Oregon State from da' Couch in Maryland ......

[Taj79]

... nothing really to add.  I think Cowboy summed it up pretty well.  Was that the 'Fred Thatch Jr. Coming Out Party?"  I hope so.  Overall, I felt like I watched a college basketball game -- the home team started slow, then caught up and took the lead.  They stayed and played that way and better, taking that lead up to 12 points.  The visitors made a run, expending a lot of energy to push a 15-poitnt turnaround, and then the home team righted itself and pulled out the win.  I recall reading somewhere once that the home team gets 4 or so points for being at home.  We won by four. 

This is surely not the team we all were promised or expected.  The injuries to the grad transfers have obviously weakened us.  The departures of front line players Santos and Welmer have weakened us.  Thank our lucky stars Thatch and Gordon are ready to play as freshmen.  Obviously Hankton and Jacobs are not.  Right now, Gudmundsson's schollie seems wasted.  And ditto for Hankton.  But it was a win; Houston could be ugly.

I think not only is Goodwin struggling with his new role, but so too is French.  We all know last year, French did well inside taking it to the basket.  With Gordon down there with him, it seems to have congested the area and limited Hasahn's operating room.  And right now, he has no demonstrated mid-range game so it's even tougher, adding to his frustration.  If you are going to play high-low, French is better suited for the low, but Gordon seems to have the better moves and finishing qualities.  Hasahn on the perimeter is a turnover waiting to happen.  But as someone pointed out ... make some layups and some free throws and that's a 15-point win.  Any win is good right now.

Can Ford coach?  I think so.  The decision to go with Jacobs and let him play up to four fouls was necessary in order to keep Goodwin protected once he picked up his second.  The switch to the 1-3-1 zone trap worked well and seemed to catch Oregon State off guard.  Defense remains our forte and as many have pointed out, bring that every night and you have a solid chance to win.  I think the offensive schemes actually worked because we hit three pointers.  Guys have to apply their ability in such situations and take and make them.  I am still amazed at what refs call and what they don't.  That will never change.

On to Houston -- could be ugly.

[billikenfan05]

19 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Right now, Gudmundsson's schollie seems wasted.  And ditto for Hankton. 

Get a grip on reality. You're overly pessimistic in this entire post but this is just a ridiculous take.

[Taj79]

There is neither pessimism nor optimism in the post ---- that is your perception and therefore your reality.  It's just an observation or two. 

It's a blah post because it was a blah game with little to write home about except a win and Thatch's performance.  And Bess' superlative effort but we are all spoiled because we expect Bess to be Bess. 

[SLU_Nick]

This team is really hard to figure out.  Without Thatch's rushed 3 with the shot clock running down we might be in meltdown mode right now.  

It is good we have an entire week to prepare for Houston.  At this point a loss at Houston and FSU is expected and exiting OOC with 3 losses is about as good as anyone could have hoped for given the Bills' inconsistency so far.  

[brianstl]

18 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Get a grip on reality. You're overly pessimistic in this entire post but this is just a ridiculous take.

Thor just had surgery and my guess is he is not available.  The signing of Perkins makes me wonder about the future of Hankton, at least as a wing.  If Hankton has a future it may be converting him to a front court player.

[BIG BILL FAN]

41 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

... nothing really to add.  I think Cowboy summed it up pretty well.  Was that the 'Fred Thatch Jr. Coming Out Party?"  I hope so.  Overall, I felt like I watched a college basketball game -- the home team started slow, then caught up and took the lead.  They stayed and played that way and better, taking that lead up to 12 points.  The visitors made a run, expending a lot of energy to push a 15-poitnt turnaround, and then the home team righted itself and pulled out the win.  I recall reading somewhere once that the home team gets 4 or so points for being at home.  We won by four. 

This is surely not the team we all were promised or expected.  The injuries to the grad transfers have obviously weakened us.  The departures of front line players Santos and Welmer have weakened us.  Thank our lucky stars Thatch and Gordon are ready to play as freshmen.  Obviously Hankton and Jacobs are not.  Right now, Gudmundsson's schollie seems wasted.  And ditto for Hankton.  But it was a win; Houston could be ugly.

I think not only is Goodwin struggling with his new role, but so too is French.  We all know last year, French did well inside taking it to the basket.  With Gordon down there with him, it seems to have congested the area and limited Hasahn's operating room.  And right now, he has no demonstrated mid-range game so it's even tougher, adding to his frustration.  If you are going to play high-low, French is better suited for the low, but Gordon seems to have the better moves and finishing qualities.  Hasahn on the perimeter is a turnover waiting to happen.  But as someone pointed out ... make some layups and some free throws and that's a 15-point win.  Any win is good right now.

Can Ford coach?  I think so.  The decision to go with Jacobs and let him play up to four fouls was necessary in order to keep Goodwin protected once he picked up his second.  The switch to the 1-3-1 zone trap worked well and seemed to catch Oregon State off guard.  Defense remains our forte and as many have pointed out, bring that every night and you have a solid chance to win.  I think the offensive schemes actually worked because we hit three pointers.  Guys have to apply their ability in such situations and take and make them.  I am still amazed at what refs call and what they don't.  That will never change.

On to Houston -- could be ugly.

disagree completely about Hankton.....

[HoosierPal]

52 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

...The injuries to the grad transfers have obviously weakened us.  The departures of front line players Santos and Welmer have weakened us.  Thank our lucky stars Thatch and Gordon are ready to play as freshmen.  Obviously Hankton and Jacobs are not.  Right now, Gudmundsson's schollie seems wasted.  And ditto for Hankton.

Welmer is still with the team. He has not departed.  Santos has departed.

Gudmundsson had appendicitis.  He had surgery.  Give him a break.  Hard to play with fresh stitches in your gut.  As of Friday he had not been cleared to practice.

Santos was the wasted scholarship.

52 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

. We all know last year, French did well inside taking it to the basket.  With Gordon down there with him, it seems to have congested the area and limited Hasahn's operating room.  And right now, he has no demonstrated mid-range game so it's even tougher, adding to his frustration.  If you are going to play high-low, French is better suited for the low, but Gordon seems to have the better moves and finishing qualities.  Hasahn on the perimeter is a turnover waiting to happen.

Agree that French is out of sorts.  Coach has to figure this out.

52 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

.Can Ford coach?  I think so.  The decision to go with Jacobs and let him play up to four fouls was necessary in order to keep Goodwin protected once he picked up his second.  The switch to the 1-3-1 zone trap worked well and seemed to catch Oregon State off guard.  Defense remains our forte and as many have pointed out, bring that every night and you have a solid chance to win.  I think the offensive schemes actually worked because we hit three pointers.  Guys have to apply their ability in such situations and take and make them.  I am still amazed at what refs call and what they don't.  That will never change.

Keeping Jacobs, an expendable resource, on the floor, instead of Goodwin is only common sense.  I could have made that decision.

Our 1-3-1 in on tape.  Every opponent knows we play it.  It didn't catch OSU off guard.  I did like how we went from the 1-3-1 into a man defense during the possession.

[billikenfan05]

9 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Thor just had surgery and my guess is he is not available.  The signing of Perkins makes me wonder about the future of Hankton, at least as a wing.  If Hankton has a future it may be converting him to a front court player.

I just think it's crazy to suggest that two freshmen that don't get in a game are wasted scholarships. They still offer value in practice(unfortunately Ingvi's appendix doesn't care about basketball) I think Hankton's future in the lineup if there is one is as a Cody Ellis type.

[billiken_roy]

37 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Get a grip on reality. You're overly pessimistic in this entire post but this is just a ridiculous take.

what about thor are you so excited about?   he appears to me to be walkon quality at best.   i would just as soon see either of the two walkons as thor in games.  and hankton is a step slow to play the wing and not strong enough to relieve the bigs.   he is also over his head.  but both likely serve as good practice players.  let them stay.  

[slu72]

As Hochman wrote this morning, JGood has to get back to being the JGood of last year. For whatever reason, he's out of sorts. 

A few things I didn't understand yesterday was Foreman getting the nod over Gordon. A discipline thing? Was Isabell on the bench in civies? I didn't see him. 

I do agree on French, but the opponents are packing it in so much King Kong would have trouble getting off a shot. 

And FT's continue to be a major problem. 49.6% from the line is pathetic for a 6th grade team. 

[billikenfan05]

8 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

what about thor are you so excited about?   he appears to me to be walkon quality at best.   i would just as soon see either of the two walkons as thor in games.  and hankton is a step slow to play the wing and not strong enough to relieve the bigs.   he is also over his head.  but both likely serve as good practice players.  let them stay.  

Why do I have to be excited? I’m not, but why are you expecting 9/10th player off the bench to excite you? Currently they are here for depth and practice. Will they develop? I hope so but if not they will transfer out and that’s okay too. 

[davidnark]

My take is that with our strength, defense, and athleticism we can probably compete with 98% of D1 teams. However, with an offense that isn't flowing, continued struggles on the fast break and free throw line, and no consistent outside shooting threats, we are going to struggle to pull away from anyone. I still like the pieces and hope and expect the offense will continue to improve. If Thatch finds a consistent outside shot and Thankton can learn to defend and rebound, it will really help.

I also agree it is silly to write-off freshmen as "wasted scholarships" when they are still adjusting to the change of pace and physicality of D1 and are trying to crack a lineup loaded with experienced players (including 4 5th year seniors). 

[VeniceMenace]

I think the offense is adjusting to the departure of Jalen Johnson. Wonder how much of an impact the weight loss and broken nose has been having on JGOOD. 

[cheeseman]

First, for about the 10th time - Isabell is hurt!  Second,  IG came in behind by staying in Iceland to play with his national team.  He started behind, he got further behind with the surgery, and he will end the year behind in all probability - give him a break until we see if he is still behind next year.  Third, unless the FT shooting improves dramatically, this team will continue to lose close games and make games closer than they need to be.  People say SLU is where jump shots come to die well you can absolutely say SLU is where FTs shooters come to die. Forman got the start because he must have earned it - too bad he had a weak game and we were stuck with Gordon and his clanking FT shot.  Everybody will foul him when he goes up for a lay up and know he will miss and the possession ends up with no points - at least if he could muscle the lay up in then his missing the FT is not so hurtful.  Fourth, Jacobs is not ready for D1 ball unless he has a huge transformation very soon - he is slight and gets pushed round very easily.  He is very tentative with his passing at least yesterday he was - a pg has to be decisive and strong enough to take the bump. Finally, not sure what we were promised about this team - I never heard Ford or May promise us anything but everybody playing hard.  No some may have promised themselves something but that is on them.

[SShoe]

The good thing with this team is that, outside of Bess, we haven't seen the best from pretty much anybody else on this roster.  Thatch and Gordon are having their moments, but they're still learning.  We know Goodwin, Foreman, and French can play better.  Wiley's hurt and I'm hopeful Isabelle will eventually find his role. 7-2 with an arrow that points up because of this team's immense potential is the positive. 

The negative is that we need to win tough games very soon because the opportunities will be more limited in conference play. 

[Box and Won]

Gordon's FT percentage is abysmal, but I believe it will improve.  Ford even said he's a better shooter than he has shown so far this year.

[SShoe]

1 minute ago, Box and Won said:

Gordon's FT percentage is abysmal, but I believe it will improve.  Ford even said he's a better shooter than he has shown so far this year.

His percentages were in the 70s in high school and the shot looks pretty good.  He'll hit more as the season progresses.  

[slufan13]

Gordon will be fine from the line. Struggled yesterday but he's a solid shooter.

[Quality Is Job 1]

1 hour ago, SLU_Nick said:

This team is really hard to figure out.  Without Thatch's rushed 3 with the shot clock running down we might be in meltdown mode right now.  

It is good we have an entire week to prepare for Houston.  At this point a loss at Houston and FSU is expected and exiting OOC with 3 losses is about as good as anyone could have hoped for given the Bills' inconsistency so far.  

Two more non-conf. losses will make 4, not 3.

[Quality Is Job 1]

18 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

First, for about the 10th time - Isabell is hurt!  Second,  IG came in behind by staying in Iceland to play with his national team.  He started behind, he got further behind with the surgery, and he will end the year behind in all probability - give him a break until we see if he is still behind next year.  Third, unless the FT shooting improves dramatically, this team will continue to lose close games and make games closer than they need to be.  People say SLU is where jump shots come to die well you can absolutely say SLU is where FTs shooters come to die. Forman got the start because he must have earned it - too bad he had a weak game and we were stuck with Gordon and his clanking FT shot.  Everybody will foul him when he goes up for a lay up and know he will miss and the possession ends up with no points - at least if he could muscle the lay up in then his missing the FT is not so hurtful.  Fourth, Jacobs is not ready for D1 ball unless he has a huge transformation very soon - he is slight and gets pushed round very easily.  He is very tentative with his passing at least yesterday he was - a pg has to be decisive and strong enough to take the bump. Finally, not sure what we were promised about this team - I never heard Ford or May promise us anything but everybody playing hard.  No some may have promised themselves something but that is on them.

Gordon hasn't been a bad FT shooter aside from yesterday, if I'm not mistaken.  The problem (especially yesterday), as I mentioned in the GDT, is that he's not yet conditioned to go hard for the length of time that he needs to to play 30 minutes a game at this level.  Prior to this year he would almost never have to play all that hard for as much time.  He's a good shooter; once he gets accustomed to 30-minutes-per-game energy expenditure, he'll get back to canning his FTs.

[billiken_roy]

4 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Gordon hasn't been a bad FT shooter aside from yesterday, if I'm not mistaken.  The problem (especially yesterday), as I mentioned in the GDT, is that he's not yet conditioned to go hard for the length of time that he needs to to play 30 minutes a game at this level.  Prior to this year he would almost never have to play all that hard for as much time.  He's a good shooter; once he gets accustomed to 30-minutes-per-game energy expenditure, he'll get back to canning his FTs.

this is a very good point i hadnt thought about.   +1

[cheeseman]

2 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Gordon hasn't been a bad FT shooter aside from yesterday, if I'm not mistaken.  The problem (especially yesterday), as I mentioned in the GDT, is that he's not yet conditioned to go hard for the length of time that he needs to to play 30 minutes a game at this level.  Prior to this year he would almost never have to play all that hard for as much time.  He's a good shooter; once he gets accustomed to 30-minutes-per-game energy expenditure, he'll get back to canning his FTs.

He is shooting 43% for the year - I would say that is bad.  Now yesterday was really bad.  If he is out of conditioned then get him on the bike or running sprints.  

[BIG BILL FAN]

58 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

what about thor are you so excited about?   he appears to me to be walkon quality at best.   i would just as soon see either of the two walkons as thor in games.  and hankton is a step slow to play the wing and not strong enough to relieve the bigs.   he is also over his head.  but both likely serve as good practice players.  let them stay.  

again, If Hankton proves that he can shoot, he will be a nice addition....nothing at all unusual about a big guy getting stronger and being very serviceable by their Jr year....

[dennis_w]

I wouldn't dismiss thor and hankton just yet. not many freshman can come in and play immediately.As much as we have needed shooters the last couple of years i think we should be patient and see  how they develope

[juniorbill76]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

As Hochman wrote this morning, JGood has to get back to being the JGood of last year. For whatever reason, he's out of sorts. 

A few things I didn't understand yesterday was Foreman getting the nod over Gordon. A discipline thing? Was Isabell on the bench in civies? I didn't see him. 

I do agree on French, but the opponents are packing it in so much King Kong would have trouble getting off a shot. 

And FT's continue to be a major problem. 49.6% from the line is pathetic for a 6th grade team. 

I believe I saw Isaabel at the end of halftime warmups, bouncing a basketball while walking to the bench, wearing sweats.