The Press

[ACE]

2 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

But you cannot argue that overall this season, the half court defense has been very good.  Don't go away from it due to one bad effort.

I don't view it as "going away" from half court defense, rather I view the press as a way to try to generate some offense and rely less on our half court offense. I'm not expecting it the whole game like havoc, but rather utilized at various points throughout the game. It gives opponents one more thing they have to worry about. It also turns our athletes loose a bit. We look so uptight at times.

[BIG BILL FAN]

19 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

My 2 cents:

I understand that you are saying you think SLU could use the press against most teams on the schedule and be effective.  I'm not ready to buy into that after it worked for 1/2 against NCCU.  Here is the issue.  I agree SLU could use a press against bad teams and likely blow them out.  However, if it won't work against good teams, then what is the point?  Sure, it is more fun to beat down bad teams than allow them to hang around longer than they should.  However, it doesn't help at all for when you're playing good teams that you won't be able to press.

My argument is that SLU should play bad teams the same way they plan on playing good teams because that sets them up better for success against good teams.  Essentially the games against bad teams should be more like practice games where you aren't optimizing the game plan to beat that team, but rather practicing your game plan to beat a better opponent.

I'd also argue that the press is more effective when the opponent hasn't scouted it.  NCCU had no film of a SLU press to watch.  They likely did not practice breaking a press at all leading into the game.  It caught them off guard and was doubly effective because of that.  If SLU shows their hand by pressing bad teams, then good opponents can scout and it won't be as effective if/when we do need it (such as being behind double digits and needing a come back).

Don't get me wrong, it was absolutely the correct move to go to it against NCCU because you cannot lose that game.  However, I don't think they should have started with it or gone to it at all unless they needed to (and they absolutely did need to).

Why are you saying it won't work against good teams? It seems to work against us, unless you are saying we aren't a good team. It's about personnel. Our current group is lacking in shooting ability, but they possess quickness and athletic ability. We are struggling greatly in half court sets because the opposing defenses are packing the lane and daring us to shoot from the outside. I agree, it's not something you would do for 40 minutes, but it's something that should be incorporated every game. We need ways to score easy baskets, and the press is the obvious way. Fred Thatch becomes a much more valuable asset in an open court game than in a half court game. The same can be said about several others as well.

[3star_recruit]

19 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Why are you saying it won't work against good teams? It seems to work against us, unless you are saying we aren't a good team. It's about personnel. 

I believe "good" in this context means teams that have legitimate ballhandlers.  We have a post-up guard who heavily favors his right hand and a turnover-prone shooting guard handling point guard duties.  Pressing those guys and pressing high level recruits who have been weaving through defenses all their lives are two different things.

Once Yuri and hopefully another playmaker in 2020 get some years under their belt, teams won't be able to do that to us.

[slu72]

We should stick with what got us to 8-3. Which is the 11th best D in the country played mostly in the half court. That said there are times where it is necessary to press. Last night being a prime example. We stood a very good chance of losing a game that should have been over with about 10 minutes left. Instead, it was us who were on the wrong end. But to all of a sudden think we're 40 minutes of Hell or Havoc, well, you're kidding yourself. But it sure was fun to watch . 

[BIG BILL FAN]

15 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I believe "good" in this context means teams that have legitimate ballhandlers.  We have a post-up guard who heavily favors his right hand and a turnover-prone shooting guard handling point guard duties.  Pressing those guys and pressing high level recruits who have been weaving through defenses all their lives are two different things.

Once Yuri and hopefully another playmaker in 2020 get some years under their belt, teams won't be able to do that to us.

Again, it's about match ups and utilizing personnel. Jordan Goodwin excels in a fast paced "scrambly" game, regardless of the opponent. There is no magical system.

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, ACE said:

Let me clarify one point... I don't view the press as a way to improve our defense, which is already outstanding - it's a way to try to generate more offense in transition. I'm afraid finding consistent offense in the half court is going to be a struggle all season.

When you sub in Thatch and Foreman, that would be a good time to put on the press.

I would throw the press out there against FSU at times.  The press didn't just help generate transition offense yesterday, for whatever reason it made the regular offense crisper.  Maybe just the mindset the press demands of going quicker and reacting instead of thinking had an positive impact across the board.  

[Quality Is Job 1]

Just now, HoosierPal said:

The Press won the game for us last night.  But our half court Defense was horrible.  First half, NCC shot 61%.  Second half 55%.  For the game that was 57.8%.

SIUC shot 45% against us, and had the highest opponent FG% until last night. We won't beat many teams if we let them shoot 58% from the field.

This was the thing I found frustrating about last night's game.  It was astounding how easily NC Central scored against the Bills!

[ACE]

21 minutes ago, slu72 said:

We should stick with what got us to 8-3. Which is the 11th best D in the country played mostly in the half court. That said there are times where it is necessary to press. Last night being a prime example. We stood a very good chance of losing a game that should have been over with about 10 minutes left. Instead, it was us who were on the wrong end. But to all of a sudden think we're 40 minutes of Hell or Havoc, well, you're kidding yourself. But it sure was fun to watch . 

The old straw man argument...  nobody is advocating 40 minutes of Havoc.

As SLU fans, I think sometimes we are conditioned to think the opponent is always more athletic. Many years that has been true, but that's not the case with this team.  We're not at an athleticism disadvantage, but rather a skill (shooting, ballhandling) disadvantage.

I know utilizing the press with regularity would be unusual in SLU world, but don't be afraid. Few teams we face will be more athletic. I felt we matched up quite well with an athletic Houston squad. I thought we had superior athleticism to the two Big East teams we faced. 

Let's use what we're good at a little more. You're fine with 8-3?... I don't think the way we've played is good enough. We haven't even blown out one of our weak opponents. There's not a lot of margin for error with the way we have played.

[Taj79]

I think the press is situational... and unexpected.  Unless, of course it is part of HAVOC or 40 Minutes of Hell or Ninety-Four Feet of Pressure ...... in other words, use it if needed, for strategy, tempo change , whatever.  It also works best against undermanned backcourts which NCCU seem to be, at times.  Because at other times, they broke it and got free lay ups out of it.  So, like all legal answers, the answer is "It depends."

As I look around the upcoming A10, here's who I think the press would show good dividends if employed:

Fordham -- because they are Fordham.  GeeDubya --- because outside of Mazzula and Nolan, they are weak.  Bonaventure --- they only have Poyser and Kaputo and they are not good to begin with right now.  Dayton --- who goes only two deep in Crutcher and Davis but Crutcher is a good one and if you get beat by Crutcher, Toppin, who is offensively limited, will throw down some crowd-inciting dunks in the process.  And Richmond who only has Gilyard. 

Who it might work with:  St. Joe's -- who go two deep in ball-handling guards Kimble and Bynum but who you really don't want to speed up anyway.  Duquesne and Umass -- for the same reason because of a lot of transfers still earning each other. 

Who have the guards to handle it:  VCU, Mason, Rhode Island, La Salle and Davidson. 

[slu72]

Not pleased with 8-3 when realistically it easily could have been 11-0. But I think UH would have handled it well and got some easy baskets Also the PG for Pitt was damn good off the dribble and possibly got them some easy baskets. Probably should have given it a shot at Methdale towards the end. 

[Matty Light]

Like it or not, it seemed the press helped us break down the walls of whatever was preventing us from properly running a fast break.  The Bills actually started running the break well earlier in the game, but with the press it turned into something pretty--something I have been waiting for all season.  I am in favor of using it when you smell blood in the water.  That might be when a tenuous freshman is bringing the ball up the court, or when you identify the opponent is getting lazy with their passes or dribbling.  It can be a big momentum changer.  But if the opponent knows it is coming every play, they will be prepared to bust it.

[Glorydays2013]

If you think our foul trouble was bad before...

[cheeseman]

If you use the press all the time or at least from time to time during each game the other side will practice against it.  The reason it worked so well last night  (Ford talked about this on the post game radio show) is that it took UNCC out of their comfort zone which we allowed them to create for themselves - they simply did not expect it from us.  They ran their half court offense and somehow managed to get many wide open 3s.  The press took them out of their comfort zone and broke the cycle of the open 3s.  It was a good coaching call (it is what a good coach does - trying to find something that works - RM would have been proud) and Ford needs to get credit for it.  I also liked that he was not afraid to call a time out - RM would have been  proud - when he only had 2 left after only a couple of minutes into the second half.  RM would have burned all his time outs in the first 10 minutes of a game if he thought his players were not responding to what he was calling - Ford did that approach last night.

[Bizziken]

4 hours ago, ACE said:

I don't view it as "going away" from half court defense, rather I view the press as a way to try to generate some offense and rely less on our half court offense. I'm not expecting it the whole game like havoc, but rather utilized at various points throughout the game. It gives opponents one more thing they have to worry about. It also turns our athletes loose a bit. We look so uptight at times.

This is exactly right. We simply cannot do the press full time, but as a 'switch it up' measure, it can sure change the tempo and help a stagnant offense. 

Ford has tried to inject some energy at various points throughout the season by using the 1-3-1 trapping defense with French out front.

Coming out of a timeout, switching to a press or a 1-3-1 can be really useful in getting some easy points. 

[Cowboy]

6 minutes ago, Bizziken said:

This is exactly right. We simply cannot do the press full time, but as a 'switch it up' measure, it can sure change the tempo and help a stagnant offense. 

Ford has tried to inject some energy at various points throughout the season by using the 1-3-1 trapping defense with French out front.

Coming out of a timeout, switching to a press or a 1-3-1 can be really useful in getting some easy points. 

-I am a big fan of changing defenses out of timeout, even if just for one or two possessions

[BIG BILL FAN]

36 minutes ago, Bizziken said:

This is exactly right. We simply cannot do the press full time, but as a 'switch it up' measure, it can sure change the tempo and help a stagnant offense. 

Ford has tried to inject some energy at various points throughout the season by using the 1-3-1 trapping defense with French out front.

Coming out of a timeout, switching to a press or a 1-3-1 can be really useful in getting some easy points. 

I was going to suggest pressing after a made free throw and then realized how silly that was...

[Glorydays2013]

05 if you’re going to troll reaction me for stating the obvious then please give reasons why SLU having a full court press won’t lead to reach ins and more fouls?

[billikenfan05]

26 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said:

05 if you’re going to troll reaction me for stating the obvious then please give reasons why SLU having a full court press won’t lead to reach ins and more fouls?

Sorry, should have been a bad post. I wouldn’t worry about foul trouble because we’d be working a deeper bench. Demarius would pick up more minutes and so would ingvi/kc. And that is if we’d press all game which would be ridiculous.

[Littlebill]

16 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Sorry, should have been a bad post. I wouldn’t worry about foul trouble because we’d be working a deeper bench. Demarius would pick up more minutes and so would ingvi/kc. And that is if we’d press all game which would be ridiculous.

The press is totally dependent on the refereeing crew we have. What we did in the second half on Wednesday wouldn't fly with some of the guys we've had this year. I don't totally disagree with GloryRavs, but also I don't think anyone is talking about a whole team identity change.

 

"If it ain't broke don't fix it"