Off topic: Screw Stan Kroenke

[wgstl]

Also didnt Stan breakaway from the NFL, meaning this thing is only done with Stan, but not the NFL?

[kshoe]

A $790mm bird in hand is pretty darn compelling to me. All this nonsense about POTENTIAL billion dollar plus settlements failed to see that 

1) At any time we could actually lose the case

2) Even if we won, it will get appealed forever and likely the settlement number would get knocked down. $790 today invested at 5% for the next five years is worth $1b. Put differently, If a billion dollar payment settlement doesn't actually get paid for 5 years, you might as well take $790mm today.

 

Expectations management is an amazing thing. 3 years ago when the lawsuit started, most would have been happy with us simply getting the $16mm we spent trying to keep them in town back. So much so that the city and county were unwilling to provide any resources for the lawsuit. Then we get a friendly, local judge to continually rule in favor of St. Louis, and now people aren't happy with $790mm?? Incredible.

[Old guy]

Yes, the suit against the NFL and against any other defendants in this group is still alive after Kroenke settles. This means that $790M is in the bag. This may include legal fees or not. There is more to be made out of the NFL and any other parties involved. If anyone else settles on their own after Kroenke did, whoever is left is likely to go bankrupt.

[AnkielBreakers]

$790 Million is a great number. It means that Kronke was facing a potential multi-billion dollar verdict. This outcome is in the best interests of the law firms. We can be mad that they were hired on a contingent basis, but I definitely would not have supported bringing this law suit otherwise. I never thought the Rams would be so open in emails with what they were doing!
 

So, in short, good for St. Louis! We found a way to squeeze blood from a turnip! We also might be able to avoid having another NFL team, which is a win in my book.

Maybe the city is about to go on a winning streak…

[kshoe]

3 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Yes, the suit against the NFL and against any other defendants in this group is still alive after Kroenke settles. This means that $790M is in the bag. This may include legal fees or not. There is more to be made out of the NFL and any other parties involved. If anyone else settles on their own after Kroenke did, whoever is left is likely to go bankrupt.

I don't think this is right. The tweets I'm seeing say this settles both Kroenke and the NFL suits.

[Brighton]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

I wonder if this settlement is with every party in the lawsuit or just Kroenke.  It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Kroenke cut a deal just for himself and agreed to cooperate in the lawsuit against the league.

Both. This is over. 
 

I must say, I love the Cards and Blues, but if professional sports ceased to exist today I wouldn’t shed a tear. At this stage in my life, I’m content with just following the Billikens.

[billikenbill]

10 minutes ago, Brighton said:

Both. This is over. 
 

I must say, I love the Cards and Blues, but if professional sports ceased to exist today I wouldn’t shed a tear. At this stage in my life, I’m content with just following the Billikens.

Amen. LOL at anyone laughing at a $790M settlement.

[Old guy]

If the settlement involves all parties, then it is over. If it involves Kroenke only, which is what I thought was in the process of happening, then the NFL is in a very bad position and will probably be forced to settle. Individual defendants have been known to settle suits like this one and leave the others in the group holding the bag. This would not be a unique situation.

 Is $790 M enough? sure it is as long as the legal fees are covered separately from this settlement with the plaintiffs.

[crymdg2]

$790 million.  Somewhere Jeff Fisher is smiling. 

[Slu let the dogs out?]

59 minutes ago, kshoe said:

A $790mm bird in hand is pretty darn compelling to me. All this nonsense about POTENTIAL billion dollar plus settlements failed to see that 

1) At any time we could actually lose the case

2) Even if we won, it will get appealed forever and likely the settlement number would get knocked down. $790 today invested at 5% for the next five years is worth $1b. Put differently, If a billion dollar payment settlement doesn't actually get paid for 5 years, you might as well take $790mm today.

 

Expectations management is an amazing thing. 3 years ago when the lawsuit started, most would have been happy with us simply getting the $16mm we spent trying to keep them in town back. So much so that the city and county were unwilling to provide any resources for the lawsuit. Then we get a friendly, local judge to continually rule in favor of St. Louis, and now people aren't happy with $790mm?? Incredible.

Of course I'm guilty of not managing my expectations (at least I was reasonable enough to not expect a franchise out of this - didn't want one anyway), and yes, $790M is clearly better than no money at all. But this isn't strictly about the dollar amount in this settlement that has a lot of people upset.

The NFL is corrupt. The NFL always gets its way. The NFL does not lose. The NFL keeps its secrets buried deep and chews up anyone willing to expose their nefarious behavior and spits them out. Until this case. There was a real opportunity to expose the NFL, to ensure they can't just walk all over the next city fighting to keep its franchise, while also walking away with monetary damages for our region. Of course there is always the risk of losing in court but given the limited facts we did know about the case, and the overwhelmingly plaintiff-friendly atmosphere (https://www.judicialhellholes.org/hellhole/2020-2021/stlouis/#:~:text=LOUIS IS THE PREMIER JURISDICTION,state leading to job loss.) , this case was a layup. Curious though....if STL would've lost in court, who would've been responsible for legal fees? Still Kroenke?

Sure, any verdict in favor of STL would've been appealed and this thing would've been dragged on for years in court so I don't blame the attorneys for wanting to get paid now rather than years from now. The attorneys also earned every penny they have coming. If not for them there is no case. But I still feel this is a huge victory for the NFL. This isn't even a slap on the wrist. This story will be buried on page 10 by tomorrow and the NFL will continue its nefarious ways.

Let's see how the money is allocated and how it is put to use before we grade this settlement. I'd like to see any city money go towards improving the convention center. Anything left over should go towards adding a rooftop deck at the new Humphrey's.

On that note, Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Hopefully everyone is able to enjoy a drama-free Turkey day this year 

[wgstl]

34 minutes ago, crymdg2 said:

$790 million.  Somewhere Jeff Fisher is smiling. 

Stan should have originally offered 79M and just laughed. It would have been a troll that I would actually tip my hat too. 

[kshoe]

11 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Of course I'm guilty of not managing my expectations (at least I was reasonable enough to not expect a franchise out of this - didn't want one anyway), and yes, $790M is clearly better than no money at all. But this isn't strictly about the dollar amount in this settlement that has a lot of people upset.

The NFL is corrupt. The NFL always gets its way. The NFL does not lose. The NFL keeps its secrets buried deep and chews up anyone willing to expose their nefarious behavior and spits them out. Until this case. There was a real opportunity to expose the NFL, to ensure they can't just walk all over the next city fighting to keep its franchise, while also walking away with monetary damages for our region. Of course there is always the risk of losing in court but given the limited facts we did know about the case, and the overwhelmingly plaintiff-friendly atmosphere (https://www.judicialhellholes.org/hellhole/2020-2021/stlouis/#:~:text=LOUIS IS THE PREMIER JURISDICTION,state leading to job loss.) , this case was a layup. Curious though....if STL would've lost in court, who would've been responsible for legal fees? Still Kroenke?

Sure, any verdict in favor of STL would've been appealed and this thing would've been dragged on for years in court so I don't blame the attorneys for wanting to get paid now rather than years from now. The attorneys also earned every penny they have coming. If not for them there is no case. But I still feel this is a huge victory for the NFL. This isn't even a slap on the wrist. This story will be buried on page 10 by tomorrow and the NFL will continue its nefarious ways.

Let's see how the money is allocated and how it is put to use before we grade this settlement. I'd like to see any city money go towards improving the convention center. Anything left over should go towards adding a rooftop deck at the new Humphrey's.

On that note, Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Hopefully everyone is able to enjoy a drama-free Turkey day this year 

According to this site, the average operating income for NFL teams was $109mm pre-pandemic.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193482/nfl-franchises-average-operating-income-since-2005/#:~:text=The average operating income of,record for the league overall.

32 teams x 109 mm = $3.5b

St. Louis just took 21.5% of the entire NFL's annual profits for a lawsuit that most didn't really think had a chance of succeeding when it started.

If Kroenke is paying all of the $790mm and the Rams were an average income team (probably on the higher end but who knows with the enormous debt incurred to build that stadium), we just took the next 7 years of Stan's profits. 

Seems like far more than a slap on the wrist to me.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

3 hours ago, kshoe said:

According to this site, the average operating income for NFL teams was $109mm pre-pandemic.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193482/nfl-franchises-average-operating-income-since-2005/#:~:text=The average operating income of,record for the league overall.

32 teams x 109 mm = $3.5b

St. Louis just took 21.5% of the entire NFL's annual profits for a lawsuit that most didn't really think had a chance of succeeding when it started.

If Kroenke is paying all of the $790mm and the Rams were an average income team (probably on the higher end but who knows with the enormous debt incurred to build that stadium), we just took the next 7 years of Stan's profits. 

Seems like far more than a slap on the wrist to me.

Poor choice of words on my part but I can assure you the NFL is walking away from this undeterred and this settlement won’t alter the way they behave going forward. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/09/08/nfl-2021-season-whats-happening-with-the-leagues-business.html

[Bay Area Billiken]

I was still hoping St. Louis would get a team, preferably an existing team, but at least an expansion team.  It appears the will and the want are not there on either side.

Will it ever be revealed who is paying the freight?  Is it Kroenke alone, or is he getting contribution from the NFL? 

When this case was filed, $790M would have looked great.  In recent times the expectations were raised, although they were brought back recently when it was revealed that Kroenke's side thought the case could be settled for $500M-$700M.

[someoneelse]

6 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

I was still hoping St. Louis would get a team, preferably an existing team, but at least an expansion team.  It appears the will and the want are not there on either side.

Will it ever be revealed who is paying the freight?  Is it Kroenke alone, or is he getting contribution from the NFL? 

When this case was filed, $790M would have looked great.  In recent times the expectations were raised, although they were brought back recently when it was revealed that Kroenke's side thought the case could be settled for $500M-$700M.

I was hoping St. Louis wouldn't get a team.  The city would always be on pins and needles about being deserted, again.  

[cheeseman]

I know some wanted to rub the NFL face in it but while that may have been a satisfying thought the truth is when it comes to business business will always make the decision to pay up to get off.  Not sure how the money would be divided - some think it will just be a windfall for the City and County but the real monetary losers were the Convention Center Group.  They are holding the bond and had to make the payments with very little revenue coming in.  They also have to maintain the dome and it is reaching an age that will need major work.  I would think that the settlement will be divided in such a way the the City gets more than the County but the CCG will get the biggest chunk.  Now if the lawyers have to take their share out of the 790 then I have reservations on taking the deal.  By the way the fact that Stan and the NFL are paying anything of substance is more than anyone else usually ever gets when going to battle with the NFL. 

[kshoe]

3 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I know some wanted to rub the NFL face in it but while that may have been a satisfying thought the truth is when it comes to business business will always make the decision to pay up to get off.  Not sure how the money would be divided - some think it will just be a windfall for the City and County but the real monetary losers were the Convention Center Group.  They are holding the bond and had to make the payments with very little revenue coming in.  They also have to maintain the dome and it is reaching an age that will need major work.  I would think that the settlement will be divided in such a way the the City gets more than the County but the CCG will get the biggest chunk.  Now if the lawyers have to take their share out of the 790 then I have reservations on taking the deal.  By the way the fact that Stan and the NFL are paying anything of substance is more than anyone else usually ever gets when going to battle with the NFL. 

It has been widely reported that the lawyers will get 35% of the payout plus legal fees. $280mm or so.

The remaining $510 will likely be split between the convention center, county and city. I'm with you that I hope the convention center gets a good portion of it. 

[billiken_roy]

payoff sports debt.   we all know the city bleeding heart radical mayor though will want to pizz it away otherwise.  

[wgstl]

Biggest question is would you rather have a trolley or a team?

[HoosierPal]

I understand there was a meeting today at the St. Louis County Government Center to see where they can install new big screen TV's.

[cgeldmacher]

Kroenke paid $550 million as a relocation fee.  He might have to pay the $790 million settlement that was just reached and let's hope the other owners hold his feet to the fire on the deal he made.  His stadium project was projected at $1.9 billion, but ended up costing him $6 billion.  Adding this up, he is presently between $5.4 billion and $5.5 billion in the hole on this deal if we only use the stadium overruns and not the total.  If KShoe's $109 million in revenue per NFL team is accurate, heck let's just assume the Rams make more than the norm in LA and say that he nets $150 million each year.  If that is the case, it will take him over 36 years to make his money back.  I'm sure there are other stream of income there as well, but anything that makes this a worse deal for Kroenke makes me smile.

Really, looking at the numbers, the cost overruns on the stadium were much more of a hit to this bottom line on the move than our lawsuit was.

[jonny karate]

4 hours ago, Westy03 said:

I believe the city is still sitting on the $500 million they received from the American Rescue Plan.  Did they ever say how that was going to be spent?

I think you are right. I read reed and jones are fighting over how to spend. 

[JMM28]

20 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Kroenke paid $550 million as a relocation fee.  He might have to pay the $790 million settlement that was just reached and let's hope the other owners hold his feet to the fire on the deal he made.  His stadium project was projected at $1.9 billion, but ended up costing him $6 billion.  Adding this up, he is presently between $5.4 billion and $5.5 billion in the hole on this deal if we only use the stadium overruns and not the total.  If KShoe's $109 million in revenue per NFL team is accurate, heck let's just assume the Rams make more than the norm in LA and say that he nets $150 million each year.  If that is the case, it will take him over 36 years to make his money back.  I'm sure there are other stream of income there as well, but anything that makes this a worse deal for Kroenke makes me smile.

Really, looking at the numbers, the cost overruns on the stadium were much more of a hit to this bottom line on the move than our lawsuit was.

I read a good article not too long ago about the tax implications of owning a pro sports team. Basically its one of the best tax avoidance things out there with some really, really strange contract loopholes (player contracts being depreciable assets being one that sticks out in my memory.) The P&L of an NFL team matters very little. 

[dlarry]

I was kind of pissed at first but I’m starting to come around.

Im beginning to realize how sweet this deal is. 790 million can do a lot of good even if they do piss away half of it. 

Who knows maybe this leads to a new riverboat McDonalds and a pimped out Loop Trolley. 
 

Plus it will be cool seeing our elected officials rolling around in their gold plated cars with diamond rims.
 

In all seriousness I think settling was for the best.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

40 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I read a good article not too long ago about the tax implications of owning a pro sports team. Basically its one of the best tax avoidance things out there with some really, really strange contract loopholes (player contracts being depreciable assets being one that sticks out in my memory.) The P&L of an NFL team matters very little. 

The NFL recently signed a $113 Billion media contact. Pre-COVID, the NFL generated almost $17B in revenue in 2019, with targeted annual revenue of $25B by 2027.  Average annual operating income for NFL teams has more than doubled in 10  years. Franchise valuations continue to increase. In the long run, $790M is a small price for the NFL to pay to avoid their dirty laundry getting aired and to get rid of STL once and for all.

I just hope we can invest the settlement money in things (convention center) that will increase OUR city's revenue.