SLU_Lax Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 So it does seem very possible that one major mistake the University made was bringing in this outside firm to investigate. I am assuming it was their investigation that clearly established this was a consensual activity and I am assuming it was their investigation that uncovered that the women were preplanning the group sex. If this outside group was not contracted, I would assume Kratky and company would have used the Gold Standard Process to take the women completely at their word and shove the men out. So while they did get to shove the men out anyway, they are going to get hammered in civil court (in large part because of the outside investigation). I am sure they will update the Gold Standard process after this to ensure everything is kept in house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 we'll just binge on Netflix or do some volunteer work till the big dance. I and at least one player will be enjoying a season destined for the record books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOne Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, kshoe said: Who gives a flying F about the rest of this season? This season is toast. I just care about next year and making sure that player number 4 is back on the team in the future. Frankly I disagree. I feel that this team is starting to gel - if we can keep the gang together and somehow maneuver our way into the #4 slot heading into the A10 tourney and earn a couple of bye’s, I could see this team being decently dangerous in the A10. We were leading against (and should have beaten) each team that currently sits in the top 4 conference rankings. rgbilliken, NashvilleBilliken, Gremio14 and 2 others like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Foreman has been rolling. JohnnyJumpUp likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheOne said: Frankly I disagree. I feel that this team is starting to gel - if we can keep the gang together and somehow maneuver our way into the #4 slot heading into the A10 tourney and earn a couple of bye’s, I could see this team being decently dangerous in the A10. We were leading against (and should have beaten) each team that currently sits in the top 4 conference rankings. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, TheOne said: Frankly I disagree. I feel that this team is starting to gel - if we can keep the gang together and somehow maneuver our way into the #4 slot heading into the A10 tourney and earn a couple of bye’s, I could see this team being decently dangerous in the A10. We were leading against (and should have beaten) each team that currently sits in the top 4 conference rankings. I agree they are playing better but 6 regular players aren't realistically going to win the tourney with 3 or 4 back-to-back games. Obviously, choice number one is nobody on the existing team gets suspended, but if there is a version of the future where a players gets suspended for the rest of this season but the punishment isn't so draconian that he decides to come back next season, that is far preferable than a solution where he plays out the rest of this year and gets a punishment that costs him the entirety of next year. I'll take the pain now and reload for next year with the same 6 (minus Roby) plus the new recruits and maybe Whelmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 19 minutes ago, kshoe said: Who gives a flying F about the rest of this season? This season is toast. I just care about next year and making sure that player number 4 is back on the team in the future. Agree with you. If it made the powers happy, I would suspend player #4 for the rest of the season if it meant he can play all of next season. This team does look better lately but a team that goes 6 deep (8 if you count Anthony and Hines) isn't going to win 3 games in 3 days (or more likely 4 games in 4 days). We already saw how 2 games in 2 days went against Providence. Edit we basically just said the exact same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 41 minutes ago, William Iken said: You're not the life of a party, are you mate. Why aren't the three other men also victims here - if only one filmed, all the others are in the same boat as the ladies. All willingly participated in an orgy. All were filmed. And I highly doubt the three men gave verbal consent. So why are they suspended and the women vistims? I don't get it. Is it because they are men? Black? Athletes? All of the above? Please stop replying to this . (Edit: Apparently the word for fake rubber pen-is is not allowed here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGSLU Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Whether the male participants here are basketball players or not, SLU's process and the precedent it sets is what concerns me. This has all of the earmarks of a "kangaroo court." The school's "higher purpose greater good" mantra is apparently a complete farse. SLU's handling of this situation has tarnished its brand overall as an institution of higher education. The tenets of justice are thrown out the window and for what purpose-- is it because a sexually promiscuous girl has a big donor father? Again- this is setting an extremely dangerous precedent and tarnishing the reputations and future endeavors of young men involved. Should these guys have known better than to get involved in this type of thing-- sure-- but bad judgement in a consensual relationship should not lead to such severe ramifications. GoBills73 likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, TGSLU said: Whether the male participants here are basketball players or not, SLU's process and the precedent it sets is what concerns me. This has all of the earmarks of a "kangaroo court." The school's "higher purpose greater good" mantra is apparently a complete farse. SLU's handling of this situation has tarnished its brand overall as an institution of higher education. The tenets of justice are thrown out the window and for what purpose-- is it because a sexually promiscuous girl has a big donor father? Again- this is setting an extremely dangerous precedent and tarnishing the reputations and future endeavors of young men involved. Should these guys have known better than to get involved in this type of thing-- sure-- but bad judgement in a consensual relationship should not lead to such severe ramifications. This has already been debunked, and yet I'm seeing people post it everyday in here. Also, she's being represented by "Attorney Katherine Wessling of the Crime Victim Advocacy Center" - not exactly a sign of power or deep pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 The cheerleaders have the same public profile the b-ball players have. If you hang the guys on sexual misconduct, the same rope should fit all involved parties. However, the one cheer/dance lady has owned what happened. Whichever way the punishment breaks, it should be equal, except possibly for the one who released the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGSLU Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Pistol said: This has already been debunked, and yet I'm seeing people post it everyday in here. Also, she's being represented by "Attorney Katherine Wessling of the Crime Victim Advocacy Center" - not exactly a sign of power or deep pockets. So the only rationale I can see on the side of the school for perpetuating this mess has been debunked? I'm at a loss then for any rationale on the school's behalf to enforce the severe penalties rendered against the men involved and complete lack of any action against the women for their similar conduct. willie likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Lax Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, TGSLU said: So the only rationale I can see on the side of the school for perpetuating this mess has been debunked? I'm at a loss then for any rationale on the school's behalf to enforce the severe penalties rendered against the men involved and complete lack of any action against the women for their similar conduct. It is poor leadership by Pestello and the Board that allowed Kratky to build her Gold Standard Process. There were warning signs before that the office was out of control. Kratky punished the men because they were men. She does not need a reason because that is just what she does. It is like asking why a fish swims or a bird flies. Kratky is gonna Kratky. Weathers is gonna Weathers. The vacuum of leadership at the University allowed them unrestricted ability to operate unfettered. This is not about some deep, dark plan from the administration. That would require some semblance of leadership. It is about individuals run amok and being allowed to do whatever they felt like. Bobby Metzinger and kshoe like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 The players lost this case as soon as it was reported as sexual assault. I truly believe the punishment would be less if the initial allegations were taking pictures/video of the sexual encounter (instead of sexual assault) even though the actual findings of the investigation would have been the exact same. I could see the person who shared it on social media getting the same punishment either way I guess. The players are getting punished for the allegations. Not for what actually happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, TGSLU said: So the only rationale I can see on the side of the school for perpetuating this mess has been debunked? I'm at a loss then for any rationale on the school's behalf to enforce the severe penalties rendered against the men involved and complete lack of any action against the women for their similar conduct. I'm in your camp. Unless there are things we don't know this whole thing makes no sense. It's like getting 30 years in prison for shop lifting a pack of gum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I'm still angry at the original tweet alleging a "rape" was being covered up.\ Edit: I'm sorry, gang rape was the term used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, SLU_Lax said: It is poor leadership by Pestello and the Board that allowed Kratky to build her Gold Standard Process. There were warning signs before that the office was out of control. Kratky punished the men because they were men. She does not need a reason because that is just what she does. It is like asking why a fish swims or a bird flies. Kratky is gonna Kratky. Weathers is gonna Weathers. The vacuum of leadership at the University allowed them unrestricted ability to operate unfettered. I'm with you on this. This whole thing is an attack on men and while I'm extra mad that it's happening to our basketball team the policies that have been written by the SLU Title IX department are so one sided and unfair to college age men (kicked out of school for consensual sex with drunk girls) that I have to blame school leadership (i.e. Pestello) for allowing this group to become so powerful under his watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGSLU Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, willie said: I'm in your camp. Unless there are things we don't know this whole thing makes no sense. It's like getting 30 years in prison for shop lifting a pack of gum. In this case a pack of gum that wanted to be shoplifted but after the fact the pack of gum revoked its consent to be videotaped by the surveillance camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 19 minutes ago, Pistol said: This has already been debunked, and yet I'm seeing people post it everyday in here. Also, she's being represented by "Attorney Katherine Wessling of the Crime Victim Advocacy Center" - not exactly a sign of power or deep pockets. Her dad isn't a big donor, but her family is not poor by any means. I would be surprised if Wessling was calling the shots on the girl's legal strategy. Wessling does work through SLU. Having Wessling put out the statement was a smart move to try to garner sympathy for the girl. Without saying a word about the girl, Wessling gives the impression that the girl is like the people who have no choice but to use the Crime Victim Advocacy Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, brianstl said: Her dad isn't a big donor, but her family is not poor by any means. I would be surprised if Wessling was calling the shots on the girl's legal strategy. Wessling does work through SLU. Having Wessling put out the statement was a smart move to try to garner sympathy for the girl. Without saying a word about the girl, Wessling gives the impression that the girl is like the people who have no choice but to use the Crime Victim Advocacy Center. My only point was that the rumor that her dad is some big-time lawyer is not true. If people on this board are going to try to argue their case outside of this board, it's important to have facts correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I would be thrilled if Rosenblum would release/leak a redacted version of the Title IX report. Pistol likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Pistol said: My only point was that the rumor that her dad is some big-time lawyer is not true. If people on this board are going to try to argue their case outside of this board, it's important to have facts correct. You mean we don't need facts on this board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills_06 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 The two biggest things I want to know is why is the police report still open and what was the recommended punishment from the external investigation that was in the report. I didn't have much faith in the Title IX after reading the 2015 article in stltoday but the past couples weeks dropped that to zero chance I think they will be fair in the process and handle it correctly. Why somebody at the Post can't get an answer on why the police haven't closed the investigation is also confusing. There has to be somebody there that knows why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, slufan13 said: I would be thrilled if Rosenblum would release/leak a redacted version of the Title IX report. No chance that happens until the appeals process is over. The main part of the report I want to see is the investigators report to SLU. I would, also, be interested to see if there were major differences between the investigator's report Maureen Holland delivered in early December and the final investigator's report SLU delivered to Rosenblum after Christmas. I don't know how involved Holland would have been in any changes between the two because she had started serving as interim Title IX coordinator at Baylor right after she finished up her report in early December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills73 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Tony continues. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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