming people who should be deposed.

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