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Off topic: Screw Stan Kroenke


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14 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

Yes. The records would seem to be a listing of who called whom. 

This could be valuable to corroborate conversations the plaintiffs know existed, ie the call from Kroenke to Demoff indicating that he found the perfect piece of land in Inglewood for the stadium, at a time that the Rams tried to suggest that they weren’t even considering moving. It could show frequent calls to numbers related to Inglewood from people like Kroenke, Jerry Jones, Goodell, etc. This could lead to identifying or confirming people who should be deposed.

Regarding text messages, it is my understanding that you need the actual phone? Do you know if that is accurate?

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9 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Regarding text messages, it is my understanding that you need the actual phone? Do you know if that is accurate?

I’m not sure, but I’ve heard something to that extent. I think it came up during the Tom Brady deflategate fiasco. I also saw a joke after this news came up that Kevin Demoff was going to promptly throw his iPhone into the Pacific Ocean.

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2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

The reason the NFL has the relocation rules was because of Davis moving the Raiders from Oakland to LA and then back again.  The NFL sued Davis and Davis won because the NFL had no rules.  So they set rules as per the court decision and then they disregarded it.  Given that they have anti trust exemption they have to not be just simply out of control or they risk losing it.  The other problem was that they told StL that they were going to follow the rules so StL played by the rules and then the NFL just said never mind.  This opens them up to fraud charges.  I am sure there is more to it but this is how I have had it explained.

Correct. The two you mention are two of the lawsuit’s four counts: Breach of Contract and Fraudulent Misrepresentation. They are leveled against all defendants: NFL, all teams, and team owners.

The other two counts are Unjust Enrichment (against all defendants,) and Fraudulent Misrepresentation against he Rams and Kroenke specifically. 

All four are well explained in the lawsuit which I think you’ll find a fascinating read:

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/18/b18dd730-f51b-5870-9bb4-09b80c74862c/58ee5c62254f1.pdf.pdf

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1 hour ago, Spoon-Balls said:

STL is going to have a hey day with the money we transfer from Stan and Jerry's accounts. Thinking about all of the cool things the city could build and invest in. 

A billion dollars would go a long way in getting this city back on track.

I just hope they have the right people in place to make the monetary decisions when The settlement does come.

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2 hours ago, Adman said:

Correct. The two you mention are two of the lawsuit’s four counts: Breach of Contract and Fraudulent Misrepresentation. They are leveled against all defendants: NFL, all teams, and team owners.

The other two counts are Unjust Enrichment (against all defendants,) and Fraudulent Misrepresentation against he Rams and Kroenke specifically. 

All four are well explained in the lawsuit which I think you’ll find a fascinating read:

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/18/b18dd730-f51b-5870-9bb4-09b80c74862c/58ee5c62254f1.pdf.pdf

A couple corrections to my earlier post:

- There is a 5th count – Tortious Interference With Business Expectancy (Against all Defendants, except the Rams)

This applies to Jerry Jones’ actions to influence the vote, the owners’ vote to relocate the team and actions of the NFL.

- the Fraudulent Misrepresentation count against the other 31 owners that I mentioned in earlier post was later dismissed by the judge who stated that he could find no stated misrepresentation by them in the lawsuit. That sounds right.

Kroenke, the Rams and the NFL are defendants in Fraudulent Misrepresentation.

The other owners and their teams, the Rams, Kroenke, and the NFL are still defendants in the Breach of Contract and Unjust Enrichment counts.

And as just mentioned, the other 31 owners, their teams, and the NFL are also defendants in the Tortious Interference count.

Hope this isn’t too confusing. 

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And if I haven’t worn everyone out...

For other lawsuit junkies who’d like weekend reading, here is a very good overview and analysis of the suit, particularly the anti-trust component. It was written about 18 months ago and thus doesn’t include the latest rulings at MO Supreme Court and SCOTUS, potential settlements, etc. But otherwise excellent. 

And unlike some of my posts, not too wordy!

http://mbelr.org/illegal-motion-the-breach-of-contract-lawsuit-over-the-relocation-of-the-los-angeles-rams/

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1 minute ago, Adman said:

And if I haven’t worn everyone out...

For other lawsuit junkies who’d like weekend reading, here is a very good overview and analysis of the suit, particularly the anti-trust component. It was written about 18 months ago and thus doesn’t include the latest rulings at MO Supreme Court and SCOTUS, potential settlements, etc. But otherwise excellent. 

And unlike some of my posts, not too wordy!

http://mbelr.org/illegal-motion-the-breach-of-contract-lawsuit-over-the-relocation-of-the-los-angeles-rams/

You're not wearing anyone out! This suit is pretty dang fascinating even if you don't have a vested interest . Thank you for your insight and all of the links, they are quite helpful (I was having a hard time locating the counts against the Rams/NFL)

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9 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

here's the solution.  everyone needs to quit watching/attending nfl football.   hit them in their personal pocketbook and then maybe they do right by their real bosses, the fans.   quit watching. 

Absolutely. Saturday is the new Sunday for me. The college game is so much better and I wish I had gotten more into it years ago.

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15 hours ago, dlarry said:

A billion dollars would go a long way in getting this city back on track.

I just hope they have the right people in place to make the monetary decisions when The settlement does come.

The money is not going to the City as such.  There are groups involved in the lawsuit who will divide the money up.  I am not saying the City wouldn't get something but don't think they will get a billion dollar check for them to do as they please.  

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5 hours ago, cheeseman said:

The money is not going to the City as such.  There are groups involved in the lawsuit who will divide the money up.  I am not saying the City wouldn't get something but don't think they will get a billion dollar check for them to do as they please.  

The money (or other settlement) will be divided amongst four groups: STL City, STL County, the Dome Authority and the lawyers who are working on 100% contingency. Not sure of how it will be divided.

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5 hours ago, cheeseman said:

The money is not going to the City as such.  There are groups involved in the lawsuit who will divide the money up.  I am not saying the City wouldn't get something but don't think they will get a billion dollar check for them to do as they please.  

I hope that the city will get enough to pay off the dome.

If they can keep this from lasting for years and the group can get close to the billion from the NFL it will be a great day.

Allowing the Rams to move was one thing but you can keep the team if you build a new stadium snipe hunt the NFL pushed was the worse and cost people another 16 million dollars needlessly.  The group put together a viable plan for a new stadium and the NFL allowed the Rams to leave any way.

The courts IMO will not like the NFL snipe hunt and I believe the NFL will pay big for it.  Imagine phone call evidence of Jerry Jones, StanK, and Goodell talking about the St. Louis group putting together a viable option but you can move any way.

Had the NFL used some of the 500 million relocation fee StanK paid to make the city whole by paying off the dome; paid off the PSL holders  and making the group that put the group whole that put the new stadium plan together and not given St. Louis the finger there may have not been a lawsuit.

The PR of this lawsuit will not play well for the declining NFL.

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4 minutes ago, Scoop said:

Just give us the Chargers and pay to the update the dome.  Call it good good.  

I think that will be the first offer next season when StanK’s new palace opens and the Chargers play in front of 40000 unused seats on opening day.  The NFL made a big mess of the LA market and the Chargers are not selling PSL’s.  The NFL thought the Charger fans would follow them to LA at 5 dollar a gallon gas and horrible traffic, clueless. 

 

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2 hours ago, CBFan said:

I hope that the city will get enough to pay off the dome.

If they can keep this from lasting for years and the group can get close to the billion from the NFL it will be a great day.

Allowing the Rams to move was one thing but you can keep the team if you build a new stadium snipe hunt the NFL pushed was the worse and cost people another 16 million dollars needlessly.  The group put together a viable plan for a new stadium and the NFL allowed the Rams to leave any way.

The courts IMO will not like the NFL snipe hunt and I believe the NFL will pay big for it.  Imagine phone call evidence of Jerry Jones, StanK, and Goodell talking about the St. Louis group putting together a viable option but you can move any way.

Had the NFL used some of the 500 million relocation fee StanK paid to make the city whole by paying off the dome; paid off the PSL holders  and making the group that put the group whole that put the new stadium plan together and not given St. Louis the finger there may have not been a lawsuit.

The PR of this lawsuit will not play well for the declining NFL.

Agree with all of this. 

I think the NFL is more worried about:

  • undermining their anti-trust protection. Opening that can of worms - particularly if congress begins poking around again - would do tremendous harm. I'd be surprised if the plaintiffs aren't already having discussions with Senators Blunt and Hawley, and representatives. Maybe those discussions began before the lawsuit was filed.
  • guilty verdict, and particularly punitive damages in plaintiff-friendly STL City. Would not be surprising if the punitive exceeds the actual damage award. Certainly could be appealed, but still a huge risk.
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New York fans will give up their entire Sunday, drive and sit in traffic or take a combination of subways and buses -- all to get to their beloved Jets and/or Giants games. A single stadium used every single weekend by Jets and Giants works in New York.   Los Angeles - not a chance or comparison. May be the dumbest decision ever for Kroenke to think his 2 team stadium plan would work in LA

I don't know the Los Angeles market, but strategically placing and building 2 stadiums at the best locations would be the best chance for them -- maybe a team to the North and another to the South.  But the Rams were based in Anaheim - somewhat to the South.   Now Ingelwood is closer to the North, right?   And had Spanos and the Charges not burned their bridge with San Diego (less than 2 hours to Southern portion of LA), I had thought that a location 1/2 between San Diego and Southern Los Angeles could work for them - market the Charges to both LA and San Diego.   Many STL Rams fans would have driven an hour to watch them play at a new location from the Dome -- but not 26 hours like they did to LA    

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3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

New York fans will give up their entire Sunday, drive and sit in traffic or take a combination of subways and buses -- all to get to their beloved Jets and/or Giants games. A single stadium used every single weekend by Jets and Giants works in New York.   Los Angeles - not a chance or comparison. May be the dumbest decision ever for Kroenke to think his 2 team stadium plan would work in LA

I don't know the Los Angeles market, but strategically placing and building 2 stadiums at the best locations would be the best chance for them -- maybe a team to the North and another to the South.  But the Rams were based in Anaheim - somewhat to the South.   Now Ingelwood is closer to the North, right?   And had Spanos and the Charges not burned their bridge with San Diego (less than 2 hours to Southern portion of LA), I had thought that a location 1/2 between San Diego and Southern Los Angeles could work for them - market the Charges to both LA and San Diego.   Many STL Rams fans would have driven an hour to watch them play at a new location from the Dome -- but not 26 hours like they did to LA    

LA has spent 25 years trying to get one stadium so the chance of finding two owners willing to finance their own stadium was not going happen.  The LA market has always been tough for football - UCLA and USC rule that market for football and of course the weather is so nice year round that people just have lots of choices - heck you can ski and surf the same day.

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  • 4 months later...
28 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

This is the news I love to hear.  I think we can all can agree that Stan Kroenke sucks.

He has a lot of his wealth tied up in sports teams and those teams are not doing so well these days.  His stadium is billions of dollars over budget and ticket sales are going slowly and the Chargers were not selling many PSLs before the virus shut things down.  On Paper there is no doubt that Kroenke is worth billions and billions....I do wonder if his liquid assets are starting to take a hit.  It is probably just wishful thinking.

Either way.....I hope Kroenke gets syphilis.

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This is obviously good news. It was also not surprising. A hearing of this by the Supreme Court was an extreme long shot for multiple reasons, not the least of which was the Supreme’s rejection (at same time of Kroenke’s appeal) of an immediate stay Kroenke also requested. It was a harbinger of what was announced today.

I was hoping for a trial late this year - and was getting popcorn ready for nightly pre-trial coverage on ESPN, etc. But turns out trial date is another year away — October, 2021. For anyone interested in the complete schedule/deadlines for discovery, witness lists, various motions, etc., here it is:

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/86/98652d1a-1c04-5723-8473-5f8cd80d8920/5e9dc59b07c38.pdf.pdf

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