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Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)


DoctorB

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51 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

A tried-and-true press method of wearing them down with the weight of ink until they have to say something. I'm not sure Hank, and by Hank I mean Avis Meyer, would have done it that way, though... 

They'd pick around it like meat on a chicken wing, though. I get the legality of it, but the University's legal counsel and P.R. people would tailor a message. It's only a matter of time - the clock is ticking to the start of the season. 

And maybe the "no news is good news" adage holds true here... but we're all waiting with bated Billiken breath.. 

The university has, at least publicly, responded appropriately. There is nothing more to say on this matter.

obviously ford and may wish they could be hitting the tv and radio circuits promoting what should a pretty great year. No sh’t. But some stuff is more important than “promoting” a product or granting every interview

 

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2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Why do these reporters keep speaking about this like Ford and May actually have a choice in the matter when it comes to speaking? They legally cannot speak on the topic. That hasn’t once been mentioned.

Because that doesn't fit their narrative.

Doesn't make for a good story.

Is there anyplace out on the internet that have named the four?

I sure haven't seen it.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, NextYearBill said:

Instead, you’ll read fewer stories about all the players, since our reporters can’t interview them. 

 

i always enjoyed the player profiles they feature before the start of every season. shucks 

Too True.  The post covers the Billikens like a middling high school team with delusions of grandeur..... 

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26 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

The university has, at least publicly, responded appropriately. There is nothing more to say on this matter.

obviously ford and may wish they could be hitting the tv and radio circuits promoting what should a pretty great year. No sh’t. But some stuff is more important than “promoting” a product or granting every interview

 

Good call, R&G; basically the entire SLU AD is in some sort of quasi gag order state right now.

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Aren't Mizzou practices closed to the media right now?  I swear I heard Dave Matter say that Mizzou's practices are closed to the media last week when Frank asked him how the basketball looked in Columbia.  Maybe, Hochman or Ortiz can get to the bottom of that story.

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53 minutes ago, For-DaLove said:

If your kid ever has doubts about their ability to obtain their dream job, show them one of Hochman's articles. Honestly, it blows my mind that this guy is paid to write. His articles are all over the place and never have structure.

He's no good, but, as NH said, Ortiz makes Hoch look like a Pulitzer winner

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There’s the innocent-until-proven-guilty aspect, of course.

And in the course of sports history, athletes have been accused of terrible things they actually didn’t do.

But at SLU, there is no transparency right now. And we’re left with wondering the worst. Whether they are charged or not, four members of this team were accused of sexual assault.

 

So Hochman needs to know their names right now so he can't put those names in the paper and have their names tied to sexual assault during any google search for the rest of their lives.  Who cares if they are completely innocent of the sexual assault charges,  Hochman's need to print their names outweighs the damage he would inflict on the rest of their lives.

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Let's say ford spoke to the media and May spoke to the media. What are they supposed to say? "The University is investigating and at this time there is nothing else to report"? How is that any more transparent?

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13 minutes ago, brianstl said:

So Hochman needs to know their names right now so he can't put those names in the paper and have their names tied to sexual assault during any google search for the rest of their lives.  Who cares if they are completely innocent of the sexual assault charges,  Hochman's need to print their names outweighs the damage he would inflict on the rest of their lives.

he not so subtly works in the name of one of our players 3x.... he is insinuating and it pissed me the F off

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3 minutes ago, NH said:

Let's say ford spoke to the media and May spoke to the media. What are they supposed to say? "The University is investigating and at this time there is nothing else to report"? How is that any more transparent?

It’s not about transparency. He needed something to write. He’s incapable of doing anything other than being a fanboy so this was his attempt to write a hard hitting piece 

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5 hours ago, aj_arete said:

Count me as a fan of both Hochman and Ortiz, but curious what you're referring with Ortiz's unprofessional nonsense.

If you're a fan of both you must not be a fan of informative or thoughtful sportswriting 

 

Ortiz wrote a piece about SLU closing practice that was gimmicky, contained no information or critical thought, contained no context and quite frankly should have been embarrassing to the Post-Dispatch 

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1 hour ago, For-DaLove said:

If your kid ever has doubts about their ability to obtain their dream job, show them one of Hochman's articles. Honestly, it blows my mind that this guy is paid to write. His articles are all over the place and never have structure.

It is not my intention, but every time I read his articles I naturally end up reading it in a Jim Rome voice/speaking style.

His ratio of periods to words has to be one of the highest in the biz.

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Hochman is horrible, but fwiw, Frank just said it was a good article. More importantly, he said the four players are in class and practicing. That's consistent with info I heard. If they are cleared, this Friday afternoon would be a good time for the news dump. Only about three weeks away now until the first exhibition game, so we'll know something more definitive by then.

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2 hours ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

They'd pick around it like meat on a chicken wing, though. I get the legality of it, but the University's legal counsel and P.R. people would tailor a message. It's only a matter of time - the clock is ticking to the start of the season.

And in this type of situation, legal > PR.

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I want to be excited about SLU basketball.

I am. Or, was.

Just a month ago, I was over at Chaifetz on a sunny day outside and inside the arena. Coach Travis Ford gushed about his guys. The team, with freshman Jordan Goodwin and a bunch of transfers, was supposed to actually be good, harkening to days of Top-25 rankings, Rick Majerus and our town’s “Larry Legend.” Of “Spoonball” and “H-Bombs” and Erwin Claggett, or back when they’d say on the PA: “Anthonyyyyyyy Bonner!”

 

But now, the media isn’t even allowed into the building for practice. Ford won’t speak publicly. Neither will athletics director Chris May. Four St. Louis University basketball players have been accused of sexual assault. And now we wait to find out their fate. The season starts Nov. 10.

Right now, like many St. Louisans, I just don’t know what to think about the Billikens.

There’s the innocent-until-proven-guilty aspect, of course.

And in the course of sports history, athletes have been accused of terrible things they actually didn’t do.

But at SLU, there is no transparency right now. And we’re left with wondering the worst. Whether they are charged or not, four members of this team were accused of sexual assault. And as Harvey Weinstein accusers come out in Hollywood — and the 2016 election’s “Access Hollywood” story forever looms — we’re now, perhaps more than ever, attuned to the frightening reality of famous people demanding sexual desires. It’s all rather disturbing.

If the players truly are not guilty, this all sure stinks for them. Over the years covering sports, I’ve heard horror stories of athletes being accused of things. Or blackmailed. Fame is an unpredictable and precarious world.

 

But in the short term, we’re left simply wondering what happened that night on SLU’s campus — and what’s happening inside SLU’s arena. Or, we’re left just not thinking about SLU basketball at all.

SLU forever has been trying to peck its way into the local sports scene — and into the local sports news cycle — and this fall was expected to do so. Cards out of the playoffs. Mizzou football has one win. A renewed SLU hoops program could’ve actually been relevant, even in preseason preparation. Instead, you’ll read fewer stories about all the players, since our reporters can’t interview them. And you’ll see less on the local newscasts. And since the assault accusations broke, the team’s Twitter account has tweeted only three times. By comparison, Mizzou’s twitter account has tweeted 26 times, and Illinois’ has tweeted 28 times.

And while this might seem like a smaller issue, a team’s social media identity is important in a smartphone era, in which recruits are constantly consuming tweets. A lot of times, it’s just about keeping up and staying relevant. Right now, the only thing we know about SLU is, essentially, nothing. It’s a bad look — the poison they’ve picked. SLU won’t even reveal if anyone has yet to be suspended. The program had seized momentum, and now it has ceased momentum.

 

It’s all too bad. I wanted to get excited about SLU basketball this season. I don’t know if casual sports fans realize how thrilling the local hoops scene will be this winter. New coaches at Mizzou and Illinois, and top local talent — which also happens to be top-100 national talent — at all three schools, including Goodwin at SLU.

In the meantime, it appears that SLU basketball has only a few public appearances until the first game. On Saturday, there’s a fancy-pants soiree (literally, The Billiken Sneaker Soiree), which costs $150 and includes a cocktail hour and auction. That sort of thing. Then Atlantic 10 media day is Tuesday. And there will be the inevitably awkward first exhibition game Nov. 4. Will that be the first time we hear the interviewed voices of SLU players since the incident? The first time we learn whether the roster is intact?

Maybe this can be a teaching moment for, well, any sports team. Coaches, remind your athletes to respect the people they’re intimate with. Show your athletes how one player (or, in this case, four) can cause negative ripple effects and ramifications that overwhelm an entire team. Show them how because of this, the latest articles about SLU basketball these days include this: “The women — two of whom are students at the university — went to a St. Louis hospital about 2:30 a.m. Sunday, less than two hours after the alleged assaults occurred.”

And this statement, from SLU President Fred Pestello: “Sexual assault, misconduct and harassment of any kind have no place at our University.”

We’ll see what happens with the Billikens. Maybe there won’t be charges. Maybe there will be minor suspensions, and by Thanksgiving we’ll just be talking about Goodwin at point guard and these amazing transfers.

But as of now, I have this image in my head of that new Billikens mascot head, with a tear going down its cheek. I find it hard to get excited about Billikens basketball, because now it’s not just about basketball.

 

The article for those who don't want to ruin their computers with the STLTODAY popups. 

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16 minutes ago, ACE said:

Hochman is horrible, but fwiw, Frank just said it was a good article. More importantly, he said the four players are in class and practicing. That's consistent with info I heard. If they are cleared, this Friday afternoon would be a good time for the news dump. Only about three weeks away now until the first exhibition game, so we'll know something more definitive by then.

I think you may well be wrong ACE. This issue is running on two independent tracks a legal track and a University track. IF the University has decided to wait for the legal issue to clear first, then they have no reason to keep any players from attending class, or practice, or even playing. So we may see them playing when the season opens. This does not mean that the University's code of conduct issue which is separate than the legal issue will not be dealt with at all, or that they have been exonerated by the University, or that the legal proceedings is the only issue of relevance in this affair.

If you see them playing, all that it may mean is that the University will deal with its own issues at a later date, in other words, the University sanctions may be suspended pending the termination of the legal inquiry and its follow up, if any. You can count on the fact that no one will make any statements for the University until they are ready to do so.

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29 minutes ago, NH said:

Ortiz wrote a piece about SLU closing practice that was gimmicky, contained no information or critical thought, contained no context and quite frankly should have been embarrassing to the Post-Dispatch 

This is (and has been for a long time) an impossibility. 

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2 hours ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

A tried-and-true press method of wearing them down with the weight of ink until they have to say something. I'm not sure Hank, and by Hank I mean Avis Meyer, would have done it that way, though... 

They'd pick around it like meat on a chicken wing, though. I get the legality of it, but the University's legal counsel and P.R. people would tailor a message. It's only a matter of time - the clock is ticking to the start of the season. 

And maybe the "no news is good news" adage holds true here... but we're all waiting with bated Billiken breath.. 

good Waylon reference

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14 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I think you may well be wrong ACE. This issue is running on two independent tracks a legal track and a University track. IF the University has decided to wait for the legal issue to clear first, then they have no reason to keep any players from attending class, or practice, or even playing. So we may see them playing when the season opens. This does not mean that the University's code of conduct issue which is separate than the legal issue will not be dealt with at all, or that they have been exonerated by the University, or that the legal proceedings is the only issue of relevance in this affair.

If you see them playing, all that it may mean is that the University will deal with its own issues at a later date, in other words, the University sanctions may be suspended pending the termination of the legal inquiry and its follow up, if any. You can count on the fact that no one will make any statements for the University until they are ready to do so.

I don't see the university letting them play games if they believe there is a realistic chance that legal or university hearings would find the players guilty of sexual assault. I'm sure SLU understands the value of expediency here and every indication we have received is there won't be legal proceedings (you may not be privy to some of the same information I am which is why you keep insisting legal proceedings are quite possible). I fully expect this to be resolved, one way or the other, by the time the season starts.

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3 minutes ago, NH said:

Can you say what you mean?

Any number of things have happened while or since I was there that illustrate an utter collapse of standards. A large part of this is the complete impossibility of putting out a "good" (by old-fart standards) product with no copy editors, an average age that's rapidly approaching 25 and resulting obliteration of institutional memory, and succumbing (they had not much choice) to the "feed the beast" approach to journalism. 

Plus a significant portion of management has simply come up through the ranks of "classic" journalism (and at least a few are incompetent), so they don't even know what they don't know. 

Clear enough? 

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