Signed Recruit Thread 2018-19

[RUBillsFan]

16 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

That"s why I've been supportive of a grad transfer big for the past two months. You're not holding back a project big's development. They take forever to develop anyway.

But guards are different. When's the last time we had a guard become an all-conference player who only played 10 minutes a game as a freshman? It doesn't happen at SLU and it rarely happens at any other mid-major either. If you're not playing, you're going to get passed by other guards in the conference who are.

I agree that guards who go on to be mid-major all conference players usually play more than 10 mins/game as freshman.  However, to say that it doesn't happen is simply not true.  I'd also argue that the 20ish minutes/game that Thatch got is typical for talented freshmen guards at consistently good mid-major programs.  Recent examples of an A10 all conference guards who played ~20/game as freshmen are Shavar Newkirk and Ronald Roberts at St Joes, Jack Gibbs at Davidson, Marquise Moore at George Mason, Tu Holloway and Mark Lyons at Xavier and Juan Fernandez at Temple.  Scoochie Smith at Dayton, Melvin Johnson and Treveon Graham at VCU, and Tyler Kalinoski at Davidson played ~17/game as  freshmen.  JeQuan Lewis at VCU played 16/game.  Shawndre' Jones at Richmond and Ramone Moore at Temple played less than 14/game.  Darient Brothers at Richmond played less than 5 min/game as a freshman.  Khalif Wyatt at Temple only played in 10 games and got less than 2 min/game as a freshmen and then 20/game as a soph.  I admit there are just as many or more examples of all conference guards who did play 25/30 minutes as freshman (Kwamain & Jordair would be our examples), but I think my list above shows that it isn't "rare" for it to be the other way.

I'd also argue that the reason it doesn't happen more often is that mid-majors have trouble stacking talented classes, so you typically have a talented guard who gets big minutes his freshman year because there are no other options.  Then that team has trouble recruiting talented guards because they have no playing time to offer.  It has less to do with young guards needing to get big minutes early to develop into better players and everything to do with those guards choosing a place where they will be able to play right away.

You don't see regular conference bottom feeders like Fordham on the list above.  Teams that pop up to the top of the conference once in awhile (Duquesne, GW, us) but aren't consistently near the top don't show up much on the list either.  If SLU wants to be consistently good, talented freshmen guards will typically get 15 - 20 mins/game and wait their turn behind more experienced upperclassmen who are better at that time.  The key is getting & keeping those talented freshmen guards when you can't offer 30+ minutes per game.

Further, the grad transfer thing is relatively new.  It hasn't really born itself out yet whether adding grad transfers so you don't have to rely on big minutes from freshmen guards is a good or bad strategy long term.

[slu72]

2 GTs at the most. A 4 and 5 preferably. Ideally a 4 that can stretch the floor, i.e. What we were hoping for with Wellmer. A banger 5 who can board, play D, and hit FTs. Mil more guards or wings, or else we end up ticking off the FR. Think like Rick, develop these kids. 

[slu72]

No more guards. 

[wgstl]

10 minutes ago, slu72 said:

No more guards. 

*unless, they're ok with red-shirting. 

[wgstl]

13 minutes ago, slu72 said:

2 GTs at the most. A 4 and 5 preferably. Ideally a 4 that can stretch the floor, i.e. What we were hoping for with Wellmer. A banger 5 who can board, play D, and hit FTs. Mil more guards or wings, or else we end up ticking off the FR. Think like Rick, develop these kids. 

at this point in time we need a 5 more than a 4, unless its like DJ who sorta played the 4.    Im not sure jimmy plays at all next year, and if he does that probably means we have a short bench again.

 

we'll see a lot of 4 guard line up's next year. 

[ACE]

11 minutes ago, slu72 said:

No more guards. 

You do know we have at least 3 more scholarships to fill. There is room for one more guard.

Goodwin, Thatch, Collins and Jimmerson - I'd like one more guy I could count on to shoot. And I'm still not sure what Jacobs can bring to the table.

[moytoy12]

8 minutes ago, ACE said:

You do know we have at least 3 more scholarships to fill. There is room for one more guard.

Goodwin, Thatch, Collins and Jimmerson - I'd like one more guy I could count on to shoot. And I'm still not sure what Jacobs can bring to the table.

Agreed.  Man, in a perfect world, Jacobs will be a steady backup pg with a decent shooting stroke. 

[Matty Light]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

That"s why I've been supportive of a grad transfer big for the past two months. You're not holding back a project big's development. They take forever to develop anyway.

But guards are different. When's the last time we had a guard become an all-conference player who only played 10 minutes a game as a freshman? It doesn't happen at SLU and it rarely happens at any other mid-major either. If you're not playing, you're going to get passed by other guards in the conference who are.

It would have probably been Jordair Jett, but Situation 1 forced him into more minutes with Kwamain out.

[Billiken Rich]

31 minutes ago, wgstl said:

at this point in time we need a 5 more than a 4, unless its like DJ who sorta played the 4.    Im not sure jimmy plays at all next year, and if he does that probably means we have a short bench again.

I've never "seen the kid play" but why would you say Bell may not play at all next year?  

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, Billiken Rich said:

I've never "seen the kid play" but why would you say Bell may not play at all next year?  

it seems like hes a project player.  I shouldnt say not play at all, but he should be your 3rd string center.  Im worried if hes the #2 big. He still has a way to go. 

[Billiken Rich]

3 minutes ago, wgstl said:

it seems like hes a project player.  I shouldnt say not play at all, but he should be your 3rd string center.  Im worried if hes the #2 big. He still has a way to go. 

I get that and I get that he has majorly transformed his body into shape but I hadn't heard he was that much of a project.  If he can spell Has' once in a while and if Hankton can put on some muscle and Hargrove can come in a bang some too and we can get a >= Rasheed Anthony  grad transfer I'll be pretty happy, especially if Perkins can shoot and Jimerson can bust up a zone.......

 

[billikenfan05]

5 minutes ago, wgstl said:

it seems like hes a project player.  I shouldnt say not play at all, but he should be your 3rd string center.  Im worried if hes the #2 big. He still has a way to go. 

Bell is going to be a 19 year old freshman like Jimerson I think. He may not be ready as far as playing shape but man does he have a college ready build

[Old guy]

We will probably see all of the new recruits playing for some minutes at the very least in a number of the early non conference games next season. This will be interesting to see.

[wgstl]

4 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Bell is going to be a 19 year old freshman like Jimerson I think. He may not be ready as far as playing shape but man does he have a college ready build

I keep forgetting he had that prep year

[HoosierPal]

56 minutes ago, ACE said:

You do know we have at least 3 more scholarships to fill. There is room for one more guard.

Goodwin, Thatch, Collins and Jimmerson - I'd like one more guy I could count on to shoot. And I'm still not sure what Jacobs can bring to the table.

Who is Jimmerson?

[Billiken Rich]

15 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Who is Jimmerson?

I get it but the other option is calling him GJ which sounds like a speech impediment.  Maybe Gibby?  What was his highschool nickname?

[HoosierPal]

20 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

I get it but the other option is calling him GJ which sounds like a speech impediment.  Maybe Gibby?  What was his highschool nickname?

Spelling the signed recruit's name properly isn't an option?

[Billiken Rich]

1 minute ago, HoosierPal said:

Spelling the signed recruit's name properly isn't an option?

It is but not every fan is fanatical about spelling.  It is a loosing proposition to loose your mind about it.  Lose and loose drive me nuts when they get used interchangeably but again, I'm not a fanatic about it.....

[Slu let the dogs out?]

8 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

It is but not every fan is fanatical about spelling.  It is a loosing proposition to loose your mind about it.  Lose and loose drive me nuts when they get used interchangeably but again, I'm not a fanatic about it.....

I usually don't care about minor spelling mishaps but the one that really bothers me is when people say "I could care less".

[Quality Is Job 1]

4 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

Yuri and TJ coming avoids the dreaded gap year, where in the past we almost always missed on stacking classes. We stacked with Bonner/Gray era, Highmark/Dobbs era, under Majerus via developing players, and now. Hopefully we can go from a two year stack of the past to an every year stacking recruit class.

When you stack multiple players each year in three or four successive classes, you suddenly are in the big dance for multiple consecutive years.

The stacked players and the program system make the Dance ticket inevitable. Retaining Ford, so we can continue stacking classes, and continue having the toughest team and best defense in the conference, while augmenting our shooting skills, is the yellow brick road.

 

3 hours ago, bauman said:

Sheltie, I agree with your concept about stacking classes being important to building a consistent, long-term program, much like the Gonzaga's/Xavier's/Nova's and I am excited about next year's class, but I don't think we are in year 3 of stacking classes.  Year one-yes (2 outstanding FR starters) year two - no (I can't say that as of what we know now it was a stackable class with just one contributor FT).  Next year (2019) looks great and let's hope he can bring in 2-3 really good players for the 2020 class 

Sheltie, I have thoughts similar to bauman's.  The 2018 class initially was "stacked" behind the 2017 class of Goodwin and French, but without Gordon it's a shell of itself, in terms of being top-shelf quality.

[3star_recruit]

3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Why would we want Carpenter (a 3 guard who will have 4 years of competition) if we already have Perkins, Hargrove, Jimerson, Thatch, Jacobs but not a GT guard (1 year of competition)?

Carpenter is a future stretch 4.  He's already 6'7 210.  A 6'7 225 lb power forward with his athleticism, post game and perimeter shooting is a damn tough cover.

[cgeldmacher]

2 hours ago, wgstl said:

*unless, they're ok with red-shirting. 

I'd rather bank the scholarship or us a GT than take a guy in the Spring whose talent level means that he needs to redshirt.  Ford will get a much better player in the Fall instead for the next class.

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

Forget about the freshmen playing early in the season, are KC and Jacobs going to play early in the season?

[3star_recruit]

2 hours ago, ACE said:

You do know we have at least 3 more scholarships to fill. There is room for one more guard.

Goodwin, Thatch, Collins and Jimmerson - I'd like one more guy I could count on to shoot. And I'm still not sure what Jacobs can bring to the table.

There's lots of sophomore shooting guards languishing at the end of P6 benches who will be transferring down this spring. Some of them will become the grad transfer hotshots everyone's fighting over two years from now. Pick one. We'll get two years of production instead of one.

[slu72]

2 hours ago, ACE said:

You do know we have at least 3 more scholarships to fill. There is room for one more guard.

Goodwin, Thatch, Collins and Jimmerson - I'd like one more guy I could count on to shoot. And I'm still not sure what Jacobs can bring to the table.

Has Jacobs transferred? That makes 5. Perkins and Hargrove are more like wings/PFs and add Hankton to that group. Bell and French for bigs. I see a need at both the 4 and 5 positions. That's 12. Maybe add another wing.