Billiken Rich Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/us/politics/devos-campus-sexual-assault.html Tonka and Glorydays2013 like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 32 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/us/politics/devos-campus-sexual-assault.html -this seems like a step to balance the scales of justice, I wish it would go another leap further and say leave the investigation to the police, then the school can discipline off their findings as I don't see how this "proposal" eliminates these offices at educational institutions whose job is to educate, not investigate -let me be clear, if someone commits abuse, they need to pay the price, no place for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon-Balls Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 While I'm not a huge fan of Devos, she and the Trump administration are getting it 100% right here. I think most Americans (except the radical femi-nazis) can all agree on this one. Glorydays2013 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSmetBilliken Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I admittedly don’t know what the previous rules called for on this issue were, but the last sentence was significant to me. It states that the accused is innocent until proven guilty. Based on my reading of SLU’s policy, along with an article quoting Weathers, I don’t believe that principle was followed on slu’s campus, as well as others around the country. Once a complaint was filed, the accused was guilty, because the language of the policy was such that it could find that consent didn’t occur easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsgo Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Yeahhhh this was about one year too late. I guess it all worked out though. Isabell and Wiley are probably at a similar level to Henriquez and Graves. Just a shame that the names of those young men are now tarnished forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 8 hours ago, gobillsgo said: Yeahhhh this was about one year too late. I guess it all worked out though. Isabell and Wiley are probably at a similar level to Henriquez and Graves. Just a shame that the names of those young men are now tarnished forever. Not to mention trashing our '17-18' season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 And here comes the expected backlash from the uninformed: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/31/devos-sexual-assault-investigation-changes/1157376002/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Look, until we see what they come up with I would not get too excited. Remember this is the group that can't shoot straight - just an objective observation nothing more. Given that the party in power has had a very checkered history involving women rights and protections you can see how most may be a bit skeptical. Also, because of how S2 went some may have a bias approach to the whole topic - we still do not know if the intent of the current process was really followed or not by SLU.. As I said, I prefer to wait to see what they actually come up with. Spoon-Balls and rgbilliken like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 S2 and other examples out there show that the system is out of whack right now and not doing a good enough job protecting the accused. I don't care who is fixing it. It just needs to be fixed. Regardless of someone's politics, I think we would agree that this problem was created when one party was in power. They may have been right in their intentions, but were wrong in their complete failure to implement protections for accused parties that our legal system has required since we have been a country. If Devos corrects the problem, then that's a good thing regardless of her politics. Billiken Rich likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: And here comes the expected backlash from the uninformed: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/31/devos-sexual-assault-investigation-changes/1157376002/ I wouldn't call a victim of Larry Nassar to be "uninformed." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Like any policy changes, the devils will be in the details. After observing last year's debacle, I have come to believe some changes are necessary. Like, don't allow just 1 person to make the rulings. But given this administration, I fear we'll just get a pendulum swing that takes it too far in the other direction. rgbilliken likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon-Balls Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, cheeseman said: Look, until we see what they come up with I would not get too excited. Remember this is the group that can't shoot straight - just an objective observation nothing more. Given that the party in power has had a very checkered history involving women rights and protections you can see how most may be a bit skeptical. Also, because of how S2 went some may have a bias approach to the whole topic - we still do not know if the intent of the current process was really followed or not by SLU.. As I said, I prefer to wait to see what they actually come up with. Good points. At this point if the current administration does anything correct, it will be by accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 From what I can tell so far, the new guidelines will: Narrow the definition of sexual assault Allow schools to choose their own standard of evidence ("preponderance of evidence" or "clear and convincing evidence") Limit schools' responsibility only to those incidents that occur on campus or in school-sanctioned programs Hold colleges accountable only for complaints via "official institutional channels" Allow both accused and accusers to sit in mediation together, and allow cross-examination of each other And this is just what is from the early report, so these aren't finalized and there may be more, or these may be slightly different. Reading through the list, I'm not sure these would've necessarily changed the outcome of SLU's case. I'm not entierly clear on whether the second point allows schools to raise the standard of evidence or requires them to do so; the articles I'm finding use language that makes it seem optional, but implies that most schools would do so in order to lessen liability. That's a big distinction because SLU could say "We're comfortable with the current standard" if they're not required to change. There's also the case that the complaints have to go through official channels, which could limit the people accusers could go to for reporting; in SLU's case, do the police count? I'm guessing it went through "official" channels after that, but I think the idea here is that an accuser can't just go to her RA, for example, and instead would have to go to a specific school official responsible for these incidents. And it's unclear if the mediation/cross-examination would've changed anything if a single person is making all the decisions in these cases, anyway. My read is that these guidelines as they currently stand likely wouldn't have changed things last season, and that they don't address the issues that affected the case here: namely, that one person can be responsible for the investigation, hearing, decision, and appeal (even if some of those were outsourced in the SLU case, they didn't have to be). So while I am not opposed to changing the current process that schools use, it doesn't seem like these new guidelines actually do that. They just make it harder to report an assault, give schools less liability, and put up protections for the accused. They seem to have misdiagnosed the problem and have offered solutions that will create many more problems. I'll wait until the final guidelines come out, but it doesn't look like they're headed down the right track to me. RUBillsFan likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorydays2013 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Hopefully this comes through. Don’t know why people are against it just because they have Trump Derrangement Syndrome. Billiken Rich likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppybeer Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Did you bother reading the post above you, it spells out quite nicely what problems people have with it. Not once was Trump mentioned. Quit watching Alex Jones videos, it'll warp your fragile little mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 This board sucks these days RiseOfTheBillikens and Littlebill like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WUH Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Pistol said: From what I can tell so far, the new guidelines will: Narrow the definition of sexual assault Allow schools to choose their own standard of evidence ("preponderance of evidence" or "clear and convincing evidence") Limit schools' responsibility only to those incidents that occur on campus or in school-sanctioned programs Hold colleges accountable only for complaints via "official institutional channels" Allow both accused and accusers to sit in mediation together, and allow cross-examination of each other The narrowed definition is in regards to sexual harassment rather than assault. The cross-examination becomes a mandate, depending on the institutional procedure though the proposed guidance talks about alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliKat Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Man I hate when we stray this far from basketball. I love my poli-talk.... but not here. I actually like most of you without opinions getting involved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 This was not intended to be a "trolling post" in any way. It's got little to do with the relative merits of Arne Duncan and Betsy Devos. It's got everything to do with college sports and what happened last year. If people here aren't adult enough to make sense of it then I'm not sure what else we can talk about...... Adman and rgbilliken like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.