No Alabama from da' counch in MD ......

[Taj79]

.... wow.  Just wow!  As noted, I wanted a laugher.  Instead, I sit here today scratching my head trying to ascertain just WTF is happening right now.  My concerns from last year --- exterior shooting and free throw shooting --- linger.  I'll try not to target any individuals, as this is a team sport, but individual play must be examined. 

As a team, we all seemed incredibly sluggish from the get-go last night.  I know it must be hard to get up for a first-year D1 school like North Alabama but come on.  Once again, attendance was pitiful and not just the students.  I love seeing all those Billiken face stickers on the first few rows of seats behind Rammer and Earl.  Fox started with a shot of the students and Danny Mac saying "the students are here" but the reality is it was a close up and so tight, the empty stands were hidden.  The student section is so fickle.  You can't break away for three hours on a Tuesday night in November?  With free tickets? 

As was the case last year, I am having a hard time understanding just what the offense is designed to do.  I got it last year --- the weave was designed to occupy time and use clock because we were so thin.  Yet we still run that weave and the defense has yet to even bother to cover it.  They stand back at the free throw line and say "sure, weave all you want.  I'll rest here until you are ready to try something."  Seems to me once again there is a lot of opportunities to make the entry pass to the big at the free throw line in the 2/3 zones we're seeing.  Sometime we do, sometime we don't.  Foreman got that and drove at will to his left.  Carte'Are drove or popped a mid-range.  French played hi-low.  Bess had some nice pull-ups.  The way to beat a zone is to collapse the middle ----- instead we spend more time going side to side.  Ball movement is also key, but we seem to hold the ball a lot and then dribble-dribble-dribble.  There were a few times where I thought French was a little slow with the kick-out pass, but that spin to his right, baby hook shot was sweet in the second half.  A pro move. 

I have yet to see any signs of a fast break or a run-n-gun style.  The second half of the  Duquesne/UIC game was exhausting compared to this.  And when there is a fast break, the rebounder should clear the outlet pass (ever hear of Wes Unseld) to a guard on the wing who takes it to the middle with teammates filling the wings.  We spend far too much time dribbling sideways.  But in deference to our guys, so far, in these three games, I have seen our opponents send two men to the glass and three back to stop our breaks, however few there are.  This serves to stifle any free points and force us back to what we do least --- shooting.  Problem is we are letting the two give us an even battle or even win the board game.  I know the team is talking how they dominated the boards last year -- rather than doing, that's living on old press clippings.  And because our guards are such good rebounders, they are at the defensive end as well, negating our ability to run out all the same.  French's dunk and Gordon breakaway were examples of top-level defensive pressure that resulted in these opportunities.  And they are far and few between.  But we're up to two dunks on the year!

Our bigs were a combined 12-of-19 on the night shooting.  Strength?  Duh.  They were nine-of-15 at the line, 8-of-12 discounting French (he made one!).  This is a huge concern going forward.  Already it is starting to snowball and cause Ford to alter his best lineup, i.e. replacing French on the offensive end in closing out games.  You can say no one's thinking about missing free throws but they all are.  The purest shooter on the team, Wiley, went o-fer from the line.  And another poor shooting effort from deep.  Thatch might become a shooter -- but he ain't one right now.   Anybody know what Jacobs issue was?  I get not playing an injured Hankton and a questionable Thor right now in such a close game and as freshmen.    But this is where development occurs.  Looks like they will be retarded as Crawford was as a freshman.  No time for court learning.

I felt there was a point in the second half where we ran with a little more ease and freedom.  I think Isabell was getting a rest then but I am not so sure.  Isabell dropped a beautiful dime to Foreman for that first dunk.  He showed promise in doing so.  But that is the classic point guard --- where as the extended Euro-step layup in the second half is scorer mentality extraordinaire ---- it was good, but not reflective of a true point.  We have to have a happy medium in there somewhere.  I'll take the result sure, but it does server a capable demonstration of the differences between the two.  Hmark talked about how Ford has told Isabell that to play at the next level for pay -- wherever that may be -- will require Isabell at 6' to play point.  He won't make it as a two-guard.  I would say Isabell has heard that loud and clear --- and is suffering while trying to be a point and suffering as a scoring guy as well.  It has caused some indecision on his part it seems. 

Goodwin appeared lost.  I am assuming that too is part of our growing pains.  Balancing him and Isabell will of course be key going forward.  That's 'Captain Obvious.'  Goodwin seemed more capable of finding Bess at times last night better than anyone else.  The whole of the game seemed to be 'no flow.'  And maybe that's because right now, we seem so predictable.  Shut them off down low, foul the big guy and make them shoot from elsewhere.  On defense, we can't seem to stay with guys and when our bigs converge, the kick out is there.  Threes lead to long rebounds and our bigs have converged so they can't back out there.  If we pack it in, unlike our opposition, the three game is not our bigs' forte.  Goodwin needs th eball to drive an dscore or dish.  Ditto Isabell as he learns to dish.  There is only one ball. 

I am not surprised to be 3 and 0.  But rather than smug, I am obviously concerned.  Is it the level of competition?  Do we turn it up a notch because here comes the Hall?  Last night, Hmark said Gordon was gassed because he's not used to such big minutes.  Say what?  The kid played 18 minutes.  Against North Alabama.  He's what, 18, in the supposed best shape of his life and is gassed?  Where is off-season conditioning?  What's going to happen when Logan Windler is replaced by Rasheed Holloway?  Also, Hmark said Ford has installed only 40% of his offense.  Which part -- the part that doesn't work?  He has three days -- I say start over.  We are doing the same thing we have done for the last three years --- with supposedly the best accumulation of talent ever at Saint Louis U.  That just seems ..... off ..... like this whole team right now. 

The OOC is a time to find answers.  Right now, through three games, I have more questions then when we started.  Front row, baseline at the Hall.  Saturday night.  Game on Fox Sports 1 (I think).

 

 

[2010andBeyond]

There is clearly something wrong with this team and I hope it get fixed soon or I fear that it will have impacts beyond this season. 

[moytoy12]

21 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

.... wow.  Just wow!  As noted, I wanted a laugher.  Instead, I sit here today scratching my head trying to ascertain just WTF is happening right now.  My concerns from last year --- exterior shooting and free throw shooting --- linger.  I'll try not to target any individuals, as this is a team sport, but individual play must be examined. 

As a team, we all seemed incredibly sluggish from the get-go last night.  I know it must be hard to get up for a first-year D1 school like North Alabama but come on.  Once again, attendance was pitiful and not just the students.  I love seeing all those Billiken face stickers on the first few rows of seats behind Rammer and Earl.  Fox started with a shot of the students and Danny Mac saying "the students are here" but the reality is it was a close up and so tight, the empty stands were hidden.  The student section is so fickle.  You can't break away for three hours on a Tuesday night in November?  With free tickets? 

As was the case last year, I am having a hard time understanding just what the offense is designed to do.  I got it last year --- the weave was designed to occupy time and use clock because we were so thin.  Yet we still run that weave and the defense has yet to even bother to cover it.  They stand back at the free throw line and say "sure, weave all you want.  I'll rest here until you are ready to try something."  Seems to me once again there is a lot of opportunities to make the entry pass to the big at the free throw line in the 2/3 zones we're seeing.  Sometime we do, sometime we don't.  Foreman got that and drove at will to his left.  Carte'Are drove or popped a mid-range.  French played hi-low.  Bess had some nice pull-ups.  The way to beat a zone is to collapse the middle ----- instead we spend more time going side to side.  Ball movement is also key, but we seem to hold the ball a lot and then dribble-dribble-dribble.  There were a few times where I thought French was a little slow with the kick-out pass, but that spin to his right, baby hook shot was sweet in the second half.  A pro move. 

I have yet to see any signs of a fast break or a run-n-gun style.  The second half of the  Duquesne/UIC game was exhausting compared to this.  And when there is a fast break, the rebounder should clear the outlet pass (ever hear of Wes Unseld) to a guard on the wing who takes it to the middle with teammates filling the wings.  We spend far too much time dribbling sideways.  But in deference to our guys, so far, in these three games, I have seen our opponents send two men to the glass and three back to stop our breaks, however few there are.  This serves to stifle any free points and force us back to what we do least --- shooting.  Problem is we are letting the two give us an even battle or even win the board game.  I know the team is talking how they dominated the boards last year -- rather than doing, that's living on old press clippings.  And because our guards are such good rebounders, they are at the defensive end as well, negating our ability to run out all the same.  French's dunk and Gordon breakaway were examples of top-level defensive pressure that resulted in these opportunities.  And they are far and few between.  But we're up to two dunks on the year!

Our bigs were a combined 12-of-19 on the night shooting.  Strength?  Duh.  They were nine-of-15 at the line, 8-of-12 discounting French (he made one!).  This is a huge concern going forward.  Already it is starting to snowball and cause Ford to alter his best lineup, i.e. replacing French on the offensive end in closing out games.  You can say no one's thinking about missing free throws but they all are.  The purest shooter on the team, Wiley, went o-fer from the line.  And another poor shooting effort from deep.  Thatch might become a shooter -- but he ain't one right now.   Anybody know what Jacobs issue was?  I get not playing an injured Hankton and a questionable Thor right now in such a close game and as freshmen.    But this is where development occurs.  Looks like they will be retarded as Crawford was as a freshman.  No time for court learning.

I felt there was a point in the second half where we ran with a little more ease and freedom.  I think Isabell was getting a rest then but I am not so sure.  Isabell dropped a beautiful dime to Foreman for that first dunk.  He showed promise in doing so.  But that is the classic point guard --- where as the extended Euro-step layup in the second half is scorer mentality extraordinaire ---- it was good, but not reflective of a true point.  We have to have a happy medium in there somewhere.  I'll take the result sure, but it does server a capable demonstration of the differences between the two.  Hmark talked about how Ford has told Isabell that to play at the next level for pay -- wherever that may be -- will require Isabell at 6' to play point.  He won't make it as a two-guard.  I would say Isabell has heard that loud and clear --- and is suffering while trying to be a point and suffering as a scoring guy as well.  It has caused some indecision on his part it seems. 

Goodwin appeared lost.  I am assuming that too is part of our growing pains.  Balancing him and Isabell will of course be key going forward.  That's 'Captain Obvious.'  Goodwin seemed more capable of finding Bess at times last night better than anyone else.  The whole of the game seemed to be 'no flow.'  And maybe that's because right now, we seem so predictable.  Shut them off down low, foul the big guy and make them shoot from elsewhere.  On defense, we can't seem to stay with guys and when our bigs converge, the kick out is there.  Threes lead to long rebounds and our bigs have converged so they can't back out there.  If we pack it in, unlike our opposition, the three game is not our bigs' forte.  Goodwin needs th eball to drive an dscore or dish.  Ditto Isabell as he learns to dish.  There is only one ball. 

I am not surprised to be 3 and 0.  But rather than smug, I am obviously concerned.  Is it the level of competition?  Do we turn it up a notch because here comes the Hall?  Last night, Hmark said Gordon was gassed because he's not used to such big minutes.  Say what?  The kid played 18 minutes.  Against North Alabama.  He's what, 18, in the supposed best shape of his life and is gassed?  Where is off-season conditioning?  What's going to happen when Logan Windler is replaced by Rasheed Holloway?  Also, Hmark said Ford has installed only 40% of his offense.  Which part -- the part that doesn't work?  He has three days -- I say start over.  We are doing the same thing we have done for the last three years --- with supposedly the best accumulation of talent ever at Saint Louis U.  That just seems ..... off ..... like this whole team right now. 

The OOC is a time to find answers.  Right now, through three games, I have more questions then when we started.  Front row, baseline at the Hall.  Saturday night.  Game on Fox Sports 1 (I think).

 

 

Great post and summation.

[Bills_06]

15 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Also, Hmark said Ford has installed only 40% of his offense.  Which part -- the part that doesn't work?  He has three days -- I say start over.  We are doing the same thing we have done for the last three years --- with supposedly the best accumulation of talent ever at Saint Louis U.  That just seems ..... off ..... like this whole team right now. 

It was Danny Mac who said it and he got it from Ford on his podcast.  He said they are very limited offensive package with what they have implemented, this is the lowest ever.  They are more concerned with getting better with pace of offensive play.  He thinks they are too stagnant and lethargic in the half court.  They are thinking too much over playing, cutting and moving.  He will add plays periodically as they progress to try and help individuals as he learns some of his new players.  

[slu72]

It' s on FS2. Good analysis, Taj Mahal 79. I'll say it again what is of concern was our poor rebounding. NBama played a lot of FR and took away our strength? Sorry, I don't get that except a lack of energy and desire on our part. Ford's got to do something to light a fire under these guys, and it better start in Jersey. Elsewise, we're gonna get blown out, and I don't think we can attribute that to our learning curve. From Stu's article these guys know something's wrong right now. Foreman basically stated these games should not have been nail biters, and they expected to win going away last night. Yet we can't seem to shake these buy games. One thing I noticed is there's no excitement coming from the bench like there was last year. Guys would jump and applaud when we got a hoop, that's been missing so far. I don't know if bench cheerleading means diddly squat but know it can't hurt.

I would hate to see Team Blue become Team Blew it, but right now that's seems a real possibility. We should be excited after a 3-0 start and getting ready to take on a Beast team. The feeling on the board, however, is we wish we were playing another sacrificial lamb on Sat night.

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

 

We have played garbage d1 teams so far. Nobody is going to be jumping off the bench in celebration when you get a bucket against North Alabama or Troy. The first real game of the season is Saturday. If we are still lethargic for that game than it will take more time for this team to mesh.  Let's just wait and judge this team on games that have comparable talent. 

I really think the game will play faster against better teams and we will be able to push the tempo more. They are going to have much more adrenaline playing away from our lethargic fan base against a bigger name school.

All y'all need to chill the fuok out. You guys sound like fan girls of that twilight movie choosing sides between Goodwin and Isabell in the GDT. We are 3-0.  This team is going to take time to come together. Have patience.

[brianstl]

I actually feel somewhat better about last night with a little time to think about it and taking a look at some of the numbers.  Outside of 3 point shooting the offense was definitely taking a step in the right direction last night in the second half.  We shot 59% percent in the second half.  I think we averaged a point per possession in the second half last night.  Not great, but better than last season and definitely better than what we got in the first 5 halves of basketball this season.  That said, it was a weak opponent and I think we took a step back defensively in the second half.

I just think the second half will give them something to build off on the offense going forward and that is important.  That is much harder for this team to fix than the defense.

[moytoy12]

8 minutes ago, brianstl said:

 

I just think the second half will give them something to build off on the offense going forward and that is important.  That is much harder for this team to fix than the defense.

Agreed.  I’m not too concerned about our defense.  We have plenty of guys who have shown they can play defense when motivated. It’s tough to be motivated on D against N Alabama. 

[slu72 fan]

I think it is likely that we will continue to play ugly basketball. I'm totally fine with that, if the team continues to Improve and has success on the floor. We are not a pretty team. To be successful, we'll need to defend, rebound and be very tough. Similar to the Cincy teams that I always hated, but respected.

We are not a three point shooting team, our passes aren't eye-popping, we don't alley-oop.

We are what we are, lets just be great at it.

[Quality Is Job 1]

So, @Taj79, is a counch a sofa shaped like a shell?  Is it comfy?

[CBFan]

32 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

 

We have played garbage d1 teams so far. Nobody is going to be jumping off the bench in celebration when you get a bucket against North Alabama or Troy. The first real game of the season is Saturday. If we are still lethargic for that game than it will take more time for this team to mesh.  Let's just wait and judge this team on games that have comparable talent. 

I really think the game will play faster against better teams and we will be able to push the tempo more. They are going to have much more adrenaline playing away from our lethargic fan base against a bigger name school.

All y'all need to chill the fuok out. You guys sound like fan girls of that twilight movie choosing sides between Goodwin and Isabell in the GDT. We are 3-0.  This team is going to take time to come together. Have patience.

I agree I was the only person yelling at the refs from section 210 and it was so quiet that I think they could have heard me.

I bought two extra season tickets to bring in new fans but it has been hard to find someone that wants to go, I did find someone on this site that took my tickets for last nights game.

The only way we get more fans interested and a loud crowd is to win a lot then I feel people will start asking me for the tickets instead of me looking for someone to take them.

I am glad I am not alone feeling good about our team with some concerns based on the offense.

I like Isabell, he stepped threw a couple of traps last night and I love that he has the scorers mentality.  I am confident with Isabell at the free throw line at the end of the game.  I want Isabell and Goodwin on the floor together and better things will eventually happen the more games and practice they play.

[Brighton]

As much as it pains me to say this, St. Louis is a bandwagon town.

Listening to last night's game was like listening to a game from circa 1984 at the old Kiel. It was baaaaaaaad.

[Taj79]

moy -- thanks.   And .................... ball game!'

thicks -- happy fingers.  Conch is good; counch not so much.

[Spoon-Balls]

The continued lack of school spirit on SLU's campus is embarrassing. 

Also, I still think the mask is hampering Goodwin's level of play.