Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[hsmith19]

6 hours ago, slufan13 said:

Sounds like a great student government to tell people that they already think the accused are guilty 

Where did I say anything about guilt or innocence? They shared with me what they were told the allegations were. And as I said, their version might not be accurate. But if you're one of those people who believe college girls run around making up stories about sexual assault and going through traumatic rape exams in hospitals for kicks and giggles, I don't have anything else to say to you.

[slufan13]

1 minute ago, hsmith19 said:

Where did I say anything about guilt or innocence? They shared with me what they were told the allegations were. And as I said, their version might not be accurate. But if you're one of those people who believe college girls run around making up stories about sexual assault and going through traumatic rape exams in hospitals for kicks and giggles, I don't have anything else to say to you.

Okay since I never said that or think that, I guess the last part of your post is irrelevant. 

[almaman]

Again it seems some MBMs know more about this then is being posted. seems unfair to automatically assume athletes are from the basketball team but if that is already known please post or pm me

[billikenfan05]

3 minutes ago, hsmith19 said:

Where did I say anything about guilt or innocence? They shared with me what they were told the allegations were. And as I said, their version might not be accurate. But if you're one of those people who believe college girls run around making up stories about sexual assault and going through traumatic rape exams in hospitals for kicks and giggles, I don't have anything else to say to you.

At the risk of sounding insensitive: It is possible that the girls think that what they were reporting was sexual assault but actually was not? I’m trying to give both parties benefit of the doubt here.

[hsmith19]

Just now, slufan13 said:

Okay since I never said that or think that, I guess the last part of your post is irrelevant. 

If you had some kind of a point here, feel free to make it clear. I've already said the version I got might not be accurate. But if their version of the allegations is accurate, then either not just one but three girls made up a whopper or the players really effed up.

Others have already brought up the "college girls cry rape for fun all the time" line here, which is just plain gross.

[hsmith19]

1 minute ago, billikenfan05 said:

At the risk of sounding insensitive: It is possible that the girls think that what they were reporting was sexual assault but actually was not? I’m trying to give both parties benefit of the doubt here.

Yeah, I suspect that's exactly what happened here and in 2010 for that matter. These things usually involve a disagreement over who consented to what after the fact.

The question for SLU isn't whether what happened was sexual assault under a criminal definition, though. I'm already assuming it was not, although i could be proven wrong on that too.

[LongLiveLisch]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

Yes, if this all plays out like I think it might.  We won't have to worry about making any road trips anywhere this season.  You got to have enough guys to put on the court to play those games.  Forget about recruiting any D1 level basketball players for at least the next five years.  SLU is going to poison in all recruits mind.  

Jeez. There's sexual assault cases every year in division 1 athletics. This will likely mirror more of a 2013 Ohio State football case than the Baylor scandal.

This year's team will be highly impacted, and the players involved may not be around for future seasons.  But the reason any of us are excited for this season is because of Ford's ability to get recruits. Until I hear Gordon has decomitted because of this, I'm still optimistic for our future.

 

 

[Coach314]

I don't have any details besides what i am reading in the comments.  So instead i am focusing on the letter from the President.  "Behavior that runs counter to our mission and values".  "Sexual assault, misconduct and harassment of ANY kind have no place at our University".  Based off those statements there has to be punishment dealt out.  Even IF there was no assault i would gather they view it as misconduct and the behavior displayed that night unacceptable for students representing the University.  

[hsmith19]

3 hours ago, brianstl said:

This all is in conflict with the latest guidelines released by the DoE on Title IX sexual assault cases.  School decision makers must approach all of these cases with objectivity and impartiality.  Institutional interests can not allow investigators to have any conflict of interest or bias against any party.  The standard of evidence used by the school must be consistent with the standard of evidence used in any other student misconduct case.

None of what you just said about Title IX is in conflict with what I said. An impartial investigation under Title IX does not require the same presumption of innocence that a criminal charge does.

[RiseAndGrind]

1 hour ago, BigMouthBilliken said:

"Student animals"

-fixed it for you

What the ***

[Box and Won]

26 minutes ago, almaman said:

Again it seems some MBMs know more about this then is being posted. seems unfair to automatically assume athletes are from the basketball team but if that is already known please post or pm me

It's basketball players.

[brianstl]

12 minutes ago, LongLiveLisch said:

Jeez. There's sexual assault cases every year in division 1 athletics. This will likely mirror more of a 2013 Ohio State football case than the Baylor scandal.

This year's team will be highly impacted, and the players involved may not be around for future seasons.  But the reason any of us are excited for this season is because of Ford's ability to get recruits. Until I hear Gordon has decomitted because of this, I'm still optimistic for our future.

 

 

The big problem is we aren't Baylor or Ohio St..  Those programs have things working for them that SLU doesn't.  

[LongLiveLisch]

1 minute ago, brianstl said:

The big problem is we aren't Baylor or Ohio St..  Those programs have things working for them that SLU doesn't.  

Are you suggesting Baylor came out unscathed...?

 

[hsmith19]

17 minutes ago, LongLiveLisch said:

Jeez. There's sexual assault cases every year in division 1 athletics. This will likely mirror more of a 2013 Ohio State football case than the Baylor scandal.

This year's team will be highly impacted, and the players involved may not be around for future seasons.  But the reason any of us are excited for this season is because of Ford's ability to get recruits. Until I hear Gordon has decomitted because of this, I'm still optimistic for our future.

 

 

Yeah...the idea that the whole team is going to quit and we won't have five guys to put on the court is just a bit hysterical.

[juniorbill76]

A female fairly recent alum in my office hadn't heard about this until I mentioned it this afternoon. (Just sharing a data point.)

[brianstl]

1 minute ago, LongLiveLisch said:

Are you suggesting Baylor came out unscathed...?

 

I am saying Baylor is better equipped to survive and recover.

[billikenfan05]

Just now, juniorbill76 said:

A female fairly recent alum in my office hadn't heard about this until I mentioned it this afternoon. (Just sharing a data point.)

I spoke with a girl who's currently on campus and all they are really getting is the infamous tweet that hasn't been, and shouldn't be shared.

[moytoy12]

22 minutes ago, Coach314 said:

I don't have any details besides what i am reading in the comments.  So instead i am focusing on the letter from the President.  "Behavior that runs counter to our mission and values".  "Sexual assault, misconduct and harassment of ANY kind have no place at our University".  Based off those statements there has to be punishment dealt out.  Even IF there was no assault i would gather they view it as misconduct and the behavior displayed that night unacceptable for students representing the University.  

Agreed. 

[hsmith19]

It hasn't been mentioned on here because we're focused on 2010, but there was also that freshman charged with rape in a dorm just this past spring.

[davidnark]

I have no inside knowledge of this situation, but I wouldn't read too much into the President's statement because it was pretty much standard legal/public relations CYA.

I do hope both the accused and accusers have adequate and fair representation this time around in a fair and transparent process. I had heard that wasn't the case last go round.

[NextYearBill]

saw some of the boys looking in good spirits at the Career Fair this afternoon... just saying 

[Bobby Metzinger]

For the PR-minded among us, this isn't even registering on the national sports Richter scale right now; this is a regional news story at the moment. With everything else going on in the sporting world and the much larger NCAA/FBI story taking hold, it might not have the chicken little effect on recruits that some might think. 

[Spoon-Balls]

51 minutes ago, hsmith19 said:

It hasn't been mentioned on here because we're focused on 2010, but there was also that freshman charged with rape in a dorm just this past spring.

 

That situation was completely different and involved overwhelming evidence to corroborate the victim's story: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/slu-freshman-charged-with-raping-woman-on-campus/article_cdb3cfe2-d26f-5085-9da1-d6eefdd03cf7.html

 

I know there aren't a whole lot of details, but if there was any sort of clear physical abuse then the players involved would have been arrested by now. 

[gravilst]

If it comes out that the players involved did in fact do something illegal (even if lack of evidence to convict); then by all means get rid of them.   If the players were simply involved with a case of "i gave consent but don't decided after I wasn't ok with some aspects of it" then the players should not be punished.   If details come out and the players in fact did nothing illegal, then why should they be punished?  I understand that SLU has to do something, but to suspend player(s) based on these grounds when stuff like this happens at SLU outside of student athletes, and nothing really happens to those students.  Its not right that you should make a more harsh punishment based simply on the fact of it being student athletes.  If SLU went down this road as an alumnus (2010) who attends nearly every event SLU has, donates 4x a year; I would definitely discontinue my support for my school. Quite frankly SLU can ill afford to loose any donors right now.  Now this is only under the presumption that the students did nothing wrong.  If they did something illegal then by all means kick them out.   

[slufan13]

I feel like it's likely that the school's sexual misconduct policy was violated even if no criminal charges. I think the ranges of punishment for that are anywhere from a slap on the wrist to expulsion. I had a person on my floor freshmen year who violated the policy and he was banned from on-campus housing (living there or being in friends' apartments) and he also got a length community service sentence. So that situation and then the 2010 situation are my only insight into it potential punishments but I assume anything could happen. I don't know that I see a scenario where no punishment happens even if proven 100% innocent. It just won't look good from a PR standpoint, right or wrong.