Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[BillsBeliever!!!]

300

[STL Hoops Insider]

44 minutes ago, Billy Ken said:

If Goodwin leaves, assume Gordon is out too...does Coach Ford stay?

Gordon can’t leave if Ford stays.

[billslasttermdropout]

1 hour ago, Bizziken said:

I tend to agree with you, but maybe an AAC school takes a chance on him. Dunphy at Temple is like 100 years old. Hell, East Carolina needs a coach after Lebo quit.  

Hey if you don't want your free Zimas ....

[Basketbill]

Per Stu's article it appears Bishop traveled with the team.

 

[Taj79]

Gordon can go any time he wants.  All that matters is the school releases him from his signed letter of intent.  He can decommit any time he wants.  The firing of a coach or the voluntary departure of that coach has nothing to do (at this point) with LOI commitments to schools.  The LOI commits you to that school regardless of the coach.  Now, as we all might agree, kids mostly sign with coaches so when they go, so goes the recruit, more times than not.  A school can decline to release the kid but why would you do that?  If the kid wants elsewhere, why keep him?  Jeremiah Tilmon could be a prime example of this.  Mike Smith could change his mind and decommit from a Mizzou baseball scholarship to an Iliini basketball scholarship.  Don't recall if that was the case.  Guys left Ohio State and VCU, for examples, when Matta got fired and/or Wade took the LSU job.  There is a kid from Rice sitting out this year because he followed Rhoades from Rice to VCU.  Happens all the time.  Don't think for a moment that there aren't folks whispering in any recruits ear at any time .... now they have the additional fodder of SLU inflicting pain on itself up and down the board. 

The only "lock" you have on any kid is when they actually enroll in classes at yoru school.  Of course, that too can change --- just look at the Robinson kid at Western Kentucky this year.  There are no real chickens to count until school in August (or June if the kid come sin early).

[SLU_Lax]

Fred looks pretty safe give these fund raising numbers. 

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-blows-past-previous-fundraising-goals-raising-million-in-six/article_efb50f0e-84e2-52af-be23-792c485617eb.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest

[RiseAndGrind]

14 minutes ago, SLU_Lax said:

Fred looks pretty safe give these fund raising numbers. 

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-blows-past-previous-fundraising-goals-raising-million-in-six/article_efb50f0e-84e2-52af-be23-792c485617eb.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest

Biondi came back in March of 17 to fundraise. Funny it didn’t make it into the article. 

[slufan13]

Convenient article. Jost is Pestello's puppet 

[billikenfan05]

12 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Convenient article. Jost is Pestello's puppet 

100%

[Bobby Metzinger]

8 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Convenient article. Jost is Pestello's puppet 

Could almost be the other way around, too. Pestello knows when his supporters Tilk is are online.

Love how Freddy Ballgame paraphrases the late great pie lady Sara Lee with this gem: “There’s no way we’re not going to have our best year ever.."

Baseball, apple pie, Chevrolet, Fred Pestello. Beacons of the shining city on the hill. 

 

 

[cheeseman]

54 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Gordon can go any time he wants.  All that matters is the school releases him from his signed letter of intent.  He can decommit any time he wants.  The firing of a coach or the voluntary departure of that coach has nothing to do (at this point) with LOI commitments to schools.  The LOI commits you to that school regardless of the coach.  Now, as we all might agree, kids mostly sign with coaches so when they go, so goes the recruit, more times than not.  A school can decline to release the kid but why would you do that?  If the kid wants elsewhere, why keep him?  Jeremiah Tilmon could be a prime example of this.  Mike Smith could change his mind and decommit from a Mizzou baseball scholarship to an Iliini basketball scholarship.  Don't recall if that was the case.  Guys left Ohio State and VCU, for examples, when Matta got fired and/or Wade took the LSU job.  There is a kid from Rice sitting out this year because he followed Rhoades from Rice to VCU.  Happens all the time.  Don't think for a moment that there aren't folks whispering in any recruits ear at any time .... now they have the additional fodder of SLU inflicting pain on itself up and down the board. 

The only "lock" you have on any kid is when they actually enroll in classes at yoru school.  Of course, that too can change --- just look at the Robinson kid at Western Kentucky this year.  There are no real chickens to count until school in August (or June if the kid come sin early).

I believe if you sign a letter of intent to play a sport like baseball with one school but then decide to go somewhere else and play another sport like basketball then you can do whatever you want without any release given that you are not playing the sport you signed for - thought I read that somewhere.  Gordon can go anytime he wants but not to play basketball anywhere else without SLU releasing him.  I think he can go Jucco though.  I agree that a school looks pretty silly not releasing the kid if changes his mind.

[Bills_06]

43 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Convenient article. Jost is Pestello's puppet 

No kidding.  Almost makes you feel bad for Nixon.  Imagine if Woodward and Bernstein asked for information, got an official blanket statement and then saw Nixon tweet about Christmas cookies and get distracted and start tweeting with him about how funny the name "Cookies R Us" is.  Hard scrabble journalism there.  

[billiken_roy]

14 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I believe if you sign a letter of intent to play a sport like baseball with one school but then decide to go somewhere else and play another sport like basketball then you can do whatever you want without any release given that you are not playing the sport you signed for - thought I read that somewhere.  Gordon can go anytime he wants but not to play basketball anywhere else without SLU releasing him.  I think he can go Jucco though.  I agree that a school looks pretty silly not releasing the kid if changes his mind.

a player can go juco and play immediately if not released by the first school.   otherwise the player is not released, he can go but sits a year and loses a year of eligibilty.   pretty sure that is the way it goes.   as stated above, a school really would look bad if they did not release.    i think the releasing school can make the release conditional, i.e. for example, xyz is released from his loi, but cannot follow coach abc to star wars university.   

[TGSLU]

As to Ford I'm not sure why he would necessarily leave SLU.  Title IX abuses appear to be known and the misuse of this provision is gaining more and more notoriety.  Ford could leave one mess just to find himself in another.  The facts of this case (if true as relayed on this board and gleaned from the accuser's PD statement) really shows the misapplication of Title IX.  I would think this is the type of case (and set of facts) that could really set a challenge to Title IX and the processes used by schools.  So many issues here at odds with basic rights-- equal protection, sexual and racial discrimination, due process, etc.  There also has to be some disciplinary action for hearing officers that run amok.  This case may not cost the players out of pocket-- attorneys could well take this pro bono if not on some contingency.  SLU can argue it followed a process all it wants, but when the process is inherently flawed this argument should wilt.  This will be interesting to watch and it could have some far reaching impact (not just to SLU's coffers but to the application of Title IX on a broader basis).  Good thing SLU set a record raising funds-- it will need to the money to settle or pay judgements. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

29 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

a player can go juco and play immediately if not released by the first school.   otherwise the player is not released, he can go but sits a year and loses a year of eligibilty.   pretty sure that is the way it goes.   as stated above, a school really would look bad if they did not release.    i think the releasing school can make the release conditional, i.e. for example, xyz is released from his loi, but cannot follow coach abc to star wars university.   

I'm pretty sure releases from LOIs must be unconditional.  It's transfers that can have stipulations.

[Spoon-Balls]

10 minutes ago, TGSLU said:

As to Ford I'm not sure why he would necessarily leave SLU.  Title IX abuses appear to be known and the misuse of this provision is gaining more and more notoriety.  Ford could leave one mess just to find himself in another.  The facts of this case (if true as relayed on this board and gleaned from the accuser's PD statement) really shows the misapplication of Title IX.  I would think this is the type of case (and set of facts) that could really set a challenge to Title IX and the processes used by schools.  So many issues here at odds with basic rights-- equal protection, sexual and racial discrimination, due process, etc.  There also has to be some disciplinary action for hearing officers that run amok.  This case may not cost the players out of pocket-- attorneys could well take this pro bono if not on some contingency.  SLU can argue it followed a process all it wants, but when the process is inherently flawed this argument should wilt.  This will be interesting to watch and it could have some far reaching impact (not just to SLU's coffers but to the application of Title IX on a broader basis).  Good thing SLU set a record raising funds-- it will need to the money to settle or pay judgements. 

 

This. Plus, it might be the case that he's gotten a lot of support from the rest of the University and boosters/alumni (everyone except Pestello and the Title IX office). He might genuinely enjoy being here, but it's terribly unfortunate what has transpired this season....

[brianstl]

14 minutes ago, TGSLU said:

As to Ford I'm not sure why he would necessarily leave SLU.  Title IX abuses appear to be known and the misuse of this provision is gaining more and more notoriety.  Ford could leave one mess just to find himself in another.  The facts of this case (if true as relayed on this board and gleaned from the accuser's PD statement) really shows the misapplication of Title IX.  I would think this is the type of case (and set of facts) that could really set a challenge to Title IX and the processes used by schools.  So many issues here at odds with basic rights-- equal protection, sexual and racial discrimination, due process, etc.  There also has to be some disciplinary action for hearing officers that run amok.  This case may not cost the players out of pocket-- attorneys could well take this pro bono if not on some contingency.  SLU can argue it followed a process all it wants, but when the process is inherently flawed this argument should wilt.  This will be interesting to watch and it could have some far reaching impact (not just to SLU's coffers but to the application of Title IX on a broader basis).  Good thing SLU set a record raising funds-- it will need to the money to settle or pay judgements. 

I think Ford staying or going comes down to if he feels he was lied to or not about what was going to happen.  I think from different statements that have been relayed on and off this board (plus some actions) that the athletic department felt confidently this was going to end differently.  If that was because of stuff they were told by people in power at SLU then Ford could feel he was intentionally mislead and sabotaged.  If that happened, I could see him walking away for an assistant coaching job in the NBA or at a top college program.  He still has his buyout money from OSU to soften the financial hit.   He could rebuild his reputation there instead of suffering through the sh!t show this program will be for the foreseeable future. 

[brianstl]

2 hours ago, SLU_Lax said:

Fred looks pretty safe give these fund raising numbers. 

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-blows-past-previous-fundraising-goals-raising-million-in-six/article_efb50f0e-84e2-52af-be23-792c485617eb.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest

That might be enough to cover the lawsuits.

[ACE]

27 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think Ford staying or going comes down to if he feels he was lied to or not about what was going to happen.  I think from different statements that have been relayed on and off this board (plus some actions) that the athletic department felt confidently this was going to end differently.  If that was because of stuff they were told by people in power at SLU then Ford could feel he was intentionally mislead and sabotaged.  If that happened, I could see him walking away for an assistant coaching job in the NBA or at a top college program.  He still has his buyout money from OSU to soften the financial hit.   He could rebuild his reputation there instead of suffering through the sh!t show this program will be for the foreseeable future. 

I don't see that happening. Doubtful he's gonna find a better job to build his reputation than this one, no matter how pissed he may be about how this situation has gone down. Taking an assistant's job is risky. Better opportunity to show his leadership by battling through some adversity here. That would make him very marketable for his next job. And one thing Ford has demonstrated during his brief time here is that he can quickly rebuild a roster. His best course of action is to work on keeping who is currently here and then add to it. It doesn't have to be a " show" for the foreseeable future if Ford does a good job.

[brianstl]

15 minutes ago, ACE said:

I don't see that happening. Doubtful he's gonna find a better job to build his reputation than this one, no matter how pissed he may be about how this situation has gone down. Taking an assistant's job is risky. Better opportunity to show his leadership by battling through some adversity here. That would make him very marketable for his next job. And one thing Ford has demonstrated during his brief time here is that he can quickly rebuild a roster. His best course of action is to work on keeping who is currently here and then add to it. It doesn't have to be a " show" for the foreseeable future if Ford does a good job.

I think you are really underestimating how badly this is hurting recruiting.  I hope you are right and I am wrong, but I think it has already cost us Pinson and it is only going to grow.  At this time last year we already had Gordon's and Thatch's verbal commitments in our pocket for the 2018 class.  We have exactly zero for the 2019 class right now and are scrambling to add to the 2018 class.

[Billiken Rich]

3 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think you are really underestimating how badly this is hurting recruiting.  I hope you are right and I am wrong, but I think it has already cost us Pinson and it is only going to grow.  At this time last year we already had Gordon's and Thatch's verbal commitments in our pocket for the 2018 class.  We have exactly zero for the 2019 class right now and are scrambling to add to the 2018 class.

There's no way to know if this is true.  Did Pinson say anything on the subject?  Obviously it did set us back though.  Ford is a great recruiter but you do need to know how many kids you need.........

[RiseAndGrind]

6 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think you are really underestimating how badly this is hurting recruiting.  I hope you are right and I am wrong, but I think it has already cost us Pinson and it is only going to grow.  At this time last year we already had Gordon's and Thatch's verbal commitments in our pocket for the 2018 class.  We have exactly zero for the 2019 class right now and are scrambling to add to the 2018 class.

Yep. Recruiting is going to be a huge challenge. 

[ACE]

8 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think you are really underestimating how badly this is hurting recruiting.  I hope you are right and I am wrong, but I think it has already cost us Pinson and it is only going to grow.  At this time last year we already had Gordon's and Thatch's verbal commitments in our pocket for the 2018 class.  We have exactly zero for the 2019 class right now and are scrambling to add to the 2018 class.

It's way too early to say what kind of impact this has had on recruiting. Graves and Henriquez only recently officially left. A lot of schools were offering Pinson. Where did you ever see that we were in the lead? It seems like we were late to get involved. 

[JMM28]

1 minute ago, ACE said:

It's way too early to say what kind of impact this has had on recruiting. Graves and Henriquez only recently officially left. A lot of schools were offering Pinson. Where did you ever see that we were in the lead? It seems like we were late to get involved. 

It seemed like there was some connection between him changing his announcement of his final 4 to the timing of Rosenblum's press conference. In hindsight I think he changed dates a bunch of times on a bunch of different announcements. 

[kappy96]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

I think Ford staying or going comes down to if he feels he was lied to or not about what was going to happen.  I think from different statements that have been relayed on and off this board (plus some actions) that the athletic department felt confidently this was going to end differently.  If that was because of stuff they were told by people in power at SLU then Ford could feel he was intentionally mislead and sabotaged.  If that happened, I could see him walking away for an assistant coaching job in the NBA or at a top college program.  He still has his buyout money from OSU to soften the financial hit.   He could rebuild his reputation there instead of suffering through the sh!t show this program will be for the foreseeable future. 

Has anyone heard rumblings that there is interest in Ford from some Louisville boosters to bring him in if that job were to open up?  I wouldn't categorize what I heard as concrete but I have heard it from multiple "sources".  Obviously would be a big jump in class but he does have ties in KY.