Billikenbooster Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 31 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: johnson was a good rebounder and could defend on the ball. Roy I loved JJ. Best 3pt shooter on the team. Excellent FT shooter. Effort was terrific. But....consistently got beat laterally when on the ball. IMHO I thought he was a liability on defense. slufan13 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BILL FAN Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 43 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: johnson was a good rebounder and could defend on the ball. Johnson was a poor defender, Hankton has much more upside. Again, I don't understand why you continue to minimize the ability to shoot, as it is the most important skill on the basketball court and if you don't believe it, see Dwayne Polk. Cincybill likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, BIG BILL FAN said: Johnson was a poor defender, Hankton has much more upside. Again, I don't understand why you continue to minimize the ability to shoot, as it is the most important skill on the basketball court and if you don't believe it, see Dwayne Polk. I think hankton is more athletic. Don't @ me. Cincybill likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pistol Posted January 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 14, 2019 Roy, I know that once you make up your mind on someone or something that it's virtually impossible to change, but it almost seems like you *want* Hankton to fail. Diener is a brutal comparison. He had chronic shin problems and even though he had good size for a shooting guard, he was extremely limited overall. He was a decent defender - and one of the dirtier players we've had - within our system and he wasn't a liability out there, but he brought little other than shooting. Hankton at least has potential to do more. He filled up the stat sheet in HS. He's more athletic than Johnson, even if JJ was a better rebounder earlier on (although I expect Hankton to improve considerably in this department when he bulks up). JJ was perpetually lost on offense, often standing 25 feet from the basket for entire possessions and then getting the ball and shooting because we ran out of other options. He was bad on either end of a screen. He wasn't a good defender, either. Hankton moves and sees the floor much better and understands positioning on and off the ball at both ends. He's a freshman. I don't think anyone here thinks he's the answer or is saying he's a stud right now. It just seems like you're writing him off and other than him not impressing you in practice that one time, I can't figure out why. kshoe, NashvilleBilliken, SLU_Nick and 8 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hankton is going to be very good ... you cannot convince me otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, moytoy12 said: The Diener comparison doesn't work. Hankton is more than a shooter. Hankton can defend on the ball and while he needs to gain strength to box out more effectively, he has a decent nose for the ball on rebounds. we will have to agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, billiken_roy said: johnson could defend on the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 55 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: I think hankton is more athletic. Don't @ me. Is this even a hot take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I thought Johnson was maybe our worst defender last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, slufan13 said: I thought Johnson was maybe our worst defender last year as hankton is this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hankton has the build and the pedigree that would lead you to believe he can bulk up successfully with not much impact on his athleticism. I don’t think he had the lateral speed to defend on the perimeter for long stretches, but I think he can be an effective interior defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, brianstl said: Hankton has the build and the pedigree that would lead you to believe he can bulk up successfully with not much impact on his athleticism. I don’t think he had the lateral speed to defend on the perimeter for long stretches, but I think he can be an effective interior defender. i do agree with this. hankton can work on strength to be able to serve as a formidable backup on the inside. couple that with his shooting eventually he becomes a credible player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierrelaclede Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hoping Hankton develops into a Cody Ellis-type player. Come of the bench, spot starts, a little bit of instant offense. If he can get to that point, I'll be happy with that. But I can see him being better than Cody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, pierrelaclede said: Hoping Hankton develops into a Cody Ellis-type player. Come of the bench, spot starts, a little bit of instant offense. If he can get to that point, I'll be happy with that. But I can see him being better than Cody Cody was really good by his senior year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 It seemed to me Cody's shooting dropped off from his FR year to SR season. Don't know if that's backed up by the stat sheet, just seems that way. His D improved and he was a master at the flop. He could really sell it. I look at Hankton and think of Vergil Cobbins. Lanky good shooter who was decent on D. If Hankton's got length he can become an effective defender by working on it. Also, he seems to be very careful with the ball and only shoots when he's got a good look. I like the kid and believe he's got some upside. Would also like to see Ford give Ingvi more minutes. I don't know where he is in his recovery, but if he can shoot he needs to be given some minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, slu72 said: It seemed to me Cody's shooting dropped off from his FR year to SR season. Don't know if that's backed up by the stat sheet, just seems that way. His D improved and he was a master at the flop. He could really sell it. Cody Ellis 3pt % by year: FR: 30% SO: 29% JR: 38% SR: 33% He actually shot better overall his SR year, but dropped quite a bit from his JR year. His D certainly improved and he was at his best defensively as a SR. Cody was a pretty streaky shooter. I can't find game logs for his FR year, but I recall that he started out very hot and then tapered off. Meanwhile his senior year shooting was very good until he went 0-11(!) late in the year against Xavier and finished sort of in a slump. Primacy and recency effect is probably why you recall him shooting better his FR year than SR year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, billiken_roy said: i do agree with this. hankton can work on strength to be able to serve as a formidable backup on the inside. couple that with his shooting eventually he becomes a credible player. Come on Roy. "Eventually he becomes a credible player" "formidable back up on the inside" Saying he isn't a credible player now certainly seems harsh, and eventually he can serve as a formidable backup on the inside just seems silly. The problem with putting limitations on what a player can become is they quite often get surpassed. Defending the perimeter is as much smarts and technique as it is quickness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 27 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said: He actually shot better overall his SR year, but dropped quite a bit from his JR year. His D certainly improved and he was at his best defensively as a SR. Cody was a pretty streaky shooter. I can't find game logs for his FR year, but I recall that he started out very hot and then tapered off. Meanwhile his senior year shooting was very good until he went 0-11(!) late in the year against Xavier and finished sort of in a slump. Primacy and recency effect is probably why you recall him shooting better his FR year than SR year. I will never forget that game. I was in about the 15th row near center court at Cintas Center. Xavier fans around us couldn't understand why SLU was letting "that blue-haired kid" shoot. "Is he a shooter? What's going on?" And even with his abysmal night, we went to OT and it came down to a couple possessions. Mack called a timeout as a Xavier player was throwing it away (I still contend the ball was in the air and sailing out of bounds when he called it), and they gave it to him. They got the ball back and that may have tilted the outcome. I was just thinking about that game the other day. I get PTSD-style flashbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, slufanskip said: Come on Roy. "Eventually he becomes a credible player" "formidable back up on the inside" Saying he isn't a credible player now certainly seems harsh, and eventually he can serve as a formidable backup on the inside just seems silly. The problem with putting limitations on what a player can become is they quite often get surpassed. Defending the perimeter is as much smarts and technique as it is quickness skip if gordon was still here he wouldnt be playing a bit. i will admit he has exceeded my expectations (particularly shooting wise) but i'd be playing french and foreman 34-35 minutes a game and even using bess at the 4 more. hankton needs to play. who knows what injuries and referees will bring. but i'd limit that time at this point in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 In the short term, we would have been better off this season with Johnson - more experience in what would have been his 3rd year with Ford. But, long term, I think Hankton has a bit more upside. A little bigger and more athletic than Johnson and a quicker release. willie likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, slu72 said: It seemed to me Cody's shooting dropped off from his FR year to SR season. Don't know if that's backed up by the stat sheet, just seems that way. His D improved and he was a master at the flop. He could really sell it. I look at Hankton and think of Vergil Cobbins. Lanky good shooter who was decent on D. If Hankton's got length he can become an effective defender by working on it. Also, he seems to be very careful with the ball and only shoots when he's got a good look. I like the kid and believe he's got some upside. Would also like to see Ford give Ingvi more minutes. I don't know where he is in his recovery, but if he can shoot he needs to be given some minutes. Virgil Cobbins and Hankton are two very different players. Cobbins was not an inside defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 30 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: skip if gordon was still here he wouldnt be playing a bit. i will admit he has exceeded my expectations (particularly shooting wise) but i'd be playing french and foreman 34-35 minutes a game and even using bess at the 4 more. hankton needs to play. who knows what injuries and referees will bring. but i'd limit that time at this point in his career. Foreman was an absolute liabaility on defense on Saturday. Was getting beat like a drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Littlebill said: Foreman was an absolute liabaility on defense on Saturday. Was getting beat like a drum. That is what I saw also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, cheeseman said: Virgil Cobbins and Hankton are two very different players. Cobbins was not an inside defender. In 2019 this board has compared Hankton to Rasheed Anthony, Drew Diener, Jalen Johnson and now Virgil Cobbins. This for a player who has 74 minutes of action. Who's next on the comparison list, Tommy Liddell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, HoosierPal said: In 2019 this board has compared Hankton to Rasheed Anthony, Drew Diener, Jalen Johnson and now Virgil Cobbins. This for a player who has 74 minutes of action. Who's next on the comparison list, Tommy Liddell? Mike Lockette? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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