It's a Long Season--A Little Perspective for the Billiken Faithful

[brianstl]

I think Thor would be getting minutes right now if he wouldn’t have had surgery.

[brianstl]

2 hours ago, moytoy12 said:

If you had your pick of 2 out of the 4, who would you take (assuming all are healthy)?  I’m going with Henriquez and Bishop.

Graves and Henriquez

[billikenfan05]

 

7 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think Thor would be getting minutes right now if he wouldn’t have had surgery.

He was listed as point for Iceland 

[slu72]

Henriquez and Johnson. I still think Jalen bailed too soon. He would have got minutes. Might not have started, but that's for HS anyways. He likely would be logging somewhere between 15-20+ mpg right now. More if his 3 ppg % was at 40%. If he's reading the board, Jalen, you should have stayed at SLU. if your reason was based on anticipated playing time. However,  if you missed the Bayou State, well, you made the right move and we wish you well in your career as a Rajun Cajun.

[billikenfan05]

14 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Henriquez and Johnson. I still think Jalen bailed too soon. He would have got minutes. Might not have started, but that's for HS anyways. He likely would be logging somewhere between 15-20+ mpg right now. More if his 3 ppg % was at 40%. If he's reading the board, Jalen, you should have stayed at SLU. if your reason was based on anticipated playing time. However,  if you missed the Bayou State, well, you made the right move and we wish you well in your career as a Rajun Cajun.

And we’d still have no point guard. And no Isabell or Hankton. 

[ACE]

1 hour ago, slu72 fan said:

Actually, his last full game was Seton Hall and he was the difference in the game with his threes.

Agreed and I think people may forgot just how close we came to blowing that game. That big kid from the Hall had a wide open 3 at the buzzer that could have won them the game. Wiley came up big in that game.

[slu72]

9 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

And we’d still have no point guard. And no Isabell or Hankton. 

I believe he left after we signed Isabell and Wiley. You'd rather have Hankton than Johnson, a guy who would actually be playing and a proven D1 3 point shooter? That makes a world of nonsense. And Hankton basically replaced  Mickey "Big Time"Pearson. If Pearson had stayed we probably wouldn't have picked up Wiley.

[Scoop]

Are we still hoping to see Wiley for UMass?  Any update?

[billikenfan05]

7 minutes ago, slu72 said:

I believe he left after we signed Isabell and Wiley. You'd rather have Hankton than Johnson, a guy who would actually be playing and a proven D1 3 point shooter? That makes a world of nonsense. And Hankton basically replaced  Mickey "Big Time"Pearson. If Pearson had stayed we probably wouldn't have picked up Wiley.

I’d prefer Johnson to Hankton no question.  But my point was that someone is losing a scholarship. And we’re still without a point guard. You’re not changing the equation just replacing apples with more ripe apples.

[slufan13]

We really need a PG but even if we had the best PG in America, there is still nobody who can shoot and teams will still clog our big men in the lane. We get plenty of open looks from 3 (because the opponent gives them to us) and we just dont make enough. Our guard play has been really disappointing to me. Both in terms of scoring, ball-handling, and shooting. My shooting expectations were not high to begin with but I at least thought we'd make the open ones. I'd really like to see Thor get up to speed and try to knock down some shots. Also want to see Jacobs get more shots. 

[3star_recruit]

At the end of the day, coaches are going to coach what they are comfortable.  Coach Ford has had high level athletes at other places and he didn't do much pressing there either.  His history tells us that he will continue to play as if we had a point guard and good perimeter shooting even when we don't.  That's part of why he had disappointing records at Oklahoma State even when he had talent -- he wasn't comfortable changing up his strategy to fit his personnel.  Ford's best records, including at UMass, was when had shooters on his roster.  Guys have to knock down perimeter shots or his offense just doesn't work.

Since I don't see a point guard emerging any time this year, I'm going to pray for improved perimeter shooting.    We can talk about alternate strategies -- like our center shooting three pointers, or pressing on a regular basis -- but we've got Ford's 21 year coaching record that tells us that most likely isn't going to happen.  You're just giving yourself ulcers unneccesarily. The odds are a lot better that Isabell or a healthy Wiley or maybe even one of the freshman catches fire sometime during the conference season. 

[VeniceMenace]

What is the point of the weave, all the handoffs at the top of the key on each possession? Not saying it’s good or bad, just curious to hear from those in the know.

[moytoy12]

12 minutes ago, VeniceMenace said:

What is the point of the weave, all the handoffs at the top of the key on each possession? Not saying it’s good or bad, just curious to hear from those in the know.

Been thinking about that and the only thing I can come up with is that it gives our ballhandler some space to run the offensive set. 

[willie]

You guys act like we are the only team in basketball that runs a weave. Seems to me that a lot of teams start their half court offense running the weave. It’s a way to get people moving. 

[VeniceMenace]

1 hour ago, willie said:

You guys act like we are the only team in basketball that runs a weave. Seems to me that a lot of teams start their half court offense running the weave. It’s a way to get people moving. 

Well...it seems more effective than removing everyone from the lane during free throws.

[moytoy12]

1 hour ago, willie said:

You guys act like we are the only team in basketball that runs a weave. Seems to me that a lot of teams start their half court offense running the weave. It’s a way to get people moving. 

A lot of those other teams keep moving. Our weave gets our ballhandler a little space (after 5-10 seconds) and then we just stand around after that.  So, the weave isn’t exactly acting as a catalyst for our movement/offense.

[Clock_Tower]

1 hour ago, moytoy12 said:

A lot of those other teams keep moving. Our weave gets our ballhandler a little space (after 5-10 seconds) and then we just stand around after that.  So, the weave isn’t exactly acting as a catalyst for our movement/offense.

Made baskets hide a lot of flaws.  And your noticing lack of continued movement is an example of improper execution as opposed to a poor design by Coach Ford. No coach tells their players to stand around.

As to the weave, agree with 3star, that is not our problem.

[billiken_roy]

1 minute ago, Clock_Tower said:

Made baskets hide a lot of flaws.  And your noticing lack of continued movement is an example of improper execution as opposed to a poor design by Coach Ford. No coach tells their players to stand around.

As to the weave, agree with 3star, that is not our problem.

If it happens game after game someone should be held accountable if it is not what they are supposed to do.  I havent noticed a change in mpg by any particular player 

[Clock_Tower]

3 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

If it happens game after game someone should be held accountable if it is not what they are supposed to do.  I havent noticed a change in mpg by any particular player 

Completely fair point.  The bench is the best teaching tool a coach has.  Doesn't mean Ford needs to give a quick hook for even minor mistakes or that guys must be benched for long times, but teaching moments are good for all.

[slufan13]

I wish we would have more lineups with only one big man. Having Isabell, Goodwin, Thatch, Bess, and Gordon/French seems like a good lineup to me. I think our guards have been disappointing but that lineup stretches the floor a bit, has 2 lockdown defenders with decent size, and has multiple stud rebounders still. Yes, it moves Bess to the 4 and its hard to put your best player in a position that is not his strongest but I think it would help open things up and let us run a little more. I think it would be an effective lineup for 8-10 minutes per game. We need space on offense and having 2 bigs who are confined to the paint on the court at all times isn't creating space 

[brianstl]

11 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I wish we would have more lineups with only one big man. Having Isabell, Goodwin, Thatch, Bess, and Gordon/French seems like a good lineup to me. I think our guards have been disappointing but that lineup stretches the floor a bit, has 2 lockdown defenders with decent size, and has multiple stud rebounders still. Yes, it moves Bess to the 4 and its hard to put your best player in a position that is not his strongest but I think it would help open things up and let us run a little more. I think it would be an effective lineup for 8-10 minutes per game. We need space on offense and having 2 bigs who are confined to the paint on the court at all times isn't creating space 

A healthy Wiley and Thor would make a lineup like this more likely.  I want to see this lineup and to see us play more full court, but we need one or two more healthy bodies to things like that consistently.  If we are going to have 4 guards/wings playing together for stretches, we need some more guards/wings to give them a blow as your main rotation guys take minutes from the bigs.

i think Ford really should have tried some of this stuff earlier, but I got to admit his hands are tied by how much he can do this stuff by a lack of bodies.

[Cowboy]

17 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I wish we would have more lineups with only one big man. Having Isabell, Goodwin, Thatch, Bess, and Gordon/French seems like a good lineup to me. I think our guards have been disappointing but that lineup stretches the floor a bit, has 2 lockdown defenders with decent size, and has multiple stud rebounders still. Yes, it moves Bess to the 4 and its hard to put your best player in a position that is not his strongest but I think it would help open things up and let us run a little more. I think it would be an effective lineup for 8-10 minutes per game. We need space on offense and having 2 bigs who are confined to the paint on the court at all times isn't creating space 

-too often from my view when we throw the ball to the block (which is not often enough imo) we have one or sometimes two players cut to the area where we just threw the ball which brings more defenders and makes us very easy to defend, I think if we get the ball on the block to HF or CAG we should give them more time and space to try to take their guy

[slu72]

Good post, Clock, but Ford has to come up w/some schemes other than the weave, too much dribbling on the outside, or getting the ball to a big only to see him get mugged. Right now Bess is our best offensive threat. Find a way to get him the ball for more opportunities. Kick outs would seem to work,  or post Goodwin in the middle at the line to direct the offense from there. We don't seem to have much movement w/o the ball either, and we surely don't know how to pull off an effective on the ball screen. I've seen two cutbacks this year and both produced baskets; Foreman in the middle hit Bess for easy layups. There are answers. Travis needs to find them. He's said as much. This team is not going to be a threat from outside, so buckets are going to have to come off more  movement. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

Good post, Clock, but Ford has to come up w/some schemes other than the weave, too much dribbling on the outside, or getting the ball to a big only to see him get mugged. Right now Bess is our best offensive threat. Find a way to get him the ball for more opportunities. Kick outs would seem to work,  or post Goodwin in the middle at the line to direct the offense from there. We don't seem to have much movement w/o the ball either, and we surely don't know how to pull off an effective on the ball screen. I've seen two cutbacks this year and both produced baskets; Foreman in the middle hit Bess for easy layups. There are answers. Travis needs to find them. He's said as much. This team is not going to be a threat from outside, so buckets are going to have to come off more  movement. 

Am I experiencing déjà vu?

[cgeldmacher]

18 hours ago, VeniceMenace said:

What is the point of the weave, all the handoffs at the top of the key on each possession? Not saying it’s good or bad, just curious to hear from those in the know.

The weave's purpose is the create an isolation for one of our bigs.  By the time its done, three of our guys are on one side of the court with the defenders having their back to the ball, because they just chased our guy to that side.  The doesn't happen if you call the same play with everyone just standing around, meaning without the movement that the weave creates.  At the end of the weave, which only takes like 3-4 seconds, we have a guard with the ball trying to get the ball to a big that is now one on one with a defender.  Once the ball is dumped in, there is usually a play in place that give the big options to either make a move on his man or to dish the ball if help comes scrambling over from the other side of the court.

I've never understood everyone's problem with the weave.  It's just a way to set up plays that have been practiced.  I've always treated it as a good thing.