Signed Recruit Thread 2018-19

[cheeseman]

4 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

Gordon didn't take many 3s in HS, but I don't think we have the data from HS to say that he isn't a 3 pt shooter.  Here are the stats:

2014-15 Vianney 0-1 0%

2015-16 Vianney 2-4 50%

2016-17 Webster 0-0 n/a%

2017-18 Webster 0-6 0%

Total 2 - 11 18%

Just like you're not willing to say Gordon is a decent shooter because he is 2-5 so far, I'm not willing to write him off after a 2-11 performance over 4 years in HS.  These sample sizes are too small and spread over too many years to matter at all.  He likely didn't shoot at all in HS because he didn't have to.  His size / athleticism in HS allowed him to dominate the paint in a way that going outside didn't make sense.  I'm not sure we can say the same in college (yet).  His HS teams also perhaps had better shooters around him to space the floor and/or spacing the floor isn't as important in HS.  Further, we don't know what kind of work Gordon put in on his outside shot between his senior year and now.

This is a secondary concern for sure, but if Gordon is going to have any kind of NBA career he is going to have to be able to knock down 3 pointers at a decent rate.  He's undersized as an inside player by NBA standards and won't have the athleticism advantage he enjoys in college.  Therefore, he should be working on his shot for the sake of his professional future.  That's not to say I want freshman year Gordon jacking up a bunch of 3s every game.  However, if he has worked or continues to work on his shot and can make them at a decent clip, then why not.  We need to be able to space the floor better than we currently do.

Gordon (if he can can knock down 3s at even a slightly below average rate) with the current SLU team is a little bit like Joel Embiid with the 76ers.  Emiid's bread and butter isn't shooting 3s, but the 76ers need him to pop those open 3s in order to space the floor because he is surrounded by other non-shooters like Ben Simmons.

If he could hit the 3 on a consistent basis he would have taken more than 11 shots over 5 years.  He is not a 3 point shooter and hoping he is won't make it so.

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

56 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

If he could hit the 3 on a consistent basis he would have taken more than 11 shots over 5 years.  He is not a 3 point shooter and hoping he is won't make it so.

Well he's going to need to be able to hit that shot to play at the next level. I'm sure it's something he will work on over the next few years. His shot looks great. Rather see a Gordon three than a turnover.

[slusam]

12 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Well he's going to need to be able to hit that shot to play at the next level. I'm sure it's something he will work on over the next few years. His shot looks great. Rather see a Gordon three than a turnover.

Highmark has said on telecasts that he hits them at practice. I think i also remember Ford saying it. I would think you will see him shoot more in games.

[almaman]

3 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

He's 2-5 so far. We'll never know if he can keep it up. I'm willing to take a tiny  risk.

his form seems good.

[Cowboy]

-if CAG making 3's this season is among our keys to success I don;t like our chances

[slufanskip]

4 hours ago, slusam said:

Highmark has said on telecasts that he hits them at practice. I think i also remember Ford saying it. I would think you will see him shoot more in games.

Ford did say he has the ability to hit the 3. I don't mind him taking the occasional 3, however I'd rather him work on shooting 70% from the line. For the life of me I don't understand any D1 player not bein g able to shoot free throws at a 70% clip. 

[almaman]

36 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Ford did say he has the ability to hit the 3. I don't mind him taking the occasional 3, however I'd rather him work on shooting 70% from the line. For the life of me I don't understand any D1 player not bein g able to shoot free throws at a 70% clip. 

Indeed. FC had Highmark and the KU Robertson on and asked what they would get with 100 shots from the line and both said 80% or better now!

[ACE]

19 hours ago, cheeseman said:

If he could hit the 3 on a consistent basis he would have taken more than 11 shots over 5 years.  He is not a 3 point shooter and hoping he is won't make it so.

Anthony Davis only made 3 of 20 3-point attempts during his college career. Last year in the NBA, he shot 162 -3-pointers and made 55 of them. The point is, players can evolve - the really good ones usually do. If CG wants any kind of basketball future, that shot will need to be part of his game.

[cgeldmacher]

For those that seem to be so against the idea of Gordon taking 3 pointers, please understand that no one advocating for it is suggesting that his is made a part of our game plan.  We're just suggesting, and I think 05 said this, that there are times when our regular movement of the ball puts the ball in his hands at the three point line.  When this happens, his defender is usually backing off of him, clogging the lane and taking away passes inside.  When that happens, why not take a shot at it.  So far, that's given us 6 points in five shot attempts.  That's much better than the average of what has happened when he doesn't take that shot.  If he makes it or he doesn't (once, maybe twice a game), then at least the guy guarding him has to think about the possibility of him taking a three the next time he's in the same spot.

[cheeseman]

Nobody is saying that Gordon should not attempt to develop a 3 pt shot in his career but that expecting him to be the one who is going to start busting 3 ptrs  to open the lane up now is a bit of a fantasy.  

[cgeldmacher]

Again, nobody is expecting that.  We're just saying he should take one maybe two a game when he's open.  It's not going to change the course of the season, but every little bit helps.

[billikenfan05]

2 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Nobody is saying that Gordon should not attempt to develop a 3 pt shot in his career but that expecting him to be the one who is going to start busting 3 ptrs  to open the lane up now is a bit of a fantasy.  

You are taking our words and exaggerating what we're saying. There's nuance to what we're saying that you are overlooking. He's not going to be Rob Loe or Cody Ellis but if he can show the ability and willingness to take jump shots that forces his defender to play closer to him giving him more opportunity to put the ball on the floor.

[3star_recruit]

55 minutes ago, ACE said:

Anthony Davis only made 3 of 20 3-point attempts during his college career. Last year in the NBA, he shot 162 -3-pointers and made 55 of them. The point is, players can evolve - the really good ones usually do. If CG wants any kind of basketball future, that shot will need to be part of his game.

NBA players have highly paid shooting coaches whose job it is to make the team's $10-$20 million investment into a decent perimeter shooter.  And even with those coaches, it takes 3-4 years as a professional before an Anthony Davis or a Julius Randle is a threat from out there. Evolution means years, not weeks.

[ACE]

5 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

NBA players have highly paid shooting coaches whose job it is to make the team's $10-$20 million investment into a decent perimeter shooter.  And even with those coaches, it takes 3-4 years as a professional before an Anthony Davis or a Julius Randle is a threat from out there. Evolution means years, not weeks.

Of course, but it is something Gordon should and IS currently working on. Ford himself has said this. I'm not expecting overnight success, but incremental improvement.

[3star_recruit]

So what this ultimately comes down to is timeframe.  Coach Ford has given his center, who basically never shot the 3 in high school, permission to shoot the three occasionally.  He'll probably end up with 15-18 attempts this season.  That's already more attempts than his entire high school career.  Maybe next year, that number doubles.  That's incremental improvement.  

Right now, we're just debating the length of the increment.  Ford is an old-fashioned basketball coach.  I think what he means by increment and what fans mean by increment are two different things.

[RiseAndGrind]

LOL the season is going so great we are debating Gordon shooting 3s. GREATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[billiken_roy]

49 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Again, nobody is expecting that.  We're just saying he should take one maybe two a game when he's open.  It's not going to change the course of the season, but every little bit helps.

my question is "why is he even in a spot to receive the ball 20+ feet from the basket?"

[slu72]

No problem with a big being 20' from the basket. Especially one as mobile as Gordon. Foreman's out there all the time then plows into a traffic jam. Loe used to be that far out a lot in Rick's offense to clear the inside for Jett and Evans to do their thing. Gordon needs to be coached on what to do out there. I'm for anything that pulls some bigs out to follow him. But since most teams zone us not sure this will work as the'll use quick guards to harass him. 

[willie]

3 minutes ago, slu72 said:

No problem with a big being 20' from the basket. Especially one as mobile as Gordon. Foreman's out there all the time then plows into a traffic jam. Loe used to be that far out a lot in Rick's offense to clear the inside for Jett and Evans to do their thing. Gordon needs to be coached on what to do out there. I'm for anything that pulls some bigs out to follow him. But since most teams zone us not sure this will work as the'll use quick guards to harass him. 

Foreman can still beat his man and get to the rim but for whatever reason he can't convert. last year he made those shots. Everything is a brick. I don't get the regression . 

[ACE]

20 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

my question is "why is he even in a spot to receive the ball 20+ feet from the basket?"

Several reasons - he could have just set a pick. He's also a pretty good passer, so it might be a way to clear out space in the middle if French has a mismatch and Gordon can dump it down to him in the paint and it could also be an opportunity for Gordon to beat a less mobile big off the dribble - Ford seems to like our bigs doing exactly that when given the opportunity.

[billikenfan05]

10 minutes ago, willie said:

Foreman can still beat his man and get to the rim but for whatever reason he can't convert. last year he made those shots. Everything is a brick. I don't get the regression . 

You can be struggling. It doesn't have to be "regression". It seems like he is converting and when he's getting fouled he does shoot at a clip that's not bad. I think a lot of the criticism being drawn is because we are paying such close attention and we're focusing on the shortcomings.

[Compton]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

my question is "why is he even in a spot to receive the ball 20+ feet from the basket?"

He's a versatile player. 

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, Compton said:

He's a versatile player. 

Who isnt in rebounding position.

[NextYearBill]

4 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

my question is "why is he even in a spot to receive the ball 20+ feet from the basket?"

same with French... i hate when they catch the ball at the top of the key

[Clock_Tower]

8 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

NBA players have highly paid shooting coaches whose job it is to make the team's $10-$20 million investment into a decent perimeter shooter.  And even with those coaches, it takes 3-4 years as a professional before an Anthony Davis or a Julius Randle is a threat from out there. Evolution means years, not weeks.

Exactly.

Ford is giving him freedom.  Not sure what more people want.  A top shooting center is not required to create room in the lane -- in fact, multiple outside perimeter and mid-range shooters will open up the lane much more.

As to centers receiving the ball on the outside/20 feet away, happens all the time.  And most centers don't even look to shoot.  And most defenders slack off.   Just drawing the  defender out to 12 feet (8  foot slacked off Gordon) helps open up the lane.  Quick passing, ball rotation, picks are what's then needed -- not making the defender going out even further.