Commission on College Basketball

[billiken_roy]

as i have been saying for years.   dont chase the money.   if some idiot shoe company or big booster wants to pay a kid let him.  

instead, police academics to the nth degree.   EVERY player will make academics ON THEIR OWN and pass their entrance test ON THEIR OWN and constantly be on pace to graduate with a LEGITIMATE degree and graduate on time.   if not, that is when the penalties come and they come hard.  

these kids should be true student athletes.   if they actually are only doing time in college to get to the professional ranks.  let them, rather make them go pro.   put real student athletes on each and every roster will change the character of college basketball and likely solve the problem.  

let the nba train their own rookies.  

[willie]

56 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

as i have been saying for years.   dont chase the money.   if some idiot shoe company or big booster wants to pay a kid let him.  

instead, police academics to the nth degree.   EVERY player will make academics ON THEIR OWN and pass their entrance test ON THEIR OWN and constantly be on pace to graduate with a LEGITIMATE degree and graduate on time.   if not, that is when the penalties come and they come hard.  

these kids should be true student athletes.   if they actually are only doing time in college to get to the professional ranks.  let them, rather make them go pro.   put real student athletes on each and every roster will change the character of college basketball and likely solve the problem.  

let the nba train their own rookies.  

While I agree with you on academics I don't on the money. It is a sham that a one and done's   can pass 6 hours in his first semester and never go to class again. As far as the money everyone should be paid the same or no one should be paid. If they really wanted to they could follow the money. If found guilty the Bill Self's of the world should be banned from coaching if their program is found in violation. Yes I know this is not going to happen but it should. 

[billiken_roy]

21 minutes ago, willie said:

While I agree with you on academics I don't on the money. It is a sham that a one and done's   can pass 6 hours in his first semester and never go to class again. As far as the money everyone should be paid the same or no one should be paid. If they really wanted to they could follow the money. If found guilty the Bill Self's of the world should be banned from coaching if their program is found in violation. Yes I know this is not going to happen but it should. 

i dont disagree but the ncaa has proven they dont have the horses to police everything.  so i am saying concentrate on changing the environment by policing to the nth degree academics.   i am betting making the student athlete actually be a true student athlete would drive the pseudo pro just waiting the mandatory wait period to get to the nba with no desire to be a student from the game.  

[TheChosenOne]

I would actually go the opposite and find a model that essentially pulls the revenue producing sports out of academics entirely. I don't know exactly how it would look, but basically all football and basketball players would have the equivalent of a full boat to be used whenever they want to be a student and wherever. Since these kids are pursuing their career playing the sport, let them do just that and focus fully on that and if they decide they want to take classes while doing so they can, but don't make it a requirement. And then when their playing career is done they have a scholarship that they can use at a school that fits their academic level (i.e. a kid who plays basketball at say Duke is most likely not a Duke caliber student, so let him go to a school that is more in line with their academic ability). Like I said, I don't know how this would work, but for me I don't see any reason to pretend like these guys are students although I do appreciate the bullsh!t narrative when Duke, Vanderbilt, or Notre Dame are playing (amazing how a kid's narrative can change based on the school he chooses on signing day). And if their ultimate career is being a basketball player, let them spend their time working to make that happen. No reason to create faux classes to get them thru and keep them eligible. College is the minor leagues for all intents and purposes for basketball and football. To me the issue is pretending that it was ever anything else. Money obviously changed the game, but at this point we might as well embrace it. Now if the model changes (i.e. a true minor leagues is created for football and basketball) I would be fine with making it more true student athletes, but I am afraid we are too far down the path to change college football and basketball too much (the $ is too big and everyone is getting what they want).

[billiken_roy]

31 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

I would actually go the opposite and find a model that essentially pulls the revenue producing sports out of academics entirely. I don't know exactly how it would look, but basically all football and basketball players would have the equivalent of a full boat to be used whenever they want to be a student and wherever. Since these kids are pursuing their career playing the sport, let them do just that and focus fully on that and if they decide they want to take classes while doing so they can, but don't make it a requirement. And then when their playing career is done they have a scholarship that they can use at a school that fits their academic level (i.e. a kid who plays basketball at say Duke is most likely not a Duke caliber student, so let him go to a school that is more in line with their academic ability). Like I said, I don't know how this would work, but for me I don't see any reason to pretend like these guys are students although I do appreciate the bullsh!t narrative when Duke, Vanderbilt, or Notre Dame are playing (amazing how a kid's narrative can change based on the school he chooses on signing day). And if their ultimate career is being a basketball player, let them spend their time working to make that happen. No reason to create faux classes to get them thru and keep them eligible. College is the minor leagues for all intents and purposes for basketball and football. To me the issue is pretending that it was ever anything else. Money obviously changed the game, but at this point we might as well embrace it. Now if the model changes (i.e. a true minor leagues is created for football and basketball) I would be fine with making it more true student athletes, but I am afraid we are too far down the path to change college football and basketball too much (the $ is too big and everyone is getting what they want).

so rather than be in the education business you want colleges and universities to go full boat into professional athletics and make it a priority (since their "employees will become probably amongst the highest paid employees at the company).   

 

Keep in mind the precedent this sets up for other benefits, and salary envy with other employees, etc.   i think you are opening a big can of worms beyond getting away from what the schools do best-educate.

[rgbilliken]

Here would by my ideal scenario:

- Schools pay the players a living wage. I received ~$25k stipend while I was in grad school for being a TA and research assistant. (Unpopular opinion among grad students, but athletes in revenue sports are probably(?) way more valuable to schools than I was as a grad student. Lol) This could be capped in a similar way to how pro sports organizations have salary caps.

- Remove restrictions on students making money by endorsements, etc. (Is there any reason for this to exist other than the NCAA doesn't want anyone making money off of "student" athletes other than themselves? I'm honestly asking.)

- Do something about one-and-dones. It is BS that the NBA outsources its training to college students who aren't getting paid.

- Do one or the other: either dispense with the notion that these athletes are students, and treat them like employees, or actually enforce the academics as roy suggested. But don't do this halfway-pretending that the academics are important and then doing nothing when schools like UNC are exposed.

[GBL_Bills]

36 minutes ago, rgbilliken said:

Here would by my ideal scenario:

- Schools pay the players a living wage. I received ~$25k stipend while I was in grad school for being a TA and research assistant. (Unpopular opinion among grad students, but athletes in revenue sports are probably(?) way more valuable to schools than I was as a grad student. Lol) This could be capped in a similar way to how pro sports organizations have salary caps.

- Remove restrictions on students making money by endorsements, etc. (Is there any reason for this to exist other than the NCAA doesn't want anyone making money off of "student" athletes other than themselves? I'm honestly asking.)

- Do something about one-and-dones. It is BS that the NBA outsources its training to college students who aren't getting paid.

- Do one or the other: either dispense with the notion that these athletes are students, and treat them like employees, or actually enforce the academics as roy suggested. But don't do this halfway-pretending that the academics are important and then doing nothing when schools like UNC are exposed.

I agree with essentially all of this. As for the endorsement question, I think it's more of an issue of some rich Kentucky fan promising that he'll pay $1 million per autograph. Or Adidas saying "we'll sponsor you with this giant contract, but you have to go to an Adidas school".

So maybe there should be a cap on that as well.

On the other hand, the number of athletes good enough to warrant these huge deals is such a small overall percentage of the total, that it becomes in practicality a nonissue.

[TheChosenOne]

37 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

so rather than be in the education business you want colleges and universities to go full boat into professional athletics and make it a priority (since their "employees will become probably amongst the highest paid employees at the company).   

Keep in mind the precedent this sets up for other benefits, and salary envy with other employees, etc.   i think you are opening a big can of worms beyond getting away from what the schools do best-educate.

I don't know the best way of making that happen, I just think if we are going to keep things primarily as is (i.e. no legit minor leagues for basketball or football for guys to truly pursue, so the true breeding ground for the pros is college), lets be honest with what is actually going on. I am saying why not just acknowledge what everyone already knows and just embrace it. Big time college basketball and football seemingly are professional athletics beyond paying the players, so the genie is already out of the bottle (schools have already embraced professional athletics in every sense beyond compensation). If my career choice is to be a professional basketball or football player, let me prepare and train to make that happen without any academic requirements and when I do decide to pursue academics let me find an institution that aligns with my ability as a student. We don't require accountants to run sprints and lift weights in their "free" time, so why require a future NBA player sit thru some African American studies course. I say formalize what is already going on and get rid of the facade. Now, if football and basketball do create actual minor leagues than I say enforce the heck out of academic requirements. Let's just get rid of the bs that we care about the student athlete and the academic integrity of these institutions when it comes to athletes, that ship has sailed. Too much $ is being made and spent to pretend otherwise (just not going to formally pay the players). I liked this article from back in 2011 in the Atlantic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/308643/

[billiken_roy]

since the blue bloods benefit most from these sham student athletes, your thoughts are likely to be the eventual reality instead of mine since the blues are the ones getting rich off the fake students now.  they arent about to let that go without a fight or at the very least something for them.   

imo, let the top 4 conferences create their own basketball league and association.   the rest of us can sleep at night knowing we are still institutions of learning.  

[cheeseman]

10 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

since the blue bloods benefit most from these sham student athletes, your thoughts are likely to be the eventual reality instead of mine since the blues are the ones getting rich off the fake students now.  they arent about to let that go without a fight or at the very least something for them.   

imo, let the top 4 conferences create their own basketball league and association.   the rest of us can sleep at night knowing we are still institutions of learning.  

That doesn't solve the problem.  I assume you are not counting the BE in the top 4 and as you can see Creighton is not above getting down in the mud.  As soon as this happens then it won't be long before the other non Top 4 will start cheating also if they think there is enough money in it for them.

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

That doesn't solve the problem.  I assume you are not counting the BE in the top 4 and as you can see Creighton is not above getting down in the mud.  As soon as this happens then it won't be long before the other non Top 4 will start cheating also if they think there is enough money in it for them.

if they all become the minor leagues for the nba, so be it.   i wont watch it.  i barely watch the nba as it is.   had the nba not changed their style of play somewhat, i still wouldnt be watching at all.   i'll watch the 1A league where the real colleges are playing.  the conferences where the name on the front of the jersey is more important than the name on the back. 

[cheeseman]

1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

if they all become the minor leagues for the nba, so be it.   i wont watch it.  i barely watch the nba as it is.   had the nba not changed their style of play somewhat, i still wouldnt be watching at all.   i'll watch the 1A league where the real colleges are playing.  the conferences where the name on the front of the jersey is more important than the name on the back. 

Cheaters always find a way to cheat.  Now that doesn't mean you don't try to stop them.

[HoosierPal]

Three headed to the Big House as a result of the first NCAA Corruption charge (agent and 2 Adidas reps).  Louisville and Kansas fingered as being involved with these three.  Two more trials are upcoming next year.  NCAA has been told by the Feds not to begin their investigation/punishment until all three trials are wrapped up.  

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-corruption-trial-aspiring-agent-2-former-adidas-representatives-found-guilty-of-defrauding-schools/