It's a Long Season--A Little Perspective for the Billiken Faithful

[billiken_roy]

i continue to blame our offensive plan for our offensive problems.   if you want the offense to run one specific way, then you better darn well recruit players that fit that plan.   granted losing henriquez kind of knocked that out of focus, however when that happened, our coaching staff did not regroup and change the plan.    instead we still walk it down the floor, we still run the stupid weave, we still end up with gordon or french or goodwin with the ball 25 feet from the basket with the shot clock running down and then everyone knows that guy is going to throw up a prayer.   

unfortunately goodwin isnt larry hughes.   he isnt the senior jordair jett.   he isnt even the seniors justin love or marquee perry.   i.e. that prayer "opportunity" doesnt have much of a chance.   

the fact that french and gordon and foreman arent guards with outside skills their "opportunity" isnt a high percentage bet either.   

it is time to put the blame where it belongs.   our coaching staff has done a poor job of molding the offense around the players we have and considering their skills.   the best this team has looked this year occurred during what ford labelled as desparate times and we sped up the pace, exerted full court pressure and pushed the ball.   that is what goodwin played in high school when he was first team all state and won a state championship and a second place finish.   that is who we recruited.   we did not recruit a walk it down the floor and direct an offense with only one ok outside shooter (bess).  

let's pick up the pace.   the rest of the season we will likely be the biggest and most athletic team on the floor.   there is no reason to play hoosier ball any longer.   let's go. 

[billiken_roy]

22 minutes ago, GoBills73 said:

This. Last year we had Roby and Hines who were at least capable when it came to distributing and ball handling. Not great, but capable. I think we've seen that both JGood and Tramaine are much better off ball than doing a lot of ball handling and facilitating. I'd be curious at how the team would perform with just an average PG distributing to JG and TI.

i actually disagree with the above.   goodwin and isabell need the ball to score.  standing in a corner and waiting for a pass and oncoming double team isnt going to be successful.  now does that mean i am saying they are the point guards?   not necessarily, but they need to be more than stand around wings.  

[Littlebill]

1 hour ago, NextYearBill said:

evvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvverytime i hint at this.... people get upset. bottom line - overrated 

Eh. I'd probably use "vastly underacheiving"

[Quality Is Job 1]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

I guess this means Yuri's a starter next year at PG, which, isn't all that bad an option. 

I wouldn't go that far.  I still expect Goodwin to grow into the role.  This season.

[Glorydays2013]

Isn’t Jacobs supposed to be a good PG

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

i continue to blame our offensive plan for our offensive problems.

it is time to put the blame where it belongs.   our coaching staff has done a poor job of molding the offense around the players we have and considering their skills.   the best this team has looked this year occurred during what ford labelled as desparate times and we sped up the pace, exerted full court pressure and pushed the ball.   that is what goodwin played in high school when he was first team all state and won a state championship and a second place finish.   that is who we recruited.   we did not recruit a walk it down the floor and direct an offense with only one ok outside shooter (bess).  

let's pick up the pace.   the rest of the season we will likely be the biggest and most athletic team on the floor.   there is no reason to play hoosier ball any longer.   let's go. 

I'm in both camps on this issue.  Our offense has not changed in the three years Ford has been here.  What's noted though, is that Ford has repeatedly said on the radio that the offense is the issue.  "The ball gets stuck" "There is too much dribbling"  It's obvious to him as well as to us what the problem is.  So why hasn't it improved.

And I believe we don't have the PG that Ford needs to run whatever the offense is.  The TEAM Assist to Turnover ratio is sitting at 0.85 today.  That's not good enough to be a top contender.  (Last year the team finished at 0.94 which wasn't very good either. Right now Bess has a A.To of 1.80.  That's pretty good, but still not quality PG.  I'm to the point of seeing if he can organize the offense.  His ball handling is no worse than Isabell's or Goodwin's.

And BillikenRoy, if you have seen the current versions of the Hurrin' Hoosiers, you would be jealous of 'hoosier ball'.  They have two excellent point guards with nearly a combined A/TO of 2.0, and the ball doesn't stay in one place long at all to the tune of almost 80 ppg. That kind of hoosier ball, I'll take.

[cgeldmacher]

On 12/25/2018 at 12:22 PM, Old guy said:

I agree we do not have that luxury if we want to be in the NCAA tournament. But honestly I do not know what we can do to prevent these kinds of losses.

You can prevent these losses.  Look at Houston.  We were very similar to them and our game was close.  They seemed to figure out a way to prevent these losses.  I'm not putting the blame on anyone in particular.  I think our team has a variety of personalities and styles that are making it hard for Ford and the staff to bring them together to play their best basketball, but it can be done.

[cgeldmacher]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i continue to blame our offensive plan for our offensive problems.   if you want the offense to run one specific way, then you better darn well recruit players that fit that plan.   granted losing henriquez kind of knocked that out of focus, however when that happened, our coaching staff did not regroup and change the plan.    instead we still walk it down the floor, we still run the stupid weave, we still end up with gordon or french or goodwin with the ball 25 feet from the basket with the shot clock running down and then everyone knows that guy is going to throw up a prayer.   

unfortunately goodwin isnt larry hughes.   he isnt the senior jordair jett.   he isnt even the seniors justin love or marquee perry.   i.e. that prayer "opportunity" doesnt have much of a chance.   

the fact that french and gordon and foreman arent guards with outside skills their "opportunity" isnt a high percentage bet either.   

it is time to put the blame where it belongs.   our coaching staff has done a poor job of molding the offense around the players we have and considering their skills.   the best this team has looked this year occurred during what ford labelled as desparate times and we sped up the pace, exerted full court pressure and pushed the ball.   that is what goodwin played in high school when he was first team all state and won a state championship and a second place finish.   that is who we recruited.   we did not recruit a walk it down the floor and direct an offense with only one ok outside shooter (bess).  

let's pick up the pace.   the rest of the season we will likely be the biggest and most athletic team on the floor.   there is no reason to play hoosier ball any longer.   let's go. 

You might be right about this.  However, the only evidence you have is from a game against one of the worst teams in NCAA BB.  Should we try to be up tempo more?  Maybe, but we've also seen how our guys, Goodwin specifically, look on the fast break.  It's not pretty.  Going faster paced against a terrible team may lead to turning a game around, and doing so against a middle of the road or better team might lose you a game that you should win.  I don't think it's as simple as what you saw against that one bad team.

[GoBills73]

Just now, cgeldmacher said:

You might be right about this.  However, the only evidence you have is from a game against one of the worst teams in NCAA BB.  Should we try to be up tempo more?  Maybe, but we've also seen how our guys, Goodwin specifically, look on the fast break.  It's not pretty.  Going faster paced against a terrible team may lead to turning a game around, and doing so against a middle of the road or better team might lose you a game that you should win.  I don't think it's as simple as what you saw against that one bad team.

True, but I believe we also went on a 10-0 run against Florida State when we began to full court press...

[cgeldmacher]

2 minutes ago, GoBills73 said:

True, but I believe we also went on a 10-0 run against Florida State when we began to full court press...

I would have to go back and review that game.  I think this may not have been against their starters, or most of them.  Also, I think that if we did go on a 10-0 run, that run was followed by giving up several easy baskets and a run the opposite direction.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

16 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I would have to go back and review that game.  I think this may not have been against their starters, or most of them.  Also, I think that if we did go on a 10-0 run, that run was followed by giving up several easy baskets and a run the opposite direction.

We did give up a few easy baskets during the 6 minutes we pressed Florida State, but we still ended up in the plus, within this time.

[slu72]

FSU basically has 10 starters. They will wear your ass out. 

[Clock_Tower]

In all seriousness, believe most should go back and read their own posts (not everyone elses), take a breath, check in to rehab  if necessary (the blue kool-aid and pre-season expectations is very addictive and can cause delusions) and look at the glass mostly full and not mostly empty.  The Wiz has documented us as being a grade "B" team -- and he is probably right.  Way, way better than the grade of "D" these past years.   And no, it is waste of time to compare J Good in the same sentence as Hines (though thank you for your past efforts).  And no, Welmer is not the answer - and never has been.   And no, a center who steps out and shoots 1 to 2 3-pointers a game does not open up the offense -- instead, it probably makes us worse.  And no, not all tall, skinny white guys who shoot 3-pointers should be compared to Rob Loe.  RM ran a completely different offense designed for a perimeter shooting 4 or 5 - most other coaches don't. And yes, there is a good reason why Majerus never liked to go with the "quick fix" of JUCO's, transfer or now 5th year Seniors like Isabell.  Go back and look our transfers, JUCO, etc. and you will see that over half were not very helpful and/or took half the year/whole first year to acclimate.

The fact that Coach Ford is still our coach - after the embarrassing Situation II last year -- and has brought in another great Freshman class is incredible.   To those who keep questioning Ford, relax, detox and wait until the end of next season - when Ford will finally have his players not only enroll but also be coached up and play.  We would sure be a different team this year without losing Henriquez and the others who were kicked out of school (not by Coach Ford).  The help (this year) is simply not here yet (Thor and Wiley due to maturity and injury), Thatch is coming along just fine, Gordon is doing well.  We are young - and time is needed even though Bess is a Senior.  Can adjustments be made ?  Probably.   Would a faster tempo help?  Possibly.   But we cannot ignore the original game plan of Coach Ford and scrap everything to date - and risk even lower confidence - all for possible short-term gain.   Clearly, our shooting (perimeter and FT) has been insufficient.  Patience.  Our guys will either improve or be replaced/supplement with next. year.

Maybe early season expectations were simply too high... but I do like the direction of this program and do again enjoy watching our Bills play. 

[slu72]

Good post, Clock, but Ford has to come up w/some schemes other than the weave, too much dribbling on the outside, or getting the ball to a big only to see him get mugged. Right now Bess is our best offensive threat. Find a way to get him the ball for more opportunities. Kick outs would seem to work,  or post Goodwin in the middle at the line to direct the offense from there. We don't seem to have much movement w/o the ball either, and we surely don't know how to pull off an effective on the ball screen. I've seen two cutbacks this year and both produced baskets; Foreman in the middle hit Bess for easy layups. There are answers. Travis needs to find them. He's said as much. This team is not going to be a threat from outside, so buckets are going to have to come off more  movement. 

[TheChosenOne]

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[mbart33]

we needed a three point shooter, to pull thee  defense out --wiley is our only true 3 pointer, isabelle, is the junk man but far from the bomber we need to stay with the big boys-- if you rewatch the game and slow motion we had so many people not stay with the guy causing many easy baskets

[Billiken Rich]

3 hours ago, mbart33 said:

we needed a three point shooter, to pull thee  defense out --wiley is our only true 3 pointer, isabelle, is the junk man but far from the bomber we need to stay with the big boys-- if you rewatch the game and slow motion we had so many people not stay with the guy causing many easy baskets

Don't really need the slow motion to see that. 

In any case, my fear for this season was always that we'd not fit all the new pieces together into a great team.  I think that fear has been born out.  Granted, Wiley being hurt isn't helping but he wasn't exactly on fire when healthy...... 

[Clock_Tower]

Again, why the lack of faith in Travis Ford?  

This is not Ford's first year as a head coach.  Also, PG was his position as a player.  Ford doesn't need us to remind him of the benefits of a strong PG.  Reminder:  Ford also recruited and landed Ty Graves and we had Jermaine Bishop (both would be Juniors this year) and both would be PG options this year.  As to hitting the outside shot to stretch the defense, that was what Adonys Henriquez was for.  Thanks to SLU's Title iX staff - we lost all three - and this year are still experiencing the impact of Title IX.

Was Ford too stupid to realize he had lost 3 guards?  No plan B?  Asleep at the switch?  I suggest no.  In response to the bad news which broke last year on or about February 13th, Coach Ford signed and landed Isabell, Wiley and Thor.   Unfortunately, to date, Isabell's results have been mixed but I am glad Ford took the risk with this 1 year commitment.  As to Wiley, unfortunately, he has been injured.  How was he before the injury?  Adjusting.  And as to Thor, didn't we read post after post on this Board about him redshirting this year?  should redshirt this year?  just not quite ready this year? 

Our prior recruits of Gordon and Thatch were never going to be the outside shooters to stretch the defense -- so why place this expectation on them now - their Freshman year?  Let them develop into the roles they are best at. Apparently, Coach has given the greed light to Gordon to shoot a 3 pointer if open -- but that is not, and should not, be our offense.

Does this mean we do nothing?  No adjustments?  Give up?  I like Roy's thoughts.  Maybe a higher tempo will help.  In the long term, good opponents and NCAA Tourney teams are able to stop the fast paced, higher tempo games -- but we won't make the Tourney at the rate we are going. And every hour we spend practicing and implementing a full court press/recover defense we also spend one less hour on our traditional offense.  At some point, we need to implement our offense.  Not willing to assume the weave, current offense we have seen is what Coach wants.  I would suggest we are seeing mistakes in execution (timing, rotation, ball speed, etc) is more to blame.

[slu72 fan]

5 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

Don't really need the slow motion to see that. 

In any case, my fear for this season was always that we'd not fit all the new pieces together into a great team.  I think that fear has been born out.  Granted, Wiley being hurt isn't helping but he wasn't exactly on fire when healthy...... 

Actually, his last full game was Seton Hall and he was the difference in the game with his threes.

[HoosierPal]

Losing Jalen Johnson was a major blow to this team. Without his deep threat we have to rely on an oft-injured player and a second player who may never play again. A third, a frosh, who was hopefully his replacement can’t get off the bench. 

[slu72 fan]

29 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Losing Jalen Johnson was a major blow to this team. Without his deep threat we have to rely on an oft-injured player and a second player who may never play again. A third, a frost, who was hopefully his replacement can’t get off the bench. 

Henriquez, Bishop, Welmer, or a healthy Wiley. Any of the four would help a lot.

[moytoy12]

6 minutes ago, slu72 fan said:

Henriquez, Bishop, Welmer, or a healthy Wiley. Any of the four would help a lot.

If you had your pick of 2 out of the 4, who would you take (assuming all are healthy)?  I’m going with Henriquez and Bishop.

[billiken_roy]

2 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

If you had your pick of 2 out of the 4, who would you take (assuming all are healthy)?  I’m going with Henriquez and Bishop.

welmer and henriquez

[HoosierPal]

Johnson has the highest single season% of that group (I think). 

[HoosierPal]

I googled Henriquez the other day and he is having a so so season in the upper Dominican League. He may have been hurt as his games played is lower than what his team has played.