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Tommie Liddell


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39 minutes ago, ThomasCrone said:

thanks for sharing.   very roller coaster read.   happiness, sadness, anger, hope, dispair.   i need to take a break after reading.   great job.   

 

good luck tommie.   you can do it.  get the degree.  

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12 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

thanks for sharing.   very roller coaster read.   happiness, sadness, anger, hope, dispair.   i need to take a break after reading.   great job.   

 

good luck tommie.   you can do it.  get the degree.  

Indeed. Looking back, Tommie should have left after Soderberg was fired. 

Hope Tommie can become a guy that is around Chaifetz a lot more. 

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Tommie seems like a good man.  You could always tell how much he loved his family - I remember him wishing his dad a happy birthday in a post-game interview after he had a double-double against Duquesne as a freshman.

I don't think I realized how serious he was about his music.  I feel bad for dogging him about it. 

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This is one of the best SLU basketball articles I've ever read. Tommie is one of the more enigmatic, misunderstood players in SLU hoops history and he played in a particularly tumultuous period - a conference change, a coaching change, a venue change, high expectations that didn't come to fruition until a couple seasons after he and Lisch were gone, and a number of other factors swirling within and outside of the program.

The quotes from him, Lisch, Thorpe, Oberle, and Soderberg were all so refreshing. It's rare to get such self-awareness and candor about others, but I guess a decade of distance and perspective helps. He and Lisch really seem to get Majerus, too, and they paint him fairly as a complicated person who wasn't a natural fit for them. Oberle gets due credit as someone who really cares about the kids coming into SLU (she's the only one in the department still standing from my era). And it's interesting to see Soderberg understand one of his greatest shortcomings as a coach (and one of my primary criticisms of him), that he didn't relate to his players like he could or should have.

It helps that it begins and ends with a hopeful note, too.

This is A+ stuff, @ThomasCrone. The RFT has been doing excellent work lately. Thanks for this.

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Felt bad for both Tommy and Kevin they never got the NCAA. We knew when Rick came on the scene that Tommie wasn't a happy camper. I recall some posts either from his dad or uncle that really ran down Majerus and his handling of Tommie. Those two years of playing for Rick must have been hard for the L&L boys. Especially so, when they saw the success that followed after their departure.

Glad to see Tommie getting his degree and staying connected to SLU. One thing I remember about Tommie and Kevin was when SLU played UNC at the Dean Dome,  I was sitting next to a UNC fan and he said both those guys could have played for UNC. High praise indeed. That was their FR year but both played well in that game, and we were kind of hanging in there until UNC started benefitting from some suspect calls.

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Nice work, Thomas. Really well done. 

Tommie was never going to be an NBA player. It is a shame he couldn't put together a nice career overseas and make himself some good money. He could have transferred to another D1 program, but at that time in his life I doubt he would have stuck it. This was the same time frame as being late for practice to get his rows tightened up, or whatever ridiculous excuse it was. 

The Oberle "Tommie was relying on public transportation" thing was sad. The guy should have made hundreds of thousands playing in various leagues for several years. Instead hes living in his hometown and riding the bus. 

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42 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Indeed. Looking back, Tommie should have left after Soderberg was fired. 

Hope Tommie can become a guy that is around Chaifetz a lot more. 

i think both he and lisch should have left.    lisch could have likely upgraded himself greatly as a grad transfer (not sure if the rule had been set by then or not and too lazy to look it up) and might have actually upgraded his ability to go to the professional level instead of the long climb he has made in australia.  

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6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i think both he and lisch should have left.    lisch could have likely upgraded himself greatly as a grad transfer (not sure if the rule had been set by then or not and too lazy to look it up) and might have actually upgraded his ability to go to the professional level instead of the long climb he has made in australia.  

Soderberg was fired after Tommie and Kevin's sophomore years. Both would have had to sit out a year before playing. Additionally the grad transfer route was not available at that time.

Even then, I have a hard time believing Kevin would have been better off elsewhere. By all accounts he's led a pretty great life in Australia and I'm not sure that happens if he doesn't meet Majerus and some of his Aussie connections. I doubt he'd trade it in for a couple years at a power school and a tour through Europe instead. 

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13 minutes ago, kshoe said:

Soderberg was fired after Tommie and Kevin's sophomore years. Both would have had to sit out a year before playing. Additionally the grad transfer route was not available at that time.

Even then, I have a hard time believing Kevin would have been better off elsewhere. By all accounts he's led a pretty great life in Australia and I'm not sure that happens if he doesn't meet Majerus and some of his Aussie connections. I doubt he'd trade it in for a couple years at a power school and a tour through Europe instead. 

both were diverted from the focus they should have gotten when rickma arrived and their stats show they suffered accordingly.    there are far better foreign pro leagues kevin could have gotten to then australia.  yes he is now one of the highest regarded and paid australian pro players now.   i can assure you it didnt start out that way.    

both liddell and lisch were chased by big ten and big 12 schools out of high school.   after their sophomore years, they would have been courted even more so.   kudos for us they stuck around as we would have went through even tougher years growing into rickma's teams.   no doubt rickma was determined to get his program and style and players in place.   but there were collateral damage getting there and only because they were the best did kevin and tommie not get cut and even then the style and focus was changed such that they never regained the expectations they had after the sophomore seasons.   

 

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This is absolutely the best part of the story.  Get that degree young man!

But now he has a new goal: Twenty hours short of an undergraduate degree in criminal justice, more than a decade after he dropped out of college, Tommie Liddell III is a student again. Music now jockeys for time in his brain with English 325, which he's taking this spring at, yes, Saint Louis University.

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Great article.  In-depth, investigative reporting.  Seems to have too much kumbya going on in that no one is tossing mud at anyone but that's fine by me.  Love that "billikens.com" got mentioned.  Article makes understanding TLIII a little easier to do.  If I am the guilty party for bad music critiques, so be it.  I can only call them as I see 'em.  Not for me or my taste but TLIII seems to understand. 

Both he and Lisch had immense talent.  Both also seem to understand that neither was a Rick Majerus guy.  That there epitomizes my belief and push that if a coach leaves or gets fired or whatever for whatever reason, any kid recruited by that guy should have the one time and immediate option of transferring out as well.  No penalty to the school, none to the kid.  However, I can't see TLIII getting much in terms of draft love if he had gone pro after his sophomore year.  But that's just me.  I hope he's back to stay, gets his degree, entrenches himself in the Billiken cloth ala Bonner, Highmark, Claggs, Hughes, Joe Wiley and others that still hang on.  He's a Hall of Famer, holder of many spots in Billiken record books, and was always a nice kid when I spoke to him --- in Gola Mausoleum, in Atlantic City, in Cincy -- wherever I ran into him.  Always struck me as a shy kid ... as Oberle says quiet but not distant.  I can only imagine what it must be like for a projects kid from the ghetto running into an Anglo-White Saxon alum male like me and others.  Sounds like the team, as expressed by Lisch, was as surprised at Soderberg's firing as we all were. 

Lisch. Liddell and Vouyoukous were the same to me as Gray, Douglas and Bonner ---- none ever experienced the team highs we all enjoyed with Majerus at the helm.  Sometime I feel it is owed to them -- keep them close so they can ride into glory tangentially.

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Great article.

Some of the best, most detailed pieces on the Billikens have come via the RFT.

 

@ThomasCrone, if you are looking to do another piece on the Billikens, I have a topic that needs to be explored: Situation 2  Here are 7,000 background opinions on the topic if you'd like to get to work, but really you just need to call Chris Garner to get the real scoop. 

 

Edited by Quality Is Job 1
"Mention" poster.
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5 minutes ago, kshoe said:

mas, if you are looking to do another piece on the Billikens, I have a topic that needs to be explored: Situation 2  Here are 7,000 background opinions on the topic if you'd like to get to work, but really you just need to call Chris Garner to get the real scoop. 

This is really the kind of story that could be picked up and get some legs nationally.  

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8 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

This is really the kind of story that could be picked up and get some legs nationally.  

I'm a bit conflicted on this. I understand wanting to get to the bottom of things. And I understand the noble goal of trying to prevent future situations, but at this point, I think it would do more harm than good to the program. The punishment has already been handed out and damage has already been done with the departure of the players. The time to apply outside pressure would have been right after the incident. My concern is dredging it back up will just make things more difficult for Coach Ford. He's done a great job of keeping things together and moving forward under the circumstances and is looking ahead to better things next year.

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1 hour ago, ACE said:

I'm a bit conflicted on this. I understand wanting to get to the bottom of things. And I understand the noble goal of trying to prevent future situations, but at this point, I think it would do more harm than good to the program. The punishment has already been handed out and damage has already been done with the departure of the players. The time to apply outside pressure would have been right after the incident. My concern is dredging it back up will just make things more difficult for Coach Ford. He's done a great job of keeping things together and moving forward under the circumstances and is looking ahead to better things next year.

-I understand your point, if a national article is what it will take to make changes to the T9 Office, then I am for that

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1 hour ago, ACE said:

I'm a bit conflicted on this. I understand wanting to get to the bottom of things. And I understand the noble goal of trying to prevent future situations, but at this point, I think it would do more harm than good to the program. The punishment has already been handed out and damage has already been done with the departure of the players. The time to apply outside pressure would have been right after the incident. My concern is dredging it back up will just make things more difficult for Coach Ford. He's done a great job of keeping things together and moving forward under the circumstances and is looking ahead to better things next year.

i really dont care about getting to the bottom of anything at this point.   the season was already ruined and the ncaa isnt going to award do overs or reverse losses because of the prejudices or idiocy of pesty, krafty, the BOT or Stormy.    my hope of someone doing an article is to expose the aforementioned for their prejudices and idiocy and how they screwed over the Billikens and ruined four young men's lives.   

That said, Ace, you are probably correct that it would end up backfiring and mess things up even worse.   

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2 hours ago, ACE said:

I'm a bit conflicted on this. I understand wanting to get to the bottom of things. And I understand the noble goal of trying to prevent future situations, but at this point, I think it would do more harm than good to the program. The punishment has already been handed out and damage has already been done with the departure of the players. The time to apply outside pressure would have been right after the incident. My concern is dredging it back up will just make things more difficult for Coach Ford. He's done a great job of keeping things together and moving forward under the circumstances and is looking ahead to better things next year.

This has been my point along regarding even keeping that thread active unless new info is available.  This matter is not a SLU matter only - so focusing on us alone in a national article would only be counterproductive for the program.  Ford has already said that S2 did not have a significant impact on recruiting so best to just move on.  As Roy pointed out above no need to keep waving a red flag.  

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