Recruiting - 2021

[Taj79]

To add on ....maybe we have that already in Collins and Hargrove.  I also think Jimmmerson has a mean streak in him as well.  Sustainability --- another year under Goodwin's and French's example might further cement the foundation.

[Pistol]

32 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

Just curious: but can someone cut through the hundreds of posts and just take a stab at listing some of the top recruits of 2021, that we might actually snag this summer/ fall?? Which are the ones we have a strong chance at signing?  Any serious buzz about any of them??  Intuitions?  Heart throb wish lists that may actually happen??

More ambitiously; are there any that are comparable to a Goodwin-type stud who will come in and help lead the program for the next 4 years?

The noise has already been cut through for us - Nesbitt and Kern are the guys who fit this profile and they're the ones who were in attendance.

The other two local kids in this class close to that tier are Sekou Gassama and Yaya Keita from DeSmet. Both are bigs, both are from Mali (where Diarra is from), and both have been to games. Gassama is a regular.

There are a few other guys - Kelvin Lee, Jr. has an offer and we're probably keeping an eye on a few more - but I'd take any of the above four in a heartbeat. I can't speak to their intentions but the relationships with all four and their coaches/parents are solid, from what I can tell.

[wgstl]

I thought we had  a small chance with Nesbitt?  Has this changed? 

[billiken_roy]

nesbit is a sure thing stud imo.   however, a goodwin motor is a once in a lifetime thing.   lisch may have approached that effort, but not a goodwin's level.   and add to that motor his ability to get up and having about a 7 foot wing span.   yes a once in a lifetime thing imo.   now if he can just shoot 3's and free throws.

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, Pistol said:

 

There are a few other guys - Kelvin Lee, Jr. has an offer and we're probably keeping an eye on a few more - but I'd take any of the above four in a heartbeat. I can't speak to their intentions but the relationships with all four and their coaches/parents are solid, from what I can tell.

i was talking to a Webster coach the day after Webster played kelvin lee jr, and pretty much what he said was 1) they didnt game plan for him at all for a reason , 2) they were surprised he has an offer from SLU. 

[DoctorB]

8 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

To add on ....maybe we have that already in Collins and Hargrove.  I also think Jimmmerson has a mean streak in him as well.

I am just over the top thrilled with this freshman class.  Let's not underestimate how good they will be in 2 years; they are already lightyears ahead of Nov.  Best ever complete freshman class since I've been here, (1998, after Larry) and I think time will vindicate this opinion.  They are just awesome and I'm also very impressed with Bell, who has come a long way.  So if we add a few of those guys like Nesbitt, Kern, Lee, and so on:  WOW!

[wgstl]

8 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

  I also think Jimmmerson has a mean streak in him as well.  S

Jimersons most underrated aspect for a frosh was how well he could create his own shot. Aggressive attacking then pulled up. 

[Pistol]

Just now, wgstl said:

i was talking to a Webster coach the day after Webster played kelvin lee jr, and pretty much what he said was 1) they didnt game plan for him at all for a reason , 2) they were surprised he has an offer from SLU. 

I doubt it's a committable offer. He's a long shooter with some upside and a long way to go. It's a speculative offer. I think it was 3star who made the Zeke Moore comp, if you want a sense of where he might project for now.

[ACE]

5 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

To add on ....maybe we have that already in Collins and Hargrove.  I also think Jimmmerson has a mean streak in him as well.  Sustainability --- another year under Goodwin's and French's example might further cement the foundation.

I agree, when Goodwin and French graduate, it will become Collins team. In addition to GJ, surrounding Collins with a couple other good scorers shouldn't be that difficult... replacing the rebounding and toughness of Goodwin and French will be the challenge.

[wgstl]

5 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I doubt it's a committable offer. He's a long shooter with some upside and a long way to go. It's a speculative offer. I think it was 3star who made the Zeke Moore comp, if you want a sense of where he might project for now.

thats a good comp imo. A noncommitable offer is just the weirdest thing 

[Pistol]

Just now, wgstl said:

thats a good comp imo. A noncommitable offer is just the weirdest thing 

Ford was saying you have to offer or move on these days. Kids want an offer or the interest won't be mutual for long. So you wind up with more offers but not all of them are committable.

I don't think this is the case with all players or that it's 100% the explanation here (Kelvin Lee Sr. coached at SLU and all over the STL HS landscape, and Jr. truly is a bit of a reach at this point). But that's a big factor.

[NH]

Kern actually reminds me of Goodwin a little bit in that his best role seems to be as a super role player. By that I mean he's not a typical scorer or lead guard, but just finds little ways to help his team win. I'd be ecstatic about adding Kern (and Nesbitt) to our squad.

[billiken_roy]

7 minutes ago, NH said:

Kern actually reminds me of Goodwin a little bit in that his best role seems to be as a super role player. By that I mean he's not a typical scorer or lead guard, but just finds little ways to help his team win. I'd be ecstatic about adding Kern (and Nesbitt) to our squad.

to be compared to goodwin imo is the relentlessness.   willing to play defense end to end, rebounding with an intensity that no one can match, diving for any loose ball, if you cant grab it, tip it.   etc.   is kern that?

[Pistol]

4 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

to be compared to goodwin imo is the relentlessness.   willing to play defense end to end, rebounding with an intensity that no one can match, diving for any loose ball, if you cant grab it, tip it.   etc.   is kern that?

We're never going to find true comps for Goodwin or French so I don't think it's even worth asking these questions and I wish they hadn't been brought up in the first place. They're the closest thing to "unicorn" players (i.e. guys whose games are extremely unique and lacking of true comps) we've had in a long time.

2021 is technically the replacement class for Goodwin and French but there are no replacement players. The truth is that we're going to have a different roster and different playing style when they leave.

Goodwin in particular is a one-of-a-kind player in D-I basketball this season. It'd be foolish to search high and low for someone just like him.

To circle back to your question, Kern plays extremely hard. If you're recruiting based on effort and intensity, he gets an offer that stays fresh and committable as long as he's available.

[DoctorB]

Clarifying more:  I am not looking for "true comps for Goodwin or French."  I like the idea of unicorns: unique players.  We got 2, same class, with JG & HF.  Jordair Jett was another unicorn in recent memory.

But I do want to get guys with truly elite skills for Div. I.  Generally, to be a top A10 player like those 2, you need to be elite in at least one area.  And I like hearing about Kern's relentless motor.  With Goodwin, it's much more than just motor and drive and all those abstractions.  Talk about a unicorn.  If anything he has gotten even better at rebounding, and I did not think that was possible.  He had a few against St. B. that were just spectacular. 

So maybe "replacing" those 2 is not my point;  but we must "reload" and after this year's spectacular freshmen, getting a few more next year will be a perfectly spaced 2 year recruiting coup.

[Cowboy]

-I heard Kern is going to play with BBE this summer, anyone else hear this? I have been told that he really likes SLU, so we have that going for us

 

[billiken_roy]

9 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

Clarifying more:  I am not looking for "true comps for Goodwin or French."  I like the idea of unicorns: unique players.  We got 2, same class, with JG & HF.  Jordair Jett was another unicorn in recent memory.

But I do want to get guys with truly elite skills for Div. I.  Generally, to be a top A10 player like those 2, you need to be elite in at least one area.  And I like hearing about Kern's relentless motor.  With Goodwin, it's much more than just motor and drive and all those abstractions.  Talk about a unicorn.  If anything he has gotten even better at rebounding, and I did not think that was possible.  He had a few against St. B. that were just spectacular. 

So maybe "replacing" those 2 is not my point;  but we must "reload" and after this year's spectacular freshmen, getting a few more next year will be a perfectly spaced 2 year recruiting coup.

watch the tip that goodwin had in the first half.  he actually missed the ball with his right hand and reached back and got a bank in tip with his left hand all in one motion.   it was pretty unbelievable when watched in slo mo

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, wgstl said:

Jimersons most underrated aspect for a frosh was how well he could create his own shot. Aggressive attacking then pulled up. 

Now I'm thinking about Jimerson at the 2 and Perkins at the 3 coming off screens all night and I'm working up a bit of a chub.

[DoctorB]

ps: Yuri might turn out to be an elite passer; and TJ might turn into an elite finisher at the rim... Thatch (a soph. redshirt so now part of the freshmen group), when healthy can be an elite defender.  Bell has elite big man body in formation, still TBA. And GJ is obviously an elite shooter.  'nuff said about these freshmen.

[Billikenbooster]

23 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Now I'm thinking about Jimerson at the 2 and Perkins at the 3 coming off screens all night and I'm working up a bit of a chub.

Zach, they're both 2.5

mhg

[ACE]

Earl and Frank on now - talking about Nesbitt and Kern. Nothing really new, but gushing about Nesbitt.

[Sheltiedave]

Kern has the relentless drive that Goodwin has, but his physical tools are in the mold of an athletic slasher, while Goodwin is a 6’3” power forward. Kern has a faster first step, is a physically confident player, and a better handle at the same point in high school.

Kern is a very good Hargrove type player, who I see as adding 20 pounds in college and being a bear at small forward. Goodwin started out where Hargrove and Kern could end up.

Keep in mind our bully ball was extremely effective because we had to slow the pace, and limit possessions, due to years of less efficient offense, poor shooting, and guards that could not push hard.

Now we have the wing shooters, we have a point guard who can relentlessly push pace, and we are closing in on yet another slasher/finisher who can punish teams on the break.

We will need a rim protector, but speed and toughness can serve as capably as bully toughness. A 6’9” tower can be the enforcer, with Bell being the space eater bully holding forth on the other side of the lane.

[slufanskip]

2 hours ago, DoctorB said:

I am just over the top thrilled with this freshman class.  Let's not underestimate how good they will be in 2 years; they are already lightyears ahead of Nov.  Best ever complete freshman class since I've been here, (1998, after Larry) and I think time will vindicate this opinion.  They are just awesome and I'm also very impressed with Bell, who has come a long way.  So if we add a few of those guys like Nesbitt, Kern, Lee, and so on:  WOW!

I'm with you on this class. We have 4 players who could potentially be all league level performers on one of the 3 teams in one class. Bell, Jimerson, Hargrove, and Collins all imo have the potential to be all league level performers before their careers are up. That's a great class. 

[3star_recruit]

2 hours ago, Taj79 said:

To add on ....maybe we have that already in Collins and Hargrove.  I also think Jimmmerson has a mean streak in him as well.  Sustainability --- another year under Goodwin's and French's example might further cement the foundation.

To add on to your add on: the whole point of stacking classes is that your next leader is already on the roster.  If you're looking to find Goodwin and French's immediate replacements in the 2021 class, you're hustling backwards.  The next great Billiken squad will operate quite differently from this one, because the "next men up" are dramatically different players than Goodwin and French.  It will be a guard-dominated, outside shooting team.  Then when those guys graduate, we may well revert back to bully ball, depending on who we get in 2021 and 2022.

[Billikenbooster]

And as this continues, we have ourselves 'a program'.  Earl talked about Ford's development of a program, continually recruiting, finding players, then adapting his style to the players he has on the roster.  To me that is what a modern coach has to do to survive.  Players will be having increased mobility going forward, SLU will need to keep its players happy, and make them want to come to Chaifetz to play.

mhg