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Littlebill

GDT Rename them the Slukies

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Man this place is so depressing on bad nights.  Was this a bad loss?  No question but have to remember we only have 4 returning players from last year.  There will be bumps along the way, Ford said that nonstop before the season.  I also don't think having Isabel keep running the offense is the best.  Thatch has been getting better, need to get Jacobs more time and more chances to run the offense.  Coaches are high on him.  I think Ford has done a great job the last two years getting the most out of a team that has continued to improve through the year.  We still have some good games left with Oregon State and Florida State.  Let's win them both.

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5 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

I'm all for letting Isabel not play.

can we send him back to Drexel or Columbia?

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2 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Well that sucked we had a chance.

Fred Thatch is defense only and that is important, Fred could not score layups looked awful on the line and why dose he shoot 3"S?

The problem is scoring so I think we need less minutes from Thatch and more from Jacobs.

Our offense will look a lot better when Wiley comes back.

Our offense looks a lot better with a healthy Javon Bess.

If Bess is healthy we win.

Looking forward to being at the game on Sunday this season is far from over, the offseason is too long to give up on any Billikens team especially this team.

 

Thatch had some nice drives to the hoop, although he didn't finish that one near the end.  That's ok. It's playing to his ability on offense and I believe more often than not he'll be successful doing that.  

I have no clue what Jacobs can offer, but I want to see more. 

KC needs to get some energy and play D if he wants to see the court. 

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I really don't like how we setup our offense by doing handoffs at the top of the key. How about some pick and rolls...or something!!! We just stay put and expect something to happen. The guys are moving around, but not running a strategic play... this is why we cant make over 35% FG.

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Just now, EssEllYou said:

I really don't like how we setup our offense by doing handoffs at the top of the key. How about some pick and rolls...or something!!! We just stay put and expect something to happen. The guys are moving around, but not running a strategic play... this is why we cant make over 35% FG.

It's also why we're jacking up so many 3's. 

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I'll say one thing- KC had no problems jacking it up when he got in the game.  I know it's cliche, but this had trap game written all over it from the moment we beat Butler.  The Salukis have a fair amount of veteran talent, had relatively underachieved so far this year, and you know they had this one circled as a must win from the beginning of preseason.  Hopefully they go out and win the Valley; I think if Hinson can't get it done with this group he'll never do it.

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The offense scheme is bad. That’s not really a product of having new players. It’s the product of having a system that doesn’t work. 

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1 minute ago, RiseAndGrind said:

The offense scheme is bad. That’s not really a product of having new players. It’s the product of having a system that doesn’t work. 

This

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1 minute ago, moytoy12 said:

Thatch had some nice drives to the hoop, although he didn't finish that one near the end.  That's ok. It's playing to his ability on offense and I believe more often than not he'll be successful doing that.  

I have no clue what Jacobs can offer, but I want to see more. 

KC needs to get some energy and play D if he wants to see the court. 

Fred's offense is just plain bad Fred is a great defender, high energy guy and glad he is on the team however with Wiley out and Bess hurt we need more offense and I think Jacobs can do that even though he missed a dunk.

We are work in progress and I get the fans frustration I am all in but I am all in every season no matter what but when I compare the players this season to the last four this is a very exciting season because of the potential.

Regroup get ready for Oregon State I cannot wait.

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29 minutes ago, Pistol said:

@TheChosenOne just said the exact same thing to me in a text.

His decision making is really something. I was just telling TCO that I can't think of another veteran player I've seen with such bad instincts. In any situation, he makes the play that is least likely to lead to a good outcome. When we need to burn clock, he's firing away. When we need to catch up, he's dribbling aimlessly. When he's wide open, he dribbles into traffic. When he's guarded at the perimeter, he pulls back and shoots a fadeaway NBA 3. When he's double teamed, he dribbles backward. When someone else is double teamed, he passes to that guy.

His brain needs to be studied in a basketball lab. What is it that makes him always choose the wrong play?

It's what makes him look good when he scores or makes a nice play, because it always looks difficult.

This. I agree with those who have compared him to McBroom, except I would argue that McBroom at least contributed something (i.e., he could shoot). To me, it appears that Isabell is best suited to run a free wheeling street ball like offense. I don't know what Drexel ran, but I wonder if they were disorganized. When things are out of control, he contributes a bit. However, if we are going to be a good team, we should rarely be out of control.

The offense simply stagnates when he is in the game. Tonight, he let his bad offensive game turn into a horrendous defensive game. The Isabell at PG experiment needs to end. He simply does not appears to fit with this team and his incessant dribbling without any purpose eliminates any chance we have of getting into a good rhythm.

Moving forward there should be a reshuffling of the rotation:

Starters: Goodwin, Thatch, Bess, French, Gordon

Bench: Wiley (when he gets healthy), Isabell, Jacobs, and Foreman. I would also not be opposed to Jacobs taking Isabell's minutes as the season moves forward.

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1 minute ago, RiseAndGrind said:

The offense scheme is bad. That’s not really a product of having new players. It’s the product of having a system that doesn’t work. 

I feel like there's something more to it, though.

A lot of guys we saw play with confidence last season look so tentative this season.

The shot selection is poor across the board. Decision making is poor for the most part, too, led by Isabell's reckless abandon.

Ford comes off the floor and says exactly the things that we're all saying. He's got the diagnosis. I just don't know what he's doing to address these things.

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4 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

It's also why we're jacking up so many 3's. 

Amen. I want to see more of Goodwin taking the ball down and cutting to the hoop off a pick. He did some of this last year and it was effective. He plays so well when he knows he's running the offense instead of Isabell.  Isabell needs to be the SG that we kick the ball out to when he's wide open. 

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1 minute ago, kmbilliken said:

Goodwin's game is off. He is not the dominant player he was last year. That is a major impact. 

Because he is actually a true PG...he is not a SG in my opinion 

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Are we sacrificing this year so that Isabell can learn to be a PG?

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2 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I feel like there's something more to it, though.

A lot of guys we saw play with confidence last season look so tentative this season.

The shot selection is poor across the board. Decision making is poor for the most part, too, led by Isabell's reckless abandon.

Ford comes off the floor and says exactly the things that we're all saying. He's got the diagnosis. I just don't know what he's doing to address these things.

I don't know if I agree with that first bold statement as applied to the whole team - actually just Goodwin in my mind. Maybe I am wrong. 

The second bolded statement is infuriating. He is the coach. He needs to address these things more than in just a press conference. It's like when Mike Matheny or Mike Yeo would said "we need to have better effort..." then it never happens. I love Travis Ford, but, he's not making them better.

 

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20 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

At least McBroom hit 3's at a decent clip. 

 

1 minute ago, SouthSide_Billiken said:

This...except I would argue that McBroom at least contributed something (i.e., he could shoot). To me, it appears that Isabell is best suited to run a free wheeling street ball like offense. I don't know what Drexel ran, but I wonder if they were disorganized. When things are out of control, he contributes a bit. However, if we are going to be a good team, we should rarely be out of control.

The offense simply stagnates when he is in the game. Tonight, he let his bad offensive game turn into a horrendous defensive game. The Isabell at PG experiment needs to end. He simply does not appears to fit with this team and his incessant dribbling without any purpose eliminates any chance we have of getting into a good rhythm.

Moving forward there should be a reshuffling of the rotation:

Starters: Goodwin, Thatch, Bess, French, Gordon

Bench: Wiley (when he gets healthy), Isabell, Jacobs, and Foreman. I would also not be opposed to Jacobs taking Isabell's minutes as the season moves forward.

Only my first line was about McBroom. I thought it was interesting that he said it and it was posted here in such short order. The common thread seems to be undersized shooting guards who don't have good instincts. McBroom was a very good, consistent shooter, though, and was able to find his spots often times. Whereas Isabell is being relied upon as a primary ballhandler most of the time and just has no mind for it.

Isabell works at a place like Drexel, where he's not surrounded by guys as talented as he is, where he's not playing guys as talented as he is, and where he has a green light with no restrictions, to just kind of do what he wants and make plays. We saw his crazy high usage rate there. He was involved in every play. He rebounded his position extremely well. He had total freedom.

But when he comes to a place where he isn't option A and B, and where he's playing with and against players who are another notch up, he doesn't have the patience or instincts to fit in the flow of an offense, and he isn't a consistent enough shooter to just be primarily a perimeter threat. I don't know what the answer is for him. But I know I'd be focusing on Goodwin as the PG moving forward.

The whole recruitment of JG was about making him the lead guard to set him up for the next level. Why abandon that now? It's not like Isabell is some transcendent talent we absolutely need to run the show for a year. Keep developing Goodwin as the lead, and next year he'll have a backup with probably the purest point guard instincts I've ever seen in HS player, Yuri Collins. This PG-by-committe isn't working. TI as lead guard isn't working. Put Goodwin back there for good and cut him loose.

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1 minute ago, HoosierPal said:

Are we sacrificing this year so that Isabell can learn to be a PG?

Yes, I've learned that isabell is a decent 3pt shooter...so, fine, make him the SG...but make Goodwin the PG, who is not perfect, but plays with a lot of confidence and can drive to the hoop with energy...he creates plays...he can cut to the hoop, attract defenders, and dish if needed... the guy nearly got 2 triple doubles last year bc he led the offense...he needs to be in charge

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4 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I don't know if I agree with that first bold statement as applied to the whole team - actually just Goodwin in my mind. Maybe I am wrong. 

The second bolded statement is infuriating. He is the coach. He needs to address these things more than in just a press conference. It's like when Mike Matheny or Mike Yeo would said "we need to have better effort..." then it never happens. I love Travis Ford, but, he's not making them better.

Well, we only have 4 returners. Mainly Goodwin is who I'm talking about, but French has been really sloppy, constantly getting double teamed outside the post and turning it over out of indecisiveness. Foreman was a slow starter last year, probably due more to health than anything else, but he has not quite picked up where he left off last season.

It just isn't clicking yet. I don't know how you get a whole team to sync up and start making better decisions and playing with one another better. This isn't a shot making team so we have to win in other ways. I assumed this team would be tough in transition but we remain sloppy as ever on the fast break, even with numbers. It's perplexing.

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I had a bad experience listening to it in the radio, confusing and very much lacking in excitement. By what I heard, and I have not read this thread, it was a well played game with the exception that our shooting was pretty bad. This is a game that could easily have been won with a couple more baskets and a couple more free throws. Fletcher the "injured" top scorer for SIUC showed no evidence of his injury and played well. On the other hand Bess apparently played the whole game "on one leg" as the announcers said, and had a dismal scoring total (much below his normal). This was a winnable game, we could have won, but we did not. Fine, too bad. Now onto Oregon State next Wednesday. This was not a blow out loss, but it was a loss.

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If they are going to play at the same time then Goodwin needs to be the 2018 Jett and Isabell needs to be the 2018 McCall. Isabell can create some offense from the 2 spot just like McCall and hopefully play enough defense (McCall was a much better defender). Goodwin needs the keys to the offense just like Jett had. This Isabell-as-point-guard experiment needs to end. It’s hurting jgood’s game and the team overall.  If Isabell doesn’t like it, he can sit on the bench. 

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5 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

If they are going to play at the same time then Goodwin needs to be the 2018 Jett and Isabell needs to be the 2018 McCall. Isabell can create some offense from the 2 spot just like McCall and hopefully play enough defense (McCall was a much better defender). Goodwin needs the keys to the offense just like Jett had. This Isabell-as-point-guard experiment needs to end. It’s hurting jgood’s and the team overall.  If Isabell doesn’t like it, he can sit on the bench. 

Amen!

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I don't think it is fair to dump all this on Isabell. I saw a lot of crappy play last night by most of the team. I feel like Isabell has had more good passes than Goodwin this year, but admittedly not doing a great job at the point. The offense just sucks, period. It's like I'm watching the same crap I have been watching for 20 years. Great on defense, suck on offense....but we have exponentially more talent. I absolutely place some of the blame on the coach....but it is on all the players as well....plenty of open shots missed. They can't seem to execute anything. And free throws??? We hit them at a decent clip and we win the game. 

Whatever is going on needs to stop. There is a lot of mind games going on out there when a guy like Goodwin can't hit the broad side of the barn from the free throw line.We have world class defense. Top notch talent. Can't make a bucket even if we aren't being guarded.

I still feel this is going to come together, but it sure is frustrating right now. 

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