Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[slufan13]

Rosenblum is going to feed this theory that this case is not being handled correctly and that his clients are going to be the real victims in this case. If that idea starts to pick up media attention, it's not going to matter if SLU is actually handling this the right way.

[SLU_Lax]

It is a shame that the Athletic Department appears unwilling to bring up any of the concerns mentioned by those on this message board.  If these individuals did something terrible, then they should be removed from the SLU community as quickly as possible.  If they did not, they should either be told what their lessor penalty is or absolved of wrong doing.  This is not fair to anyone and it reminds me how the kids gone done wrong in Situation 1.0.

Imagine how bad this would be if the kids did not lawyer up.

[Pistol]

For those complaining about Tilkowsky, here's my Ignore feature tutorial that I give about once a month:

1. Click the drop down arrow next to your name in the upper-right corner.
2. "Ignored Users"
3. In the box under "Add new user to ignore list" start typing: "tilkowsky" as long as it takes for his name to come up.
4. Click the name, and choose what you'd like to ignore: Posts, Messages, Signature, and Mentions. In this case, I would recommend choosing all four.
5. "Add User" and you're all set!

This really works. Trust me. Once you start reading the board without the annoying people, you won't be tempted to choose "Options - show this post" when you see the message where their posts would be.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

Just now, Pistol said:

For those complaining about Tilkowsky, here's my Ignore feature tutorial that I give about once a month:

1. Click the drop down arrow next to your name in the upper-right corner.
2. "Ignored Users"
3. In the box under "Add new user to ignore list" start typing: "tilkowsky" as long as it takes for his name to come up.
4. Click the name, and choose what you'd like to ignore: Posts, Messages, Signature, and Mentions. In this case, I would recommend choosing all four.
5. "Add User" and you're all set!

This really works. Trust me. Once you start reading the board without the annoying people, you won't be tempted to choose "Options - show this post" when you see the message where their posts would be.

I don't even go that far. If I see his name, I simply move on to the post below his. No one can drive you crazy unless you give them your keys...

[SLU_Lax]

1 minute ago, slufan13 said:

Rosenblum is going to feed this theory that this case is not being handled correctly and that his clients are going to be the real victims in this case. If that idea starts to pick up media attention, it's not going to matter if SLU is actually handling this the right way.

SLU has always been very weak administratively.  I am confident that many minor procedural mistakes were made along the way.  It will just be how those mistakes are presented and spun.  Unfortunately I think Rosenblum is more effective at marketing his point-of-view than SLU will be.  I hope this gets resolved quickly because it could get REALLY ugly if Rosenblum gets it moved to the forum of public opinion.

[cheeseman]

54 minutes ago, William Kenneth said:

I'm also a bit perplexed by the statement's opening sentence.  Makes it sound like the players and their representation have tried to wait out the Title IX investigation, but weren't provided all of the evidence (i.e. exhibits and videos) until they expressed frustration with the investigation duration.  Shouldn't they have had access to all of the evidence from the beginning?  Or are all involved parties not necessarily entitled to everything being considered as part of a Title IX investigation?

Any evidence is usually not made available until you have to - trial, hearing or some resolution (positive or negative)  Since no hearing has taken place from what I can tell from the statement then I would think the release of the evidence is only at the schools decision.  I really think this should have come to a head by now - I realize that the school is going to be damned if they do and damned if they don't but that is going to happen anyway.

[slu72 fan]

Just now, SLU_Lax said:

It is a shame that the Athletic Department appears unwilling to bring up any of the concerns mentioned by those on this message board.  If these individuals did something terrible, then they should be removed from the SLU community as quickly as possible.  If they did not, they should either be told what their lessor penalty is or absolved of wrong doing.  This is not fair to anyone and it reminds me how the kids gone done wrong in Situation 1.0.

Imagine how bad this would be if the kids did not lawyer up.

This is not in the hands of the Athletic Department. Never has been. Everyone must realize they’ve been silenced. 

 

Does amyone one really believe that the staff doesn’t want a full roster playing! Come on folks, you can’t be that blind. They live with these kids all day, every day. They care about them as people. They want to see them succeed. Whatever unhappiness each of us feel, I’m convinced they feel many times over.

[cheeseman]

52 minutes ago, Pistol said:

To me, it reads like the attorney is saying they initially appealed for the ability to play (i.e. not face interim suspension during investigation), were denied, and now will appeal again because they're all getting impatient as the process drags beyond its handbook-defined parameters. If this went past 60 days without a Notice of Outcome, the attorneys probably figured that gave them cause for an appeal.

The questions I have are: Would the University release "exhibits and videos" before a ruling? Is this them saying that there has been a ruling, and they're appealing the official Outcome? It doesn't read like the latter, but to be honest, it's kind of a sloppy statement.

My last question is: Say these guys are appealing the whole interim suspension, including time served and any time yet to be served as this plays out in full. They've already missed 6 games (7, with exhibition) and there's no indication they're playing tomorrow. What would it mean in practical terms if they're fully exonerated? Just "sorry about your luck" for that time already served (i.e. suspensions)? Restitution of some kind?

Yes - this happens all the time when a person is arrested and then the charges are dropped without ever going to trial.

[slufan13]

2 minutes ago, slu72 fan said:

Does amyone one really believe that the staff doesn’t want a full roster playing!

Did someone say otherwise?

Also 100% agree with you that this isn't in the hands of the athletic department 

[JMM28]

1 minute ago, slu72 fan said:

This is not in the hands of the Athletic Department. Never has been. Everyone must realize they’ve been silenced. 

 

Does amyone one really believe that the staff doesn’t want a full roster playing! Come on folks, you can’t be that blind. They live with these kids all day, every day. They care about them as people. They want to see them succeed. Whatever unhappiness each of us feel, I’m convinced they feel many times over.

Right. The mens basketball staff are really getting a screw job in this deal. They have to deal with this on all fronts - parents of the players, the players in question, the rest of the team questioning WTF, recruiting suffering, media questioning, losing! They have no escape from it. 

It really is terrible that the Pestello administration is putting them in such a bind. Maybe he can lay off the twittering and be a leader instead of palling around campus. 

[brianstl]

16 minutes ago, kappy96 said:

While I agree with your premise that Tuna would be a good person to stir the pot, just because he brags about how he's marching down to Rosenblum's office doesn't mean he was actually invited.  He's been known to stretch (or ignore) the truth when it suits his cause. 

The way I look at it is that it makes perfect sense for Rosenblum to invite him.  I think it is foolish to think we aren't rapidly approaching the point where Rosenblum uses the fact that the players are black when attacking how this is being dealt with.

[keyser soze]

Once again the team should go on strike, heck if non students can occupy the clock tower to get Fred's attention, then the team should strike....

Gee tomorrow at Butler is going to be real fun.  Question, when does Rammer go full Harry Doyle?????

[Box and Won]

8 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

I don't even go that far. If I see his name, I simply move on to the post below his. No one can drive you crazy unless you give them your keys...

You should try the ignore function.  It's really nice.

[kappy96]

1 minute ago, brianstl said:

The way I look at it is that it makes perfect sense for Rosenblum to invite him.  I think it is foolish to think we aren't rapidly approaching the point where Rosenblum uses the fact that the players black when attacking how this is being dealt with.

You may well be right...we'll see if the next salvo that Rosenblum's office fires is a little more uncomfortable.

[SLU_Lax]

1 minute ago, slu72 fan said:

This is not in the hands of the Athletic Department. Never has been. Everyone must realize they’ve been silenced. 

 

Does amyone one really believe that the staff doesn’t want a full roster playing! Come on folks, you can’t be that blind. They live with these kids all day, every day. They care about them as people. They want to see them succeed. Whatever unhappiness each of us feel, I’m convinced they feel many times over.

This thought always upsets me.  The Athletic Department is in no way responsible for running this investigation. 

It does, however, have a responsibility to bring up legitimate concerns and to voice those concerns to Pestello.  Those concerns could include things like the school potentially not following their own guidelines on conducting investigations or could include things like how Situation 1.0 ran.  The Athletic Department has a real voice in all of this and should be using that voice internally to make sure things are handled properly and reasonably (as best as they can know not being directly involved).  The AD cannot simply just bury their head in the sand and wait for this to be over.

It was terrible in the newspaper listening to Chris May say that he assumes a statement will be made when the process and investigation is over.  He should know if they plan to make a statement or not.

The AD has a dog in this fight because if Rosenblum brings this into the court of public opinion (no matter what ultimately happens) the school looks awful.  We will look like we are both protecting predators and railroading sweet innocent kids and everything in between.  I guess step #1 is figuring out if this process involves any sort of public statement at the end.

 

[2010andBeyond]

Just now, SLU_Lax said:

This thought always upsets me.  The Athletic Department is in no way responsible for running this investigation. 

It does, however, have a responsibility to bring up legitimate concerns and to voice those concerns to Pestello.  Those concerns could include things like the school potentially not following their own guidelines on conducting investigations or could include things like how Situation 1.0 ran.  The Athletic Department has a real voice in all of this and should be using that voice internally to make sure things are handled properly and reasonably (as best as they can know not being directly involved).  The AD cannot simply just bury their head in the sand and wait for this to be over.

It was terrible in the newspaper listening to Chris May say that he assumes a statement will be made when the process and investigation is over.  He should know if they plan to make a statement or not.

The AD has a dog in this fight because if Rosenblum brings this into the court of public opinion (no matter what ultimately happens) the school looks awful.  We will look like we are both protecting predators and railroading sweet innocent kids and everything in between.  I guess step #1 is figuring out if this process involves any sort of public statement at the end.

 

You have no knowledge of what the AD/May has done or not done to this point. He has a boss it is in his best interests to listen to. 

[slu06]

30 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I don't think the intention of that statement was to address any specifics.  It was a shot across SLU's bow and the start of the players' side generating public outrage.

Well, compared to SLU's initial letter, this is vague and nebulous!

Imagine if they used some specific facts/dates...

Our clients, since day 1, have denied all accusations ....  No criminal charges has been pressed.  Our clients have been cooperating with all parties involved in an attempt to reach a speedy and just outcome.   Our clients were given notice on xyz that 123 was going to happen, and according to SLU's/Title IX's (or whatever) own stated rules, 123 has yet to happen.  Moreover, no good reason for the delay has been provided.  

Something simple, factually based, and objective would, in my opinion, would be more of a "shot across SLU's bow."

Also, regarding shot's across SLU's bow, if these guys want to stay at SLU and keep playing bball, not good to start a publicity fight, get cleared (hopefully), and then hope to be welcomed back by the administration with open arms.

 

 

[keyser soze]

2 minutes ago, SLU_Lax said:

This thought always upsets me.  The Athletic Department is in no way responsible for running this investigation. 

It does, however, have a responsibility to bring up legitimate concerns and to voice those concerns to Pestello.  Those concerns could include things like the school potentially not following their own guidelines on conducting investigations or could include things like how Situation 1.0 ran.  The Athletic Department has a real voice in all of this and should be using that voice internally to make sure things are handled properly and reasonably (as best as they can know not being directly involved).  The AD cannot simply just bury their head in the sand and wait for this to be over.

It was terrible in the newspaper listening to Chris May say that he assumes a statement will be made when the process and investigation is over.  He should know if they plan to make a statement or not.

The AD has a dog in this fight because if Rosenblum brings this into the court of public opinion (no matter what ultimately happens) the school looks awful.  We will look like we are both protecting predators and railroading sweet innocent kids and everything in between.  I guess step #1 is figuring out if this process involves any sort of public statement at the end.

 

Joe Conran as BOT Chairman needs to get the senior leadership in a room and explain to everyone, not as "Billikan", but as an attorney that this thing is going to blow up in the SLU's face...

[SLU_Lax]

2 minutes ago, 2010andBeyond said:

You have no knowledge of what the AD/May has done or not done to this point. He has a boss it is in his best interests to listen to.

That is fair.  I just get upset that this is dragging on so long and becoming increasingly a cluster.  I have no knowledge of what Pestello or anyone else has done.

I just worry that this is not going well.  Situation 1.0 upset me. 

The risk that this is going to make the AD and SLU look absolutely awful also is making me more nervous (regardless of what final decision is made or should be made).

I should be quiet and I hope that the school has this all under control and has been handling this perfectly and we will all understand that when it is concluded.

[slufan13]

If I were one of the women involved in this situation, I would be just as upset with the length and lack of transparency 

[brianstl]

10 minutes ago, slu06 said:

Well, compared to SLU's initial letter, this is vague and nebulous!

Imagine if they used some specific facts/dates...

Our clients, since day 1, have denied all accusations ....  No criminal charges has been pressed.  Our clients have been cooperating with all parties involved in an attempt to reach a speedy and just outcome.   Our clients were given notice on xyz that 123 was going to happen, and according to SLU's/Title IX's (or whatever) own stated rules, 123 has yet to happen.  Moreover, no good reason for the delay has been provided.  

Something simple, factually based, and objective would, in my opinion, would be more of a "shot across SLU's bow."

Also, regarding shot's across SLU's bow, if these guys want to stay at SLU and keep playing bball, not good to start a publicity fight, get cleared (hopefully), and then hope to be welcomed back by the administration with open arms.

 

 

Rosenblum's goal isn't to get the players in the good graces of the administration.  It is to get statement that clears the players in a way that leaves no doubt in most sane people's minds that his clients aren't sexual predators.  That way they can get a decent job when they have to enter the real world workforce. Rosenblum could care less if he has to torch the school and the basketball program to do that. 

That is why SLU needs to address how they are handling this case.

[philliken]

27 minutes ago, Pistol said:

For those complaining about Tilkowsky, here's my Ignore feature tutorial that I give about once a month:

1. Click the drop down arrow next to your name in the upper-right corner.
2. "Ignored Users"
3. In the box under "Add new user to ignore list" start typing: "tilkowsky" as long as it takes for his name to come up.
4. Click the name, and choose what you'd like to ignore: Posts, Messages, Signature, and Mentions. In this case, I would recommend choosing all four.
5. "Add User" and you're all set!

This really works. Trust me. Once you start reading the board without the annoying people, you won't be tempted to choose "Options - show this post" when you see the message where their posts would be.

 

Steve/Mods,

Since we can ignore users, is there a way you could make it where those we have on ignore could not see our posts?  If the trolls can't see anything, there isn't going to be a whole lot they can post about.  I still think it'd be easier (and deserved) to just ban certain posters, but I'm not by any means telling you how to run your site.  Just thinking outside the box.

[ACE]

4 minutes ago, philliken said:

 

Steve/Mods,

Since we can ignore users, is there a way you could make it where those we have on ignore could not see our posts?  If the trolls can't see anything, there isn't going to be a whole lot they can post about.  I still think it'd be easier (and deserved) to just ban certain posters, but I'm not by any means telling you how to run your site.  Just thinking outside the box.

+1 Much easier in the case of an obvious troll, rather than constantly trying to tell all board users to put somebody on ignore.

[Billy Ken]

I think it's a fair question to ask how the university handles title IX situations that do not involve MBB/student athletes. No matter what you opinion, the facts are the facts. There isn't any grey area in sexual assault cases. Can't imagine if one of these kids were one of my kids or grandkids. It's a living hell all around. And Pestello is excited about a Noodles restaurant coming to SLU? So odd and alarming.

[NH]

2 minutes ago, Billy Ken said:

I think it's a fair question to ask how the university handles title IX situations that do not involve MBB/student athletes. No matter what you opinion, the facts are the facts. There isn't any grey area in sexual assault cases. Can't imagine if one of these kids were one of my kids or grandkids. It's a living hell all around. And Pestello is excited about a Noodles restaurant coming to SLU? So odd and alarming.

There’s frequently tons of grey area involved in these cases which is one reason they’re often messy and difficult to assign blame.