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Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)


DoctorB

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5 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

You want SLU to be FloridaState? Just because FloridaState has no ethics is that what you want for SLU?

SLU is a Catholic University and should be better than the Florida State's of the world.

SLU isn't winning the NCAA's anyway. So no problem, right?

Yeah, thank goodness we are there to fall on our sword for the sake of propriety, SLU is making a major difference for sports world wide!  And I say, so what if SLU defaults on the stadium bonds.  I am sure the banks will just forgive the loans, we are a Catholic University after all.

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Now guys do not set your hearts upon the idea that they will be suspended for 1 session as a result of the title IX, any number of different outcomes can come out of this. Believing that they will be suspended 1 session, the current session, just sets you down for another emotional let down. We need to wait and see what the outcome is, keeping in mind that there may be sanctions, or restrictions, or probation that will not be made public.

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30 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Now guys do not set your hearts upon the idea that they will be suspended for 1 session as a result of the title IX, any number of different outcomes can come out of this. Believing that they will be suspended 1 session, the current session, just sets you down for another emotional let down. We need to wait and see what the outcome is, keeping in mind that there may be sanctions, or restrictions, or probation that will not be made public.

So you're saying we don't know what's going to happen?

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33 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Now guys do not set your hearts upon the idea that they will be suspended for 1 session as a result of the title IX, any number of different outcomes can come out of this. Believing that they will be suspended 1 session, the current session, just sets you down for another emotional let down. We need to wait and see what the outcome is, keeping in mind that there may be sanctions, or restrictions, or probation that will not be made public.

Stop it! Just stop it!

People on this board fully understand that when they say "I think this may happen" what they are really saying is they are taking a guess at what may happen. Nobody freaking knows what will happen and they don't need you telling them that they may be wrong.

Take your own advice and don't post on this thread anymore until we "know what the outcome is."

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14 minutes ago, kshoe said:

Stop it! Just stop it!

People on this board fully understand that when they say "I think this may happen" what they are really saying is they are taking a guess at what may happen. Nobody freaking knows what will happen and they don't need you telling them that they may be wrong.

Take your own advice and don't post on this thread anymore until we "know what the outcome is."

I heard the suspension gets lifted when this thread reaches 100 pages....

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Kshoe if the people in this thread could take a guess as a guess and not believe it, there would be no need to post this stuff anymore. However that is not the case, many people post crazy stuff after every lousy disappointment like the #fire pestello crap. As long as we have people like these posting their stuff I will continue doing so. 

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-Abomb's post is right on the money, well said

-I am now guessing that we will not see those players in our uniform and the consequences of this will be severe, I hope I am wrong and very pleasantly surprised, come on U, give us a St Nicholas Day present (I won't mention stockings)

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28 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Kshoe if the people in this thread could take a guess as a guess and not believe it, there would be no need to post this stuff anymore. However that is not the case, many people post crazy stuff after every lousy disappointment like the #fire pestello crap. As long as we have people like these posting their stuff I will continue doing so. 

Truly exhausting

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9 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

Truly exhausting

I just had a picture in my mind of six "old guys" on a committee discussing the sexual mores of today's youth and trying to come up with a fair punishment.  That would be exhausting, have a transcript longer than War and Peace, and probably be completed in time for the players to graduate.....  

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13 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Do you think Winston brought in more revenue than he cost them?  He won the Heisman, and National Championship, none of which has been taken away to my knowledge. What would’ve been gained by suspending him?  No one even talks about the bad press anymore.

Every time I shop at Publix I think about the logistical improbability of walking out with crab legs. 

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2 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Yeah, thank goodness we are there to fall on our sword for the sake of propriety, SLU is making a major difference for sports world wide!  And I say, so what if SLU defaults on the stadium bonds.  I am sure the banks will just forgive the loans, we are a Catholic University after all.

It doesn't matter if they are making a difference worldwide.

SLU can only affect how they act. No one else.

I know you are only worried about wins/losses - maybe you should be rooting for the University of Kentucky instead.

Not sure what the stadium bonds have to do with anything.

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How To Resolve Sit. 2.0

 

1. Realize we don't know the whole picture....or what exactly  happened originally....or how the timeline proceeds...or what is currently going on to resolve matters

...............Get frustrated

2 Speculate

.............Get frustrated

3 The speculation is wrong

.............Get frustrated

4 Speculate again

.............Get frustrated

5  Be wrong again.

............Get frustrated

6 Do this for at least 100 pages

.............Get frustrated

7  Repeat steps 1-6

............Get frustrated

When you have enough pages Sit 2.0 will resolve it self.....Then you may stop

Tick.....tick....tick

 

 

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Seems to me there is middle ground between doing nothing, favoring athletes over students and relying upon boosters to pay any judgements (Baylor, Florida State, etc ) and doing what SLU is doing).  Seems that punishment should fit the alleged act and not be based upon the efficiency of the investigation. SLU could levy a  pre-hearing temporary suspension until resolution up to 10 games, or up to 1 semester suspensions-ion at which time the boys can resume playing pending final determination at which time additional suspensions may be levied. 

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18 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Seems to me there is middle ground between doing nothing, favoring athletes over students and relying upon boosters to pay any judgements (Baylor, Florida State, etc ) and doing what SLU is doing).  Seems that punishment should fit the alleged act and not be based upon the efficiency of the investigation. SLU could levy a  pre-hearing temporary suspension until resolution up to 10 games, or up to 1 semester suspensions-ion at which time the boys can resume playing pending final determination at which time additional suspensions may be levied. 

Problem is, the middle ground, while trying to please everyone, pleases no one. 

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31 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Seems to me there is middle ground between doing nothing, favoring athletes over students and relying upon boosters to pay any judgements (Baylor, Florida State, etc ) and doing what SLU is doing).  Seems that punishment should fit the alleged act and not be based upon the efficiency of the investigation. SLU could levy a  pre-hearing temporary suspension until resolution up to 10 games, or up to 1 semester suspensions-ion at which time the boys can resume playing pending final determination at which time additional suspensions may be levied. 

SLU should have took no actions against the players beyond what are considered reasonable interim actions in the guidance from the DoE.  I am not a lawyer, but I really wonder if SLU has made themselves very open to a big law suit from the players by the interim actions they have took.  Here is part of the guidance as it relates to what the school should do to have an equitable investigation.

Quote

Question 6: What constitutes an “equitable” investigation?

Answer: In every investigation conducted under the school’s grievance procedures, the burden is on the school—not on the parties—to gather sufficient evidence to reach a fair, impartial determination as to whether sexual misconduct has occurred and, if so, whether a hostile environment has been created that must be redressed. A person free of actual or reasonably perceived conflicts of interest and biases for or against any party must lead the investigation on behalf of the school. Schools should ensure that institutional interests do not interfere with the impartiality of the investigation.

I think a good lawyer can make a very strong case that SLU's suspension of the players from game day activities was letting SLU's institutional interests interfere with the impartiality of the investigation.  The suspensions are a signal from SLU to those investigating and adjudicating the case that the players in fact did something wrong.  You can't just suspend the players because SLU worries that allowing them to play during the investigation would look bad.

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1 minute ago, billslasttermdropout said:

Without knowing  (obviously) the details of what actually transpired, if these guys get in trouble beyond a particular perceived level, I could see potentially someone putting out some feelers for potential G League partners/owners for the area.

What?

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6 minutes ago, brianstl said:

SLU should have took no actions against the players beyond what are considered reasonable interim actions in the guidance from the DoE.  I am not a lawyer, but I really wonder if SLU has made themselves very open to a big law suit from the players by the interim actions they have took.  He is part of the guidance as it relates to what the school should do to have an equitable investigation.

I think a good lawyer can make a very strong case that SLU's suspension of the players from game day activities was letting SLU's institutional interests interfere with the impartiality of the investigation.  The suspensions are a signal from SLU to those investigating and adjudicating the case that the players in fact did something wrong.  You can't just suspend the players because SLU worries that allowing them to play during the investigation would look bad.

But that's exactly what they did, for a lack of a better word.

But on the flip side of that coin, do you think the lawyers of the accused have found something so damning against the accusers that they are going to drag them through the same mud as their sons have been dragged through? I mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility that this is what's going on behind the scenes. 

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22 minutes ago, brianstl said:

You can't just suspend the players because SLU worries that allowing them to play during the investigation would look bad.

They can, and they did.  

 

Playing D1 college basketball is not a right.  Receiving a full ride scholarship is not a right.  Attending Saint Louis University is not a right.

 

The zen thing to do here is accept that these players have played their last minutes of Billikens basktball already.  That this season is lost.  And that this team has a serious hole in the backcourt for coming seasons.  Accept it and process those emotions.

If any of that turns out not to be true, it will be a pleasant and welcome surprise.

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14 minutes ago, ARon said:

They can, and they did.  

 

Playing D1 college basketball is not a right.  Receiving a full ride scholarship is not a right.  Attending Saint Louis University is not a right.

 

The zen thing to do here is accept that these players have played their last minutes of Billikens basktball already.  That this season is lost.  And that this team has a serious hole in the backcourt for coming seasons.  Accept it and process those emotions.

If any of that turns out not to be true, it will be a pleasant and welcome surprise.

I never implied any of those things are rights.  I have accepted SLU is going to suck for another five years.  If I was a player involved I would be gone at the semester.

However, Title IX is something that SLU has to comply with.  Title IX guidance states that SLU can't do that.  They will have to show that the interim measure was reasonable for meeting the individual needs of the students involved in the process.

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33 minutes ago, billslasttermdropout said:

Without knowing  (obviously) the details of what actually transpired, if these guys get in trouble beyond a particular perceived level, I could see potentially someone putting out some feelers for potential G League partners/owners for the area.

So... the players are going to get in trouble which will lead to St Louis acquiring a G League team? 

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