Maybe one day we can get where Loyola has gotten

[RiseAndGrind]

15 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

OMG  that is unbelievable - thanks

Platt was the most useless of them  all. Driving Jayson Tatum around on campus in a golf cart with a dumb grin on his face. What Tatum must have been thinking. 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Platt was the most useless of them  all. Driving Jayson Tatum around on campus in a golf cart with a dumb grin on his face. What Tatum must have been thinking. 

Crews could not find time to do it for the #1 recruit in the country whose father went to SLU- what a mess.

[Bobby Metzinger]

11 hours ago, JeffinMH said:

So many Crews haters.  

Jim Crews accolades:

Awards
3× MCC Coach of the Year (1987, 1989, 1992) MVC Coach of the Year (1999) 2× Atlantic 10 Coach of the Year (2013, 2014) Sporting News National Coach of the Year (2013) NABC Coach of the Year (2013)   I guess nobody was too hard on him in 2013/2014! Funny how our memories work.

The Ty Willingham of college basketball. 

[almaman]

4 hours ago, slufan13 said:

Crews did a better job than I would have. Crews is an absolutely terrible coach. Both of those statements can be (and are) true. 

Don't sell yourself short.

[Duff Man]

2 hours ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

Here's a link to a post of mine from 2013 outlining my concerns re: Crews.

 

Thank you, and I take thetorch at his word.

My original question was not rhetorical...who could they have realistically hired instead of Crews in March/April 2013 and would there have been a backlash in the locker room?

I assumed that any change would have potentially allowed any of our guys to get poached on a grad transfer but if people more informed than I can definitely say (because they had conversations with the players themselves) they all would have come back even under a new regime, then I will stand down.

The Oregon game was decided by 3 pt shooting (Oregon was 8-11, SLU was 3-21) and the Bills were even worse (0-15) against Louisville...but they were 9-18 from 3 against NC State...which is one of the games in question.

The BS morning full practices leading into the NCAA games when players were hurt is not something I was aware of previously and would affect my assessment of Crews in 2013 and 2014. What games are we specifically talking about and what were the circumstances in each case? Is there a thread where this was discussed previously?

 

[cheeseman]

15 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Thank you, and I take thetorch at his word.

My original question was not rhetorical...who could they have realistically hired instead of Crews in March/April 2013 and would there have been a backlash in the locker room?

I assumed that any change would have potentially allowed any of our guys to get poached on a grad transfer but if people more informed than I can definitely say (because they had conversations with the players themselves) they all would have come back even under a new regime, then I will stand down.

The Oregon game was decided by 3 pt shooting (Oregon was 8-11, SLU was 3-21) and the Bills were even worse (0-15) against Louisville...but they were 9-18 from 3 against NC State...which is one of the games in question.

The BS morning full practices leading into the NCAA games when players were hurt is not something I was aware of previously and would affect my assessment of Crews in 2013 and 2014. What games are we specifically talking about and what were the circumstances in each case? Is there a thread where this was discussed previously?

 

As far as who else would they have hired as coach if not Crews - well that is what search firms are hired to do.  They have contacts who they can call to feel out who may or may not be interested in the job.  So throwing names out would be an exercise in futility given that we do not know who would have been available.  I am sure a qualified candidate other than Crews could have been found.  Now there would be no assurances that this person would have been successful.  I still think that Biondi was looking for somebody to pay less for than what RM was making and who would not make demands of him.  Crews was right under his nose and so he told May to get it done.  Anybody they would have talked to would have expected to get assurances that the school would be supportive of the program and Biondi had just gone through that with RM and did not want to have to relive it.

[Billiken Rich]

2 hours ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

The Ty Willingham of college basketball. 

 

What the hell does that even mean.........

[thetorch]

4 hours ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

Here's a link to a post of mine from 2013 outlining my concerns re: Crews.

 

Here is Roy pretty much summing up what most of us were thinking at the time.

Quote

Crews has done a very good job managing rickma's team. Other than the carter thing nothing has gone wrong. He has managed to cover the teams weaknesses and has won games i didnt give a chance in hell of winning. That said, unless a couple of recruiting stud assts are also announced at the same time a crews permanent head coaching job is announced, i am convinced he is the wrong guy.

For now bernie stay out of it and lets enjoy the rest of the season

 

11

 

[Taj79]

Many of us privately were concerned about the [dead] hire.  He never accomplished much at Evansville and was quietly run out of there.  Going to Army was not an upgrade, and then he got canned there for "abusing a cadet."  Warning, warning Wil Robinson.  But how do you NOT hire a NABC Coach of the Year?  Sure, it's real easy to say "Chris May should have had vision" but after saying that, that's all you got.  I don't think Porter Moser was then the answer and I don't think he'd be an answer now (and I mean anywhere not just SLU).  He needs to show me stuff for a year or two more but someone is liable to hire him after next weekend because it looks good to do.  Same with Ryan Odom.  I am always willing to give the new coach time to get his system in place and get his players in place before I judge.  He [dead] inherited his players and won with those players, crashing and burning badly with his own.  .  Ford had to survive a year of [dead] and then this would be his launch year with next year being the real payoff.  Situation 2.0 derailed this launch year and now we're hoping next year is the launch. 

I also agree with the rumors on the Biondi mindset.  But there's another "be careful what you wish for."  We all felt mostly that the exit of Biondi was a good thing for the program.  and now we have Feeble Freddie.    Every hire is the next greatest thing .. until they are not.  Sometime you have to live through the mistake [dead] to get to the other side.  This program has demonstrated no consistency over the years.  What is the constant then in all this?  Coaches come, coaches go.  Administrators come, administrators go.  With all that churn, what is the constant that keeps the status quo?  Is it the BOT?  Is it the prez?  Where is the mindset that needs changing?  To say I know would be a lie but there has to be something somewhere.  All of our success is seen in limited doses.  Unlike Butler or Xavier that has grown and remained good over time, we seem to have minor stretches in two years (Gray, Douglas, Bonner) to two years (Claggs, Hmark, Waldman) to one year (Hughes) to one year (Miracle) to two years (Majerus).  And that's over 40 or so years.  You can change all the Chris Mays you want.  Ditto the Travis Fords and Lisa Stones.  We've done that.  And here we are.  Where is the real issue?  Again, I don't know.

I am really hoping that the Ford hire is the hump hire and we can move onward and upward.  But I doubt it. 

[Duff Man]

Quote

Crews has done a very good job managing rickma's team. Other than the carter thing nothing has gone wrong. He has managed to cover the teams weaknesses and has won games i didnt give a chance in hell of winning. That said, unless a couple of recruiting stud assts are also announced at the same time a crews permanent head coaching job is announced, i am convinced he is the wrong guy. -BRoy

Well that's a far cry from the narrative that Rick's players could coach themselves and that anyone could have duplicated the success under Crews.

I get that Crews turned out to be terrible and many were concerned at the time, but they'd won 16 of 17 (the 1 loss being at Xavier in OT) heading into the Oregon game...when was May supposed to break the news to Crews that he was out after the year?

and why the need to rewrite history that Crews didn't do an exceptional job coaching Rick's players?

Also, does anyone have any more detail on the NCAA gameday regimen that may have contributed to the atrocious 3pt shooting that doomed their round of 32 performances in 2013 and 2014? That was a pretty big allegation that was thrown out there that multiple people seem hip to but no specifics...

[JMM28]

4 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Also, does anyone have any more detail on the NCAA gameday regimen that may have contributed to the atrocious 3pt shooting that doomed their round of 32 performances in 2013 and 2014? That was a pretty big allegation that was thrown out there that multiple people seem hip to but no specifics...

I thought that came from one of the players during an interview after the game, but I could be totally wrong on that. 

[cheeseman]

39 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Many of us privately were concerned about the [dead] hire.  He never accomplished much at Evansville and was quietly run out of there.  Going to Army was not an upgrade, and then he got canned there for "abusing a cadet."  Warning, warning Wil Robinson.  But how do you NOT hire a NABC Coach of the Year?  Sure, it's real easy to say "Chris May should have had vision" but after saying that, that's all you got.  I don't think Porter Moser was then the answer and I don't think he'd be an answer now (and I mean anywhere not just SLU).  He needs to show me stuff for a year or two more but someone is liable to hire him after next weekend because it looks good to do.  Same with Ryan Odom.  I am always willing to give the new coach time to get his system in place and get his players in place before I judge.  He [dead] inherited his players and won with those players, crashing and burning badly with his own.  .  Ford had to survive a year of [dead] and then this would be his launch year with next year being the real payoff.  Situation 2.0 derailed this launch year and now we're hoping next year is the launch. 

I also agree with the rumors on the Biondi mindset.  But there's another "be careful what you wish for."  We all felt mostly that the exit of Biondi was a good thing for the program.  and now we have Feeble Freddie.    Every hire is the next greatest thing .. until they are not.  Sometime you have to live through the mistake [dead] to get to the other side.  This program has demonstrated no consistency over the years.  What is the constant then in all this?  Coaches come, coaches go.  Administrators come, administrators go.  With all that churn, what is the constant that keeps the status quo?  Is it the BOT?  Is it the prez?  Where is the mindset that needs changing?  To say I know would be a lie but there has to be something somewhere.  All of our success is seen in limited doses.  Unlike Butler or Xavier that has grown and remained good over time, we seem to have minor stretches in two years (Gray, Douglas, Bonner) to two years (Claggs, Hmark, Waldman) to one year (Hughes) to one year (Miracle) to two years (Majerus).  And that's over 40 or so years.  You can change all the Chris Mays you want.  Ditto the Travis Fords and Lisa Stones.  We've done that.  And here we are.  Where is the real issue?  Again, I don't know.

I am really hoping that the Ford hire is the hump hire and we can move onward and upward.  But I doubt it. 

Your overall analysis is fair enough but there are a three  things that I would take a slightly different view,  First, I know it is popular to knock Dr. P over S2 but given how these Title IX things go his hands off approach was not necessarily wrong.  Could he have done a bit more massaging of the issue - perhaps but his approach did not cause a major problem.  The fact that JG was allowed to play most of the season and ultimately got a punishment that was not a total  disaster - yes I agree Dr. C may have helped in that matter and maybef there were lots of people working in the background to get this matter resolved as best as it could.  Given the initial report the results could have been a lot worse.  Whether the Title IX office needs restructuring is another issue.

Second, I believe given all the stuff last season I think Ford did a great job with the team.  They increased their win totals and had what many would say a decent season given the issues involved.  I know many thought that this team before S2 would be a winner of the A10 or if not very high and one going to Dance but I always was a bit more cautious.  I believed we could be competitive in the Conference whether it would have netted us a Dance invite was not a guarantee.

Third, I believe Dr. P will be a supporter of the program - does that mean he will do everything we MBM think he should - of course not.  Overall he has shown that he does support it - he attends games regularly, he supported the firing of Crews and the hiring of Ford, he allowed the AD to raise money for the locker room renovation.  I am willing to see how things go in the future.  Like I said, your review is fair.

[Tilkowsky]

13 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Crews could not find time to do it for the #1 recruit in the country whose father went to SLU- what a mess.

Tatum was NEVER going to SLU.

He was not going to pass up a chance to go to Duke for SLU.

 

[BillikenLaw]

On 3/25/2018 at 9:05 AM, JeffinMH said:

So many Crews haters.  

Jim Crews accolades:

Awards
3× MCC Coach of the Year (1987, 1989, 1992) MVC Coach of the Year (1999) 2× Atlantic 10 Coach of the Year (2013, 2014) Sporting News National Coach of the Year (2013) NABC Coach of the Year (2013)   I guess nobody was too hard on him in 2013/2014! Funny how our memories work.

No, a good number of knew he'd transform our program into a dumpster fire at the time:

On 4/12/2013 at 3:04 PM, BillikenLaw said:

I'm very excited to watch our team next year. I am extremely horrified of what kind of team we will likely have within 2-3 years, once RM's team graduates. Better enjoy it while we can!

From this thread:

 

The hiring of Jim Crews should probably go down as the the worst AD decision in my lifetime, and probably one of the worst in program history.

 

Man, all these years later and I still become livid when I think about it. The amount of raw passion, energy, enthusiasm, and buy-in from local fans that we had from 2011-2014.........

 

So pathetic. 

 

What could have been.

[cheeseman]

12 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

Tatum was NEVER going to SLU.

He was not going to pass up a chance to go to Duke for SLU.

 

So you believe that Crews knew this and just figured why waste my time.  Sorry, if that was true that is a terrible approach to recruiting.  I would be in SLU's advantage to even still be in the hunt in the public's mind.  

[billiken_roy]

8 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

So you believe that Crews knew this and just figured why waste my time.  Sorry, if that was true that is a terrible approach to recruiting.  I would be in SLU's advantage to even still be in the hunt in the public's mind.  

crews believed he was still in the hunt.   i remember watching the aau game on espn the day that tatum declared to duke and all the slu coaches were at that game.  if he believed he was out, surely they wouldnt have wasted recruiting days at that game.   

[Taj79]

cheese:  no offense to your take.  Appreciate the "fair" grade. My knock on Fred may be misplaced --- but I don't know whom to knock.  I think there should have been much more candor and 'face the nation' stuff from the SLU administration.  I pull out Fred cause the buck stops there.    I still have a festering issue in this same vein -- they still as a school have never come out and said a damn thing.  On Goodwin.  On Henriquez.  on Graves.  And especially on Bishop given that kid's total missing person disappearing act.  I've heard from Goodwin.  I heard from Graves.  Henriquez posted on line.  Bishop nothing.  But the school has said nothing official either.  I want them to stand up and say what happen -- understanding that privacy laws are what they are.  I would rather someone stood up and tried to explain within reason.  As it stand snow, KSDK could have a reporter and a camera man on  Grand in front of Dubourg and close with a camera shot "SLU ... says nothing."  Fair?  No but that's what you get when you take silence as your method of response.  The fervor over this has died down amazingly.  We haven't demanded a damn thing as a fan base and they are content to let that pass.  That contentedness .. or whatever it is ... is why we don't travel well, why there are empty seats at Chaifetz, why the students don't fill their section, and so on.  The collective "we" doesn't seem to care enough.

I was one of those who believed that, given the lack of talent I saw around the A10, this was a year where the talent Ford had assembled was enough to be very competitive in the league.  We were this close to fourth even up to the last day of the season,  Without the semblance of an offense outside ten feet.  What could have been had Henriquez, Graves and Bishop been there to add the wrinkle of arc-side jump shooters to our dynamic?  We give Providence a game, maybe, and certainly best Detroit and Central Michigan.  We likely beat Oregon State and with that change in OOC, we are now 20 1nd 13.  In conference, we might be bale to upend Davidson, maybe Mason, VCU, at Dayton, the Bonnies and at Duquesne.  Wow!, that is now a record of 25 and 8 and a likely 14 and 4 in conference.  I believe we were that close and what Ford did do with this team was indeed amazing.  The only seniors to go would have been th eliteral "[dead] weight."  Now add to that Gordon, Pearson and Thatch.  The dynsasty was simmering .... then came the ice cubes.  The best news is Travis is still here. And right now, so are Goodwin and Gordon.  Lie Bart Scott, ''can't wait."

Finally, Fred needs to show me more.  Right now, I see him as I did Biondi .. going to the big games in NYC and Washington.  He did go to Dayton but that doesn't count, he's from there or has history there.  Show me more.  I have yet to see anything over and above what Biondi contributed.  But he has time to improve, sure.  I always felt that Biondi ruled and crushed with an iron fist.  Fred just seems gumby-esque.  I guess I reall ydon't know who's running the school or where blame should fall.  I do know that I don't see it falling on Ford or even May for that matter.  And I'll close there.

[cheeseman]

25 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

cheese:  no offense to your take.  Appreciate the "fair" grade. My knock on Fred may be misplaced --- but I don't know whom to knock.  I think there should have been much more candor and 'face the nation' stuff from the SLU administration.  I pull out Fred cause the buck stops there.    I still have a festering issue in this same vein -- they still as a school have never come out and said a damn thing.  On Goodwin.  On Henriquez.  on Graves.  And especially on Bishop given that kid's total missing person disappearing act.  I've heard from Goodwin.  I heard from Graves.  Henriquez posted on line.  Bishop nothing.  But the school has said nothing official either.  I want them to stand up and say what happen -- understanding that privacy laws are what they are.  I would rather someone stood up and tried to explain within reason.  As it stand snow, KSDK could have a reporter and a camera man on  Grand in front of Dubourg and close with a camera shot "SLU ... says nothing."  Fair?  No but that's what you get when you take silence as your method of response.  The fervor over this has died down amazingly.  We haven't demanded a damn thing as a fan base and they are content to let that pass.  That contentedness .. or whatever it is ... is why we don't travel well, why there are empty seats at Chaifetz, why the students don't fill their section, and so on.  The collective "we" doesn't seem to care enough.

I was one of those who believed that, given the lack of talent I saw around the A10, this was a year where the talent Ford had assembled was enough to be very competitive in the league.  We were this close to fourth even up to the last day of the season,  Without the semblance of an offense outside ten feet.  What could have been had Henriquez, Graves and Bishop been there to add the wrinkle of arc-side jump shooters to our dynamic?  We give Providence a game, maybe, and certainly best Detroit and Central Michigan.  We likely beat Oregon State and with that change in OOC, we are now 20 1nd 13.  In conference, we might be bale to upend Davidson, maybe Mason, VCU, at Dayton, the Bonnies and at Duquesne.  Wow!, that is now a record of 25 and 8 and a likely 14 and 4 in conference.  I believe we were that close and what Ford did do with this team was indeed amazing.  The only seniors to go would have been th eliteral "[dead] weight."  Now add to that Gordon, Pearson and Thatch.  The dynsasty was simmering .... then came the ice cubes.  The best news is Travis is still here. And right now, so are Goodwin and Gordon.  Lie Bart Scott, ''can't wait."

Finally, Fred needs to show me more.  Right now, I see him as I did Biondi .. going to the big games in NYC and Washington.  He did go to Dayton but that doesn't count, he's from there or has history there.  Show me more.  I have yet to see anything over and above what Biondi contributed.  But he has time to improve, sure.  I always felt that Biondi ruled and crushed with an iron fist.  Fred just seems gumby-esque.  I guess I reall ydon't know who's running the school or where blame should fall.  I do know that I don't see it falling on Ford or even May for that matter.  And I'll close there.

He sits on the floor close to my area and he has been to most games.  He kind of stopped sitting on the floor during S2 because he was getting heckled.  Biondi hardly ever came to a game.  I would see him maybe once a year sitting on the floor.  So, I would say he has done more than Biondi but that was a low bar so easy to surpass. By the way I did not give your post a fair grade what I said was that your post Fair enough.

[RiseAndGrind]

26 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

He sits on the floor close to my area and he has been to most games.  He kind of stopped sitting on the floor during S2 because he was getting heckled.  Biondi hardly ever came to a game.  I would see him maybe once a year sitting on the floor.  So, I would say he has done more than Biondi but that was a low bar so easy to surpass. By the way I did not give your post a fair grade what I said was that your post Fair enough.

Biondi sat center court up a couple rows.

[billiken_roy]

31 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

He sits on the floor close to my area and he has been to most games.  He kind of stopped sitting on the floor during S2 because he was getting heckled.  Biondi hardly ever came to a game.  I would see him maybe once a year sitting on the floor.  So, I would say he has done more than Biondi but that was a low bar so easy to surpass. By the way I did not give your post a fair grade what I said was that your post Fair enough.

this is wrong.  biondi was at more games than not.   center court on the aisle about the 7th row up.  

[ACE]

In the P-D column today about Moser they mentioned that Christian Thomas from Clayton HS was going to walk-on at SLU because Moser was recruiting him. When Moser got the Loyola job he offered the kid a scholarship. He went on to have a nice career at Loyola. Could've developed into a nice role player here.

[Duff Man]

5 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

crews believed he was still in the hunt.   i remember watching the aau game on espn the day that tatum declared to duke and all the slu coaches were at that game.  if he believed he was out, surely they wouldnt have wasted recruiting days at that game.   

People in the know (Drew Hanlen?) were indicating SLU had a very real shot. 

Remember in February 2013-14 (Tatum's soph year) SLU was ranked in the top 10 in the country and in March 2014 Duke got bounced from the NCAA first round for the 2nd time in 3 years.

But then SLU finished 14 out of 14 in the A10 in 2014-15 while Duke won the NCAA tournament...and that was that

[White Pelican]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

this is wrong.  biondi was at more games than not.   center court on the aisle about the 7th row up.  

Agreed. And rarely missed a game at Scottrade either. Had an aisle seat eight rows up center court on the scoring table side.

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

this is wrong.  biondi was at more games than not.   center court on the aisle about the 7th row up.  

Well once in awhile I saw him sit on the floor - I guess I just assumed that was his area but apparently I was wrong.

[billiken_roy]

9 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Well once in awhile I saw him sit on the floor - I guess I just assumed that was his area but apparently I was wrong.

now that you mention it, while all the other slu staff sit in the stands usually at least 8 rows or more back, and biondi did as well, but pesty thinks he deserves floor seats?   i hope he is personally writing a check for that location.