Recruiting - 2020 Class (Optimal Vision Class)

[moytoy12]

Interesting, Okoro sitting out regardless of new transfer rule...

 

[WVBilliken]

20 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

I think Yuri will make a leap as far as his confidence and scoring.   He has the skills and ability.  Will he be our top scorer?  No, but I think he will start to become more of a well-rounded player and not just be the "pass first" PG he was.  It's all about keeping team's honest.   With better outside shooting from Jimerson, Perkins and Jacobs (possibly from Fred, Markhi and Andre), with a mid-range shot among Marten, Bell and/or French, then the need for Yuri to score will be reduced.   Even still, offensive production from all 5 guys will only make the team better.  Will Yuri be that player on day 1?  I hope so but I doubt it.

Again, I may be in the minority - and not looking to re-hash or start a controversy when one does not exist, but when limited minutes are being spread around, but minutes can therefore come from Yuri until he scores.  I would not simply not give 32 mpg to a player who does not score.   Injuries and illness to Jimerson & Thatch led our guys to playing other positions this past year.   Hankton not deserving minutes and being injured further reduced the demand for minutes among guards.  Next you thing you know, Yuri was hardly coming out of the game as Goodwin stopped playing PG and Jacobs was being turned to as the guy we needed to be our leading scorer and perimeter threat -- and as such, he was not yet ready.   Instead, Perkins came out of no where and picked up the slack.

"I would not simply give 32 mpg to a player who does not score"  ........  Collins plays 30 minutes even if he does not improve on his 5.4 points a game he had as a freshman.  There is way, way more to basketball than scoring (see perennial loser Carmelo Anthony).  

Collins handles the ball like a wizard, passes and sees the floor like no player SLU has had for a long time.  He plays tough defense.  He plays with passion.  Some of the skills he has, well, nobody else on the squad has them.  

For me, scoring baskets is not at the top of my wish list for Collins.  First, he needs to lower his turnovers.  As great as he played, he had 99 turnovers, they seemed to come in spurts.  Would like to see that lowered.  Maybe slightly fewer minutes, or healthy thumbs takes care of that.  His FT shooting at 56% needs to improve.  Heck, take that to 70-75% and his scoring goes up a point a game.  He shot 36.7% from 3 pt land, not bad at all.  His 2 pt shooting was south of 40%.  Lots of missed close in shots.  That could improve just by having Jimerson and more 3 pt shooting opening up the floor.  

But even without improvement, put Collins down down for 30 minutes a game.  He makes everyone on the floor better ..... 

[SLURadioBoy]

1 hour ago, moytoy12 said:

Interesting, Okoro sitting out regardless of new transfer rule...

 

If he happened to commit to SLU, I would be in favor of this. Let him recover this season, and then he can replace French for the following two seasons.

[Sheltiedave]

Clock_Tower, Collins just led the team to the highest assist total for the entire ESPN stats dbase, which goes back to M Perry and J Fisher, as a frosh.

It would be nice to see him plop another three a game, but he has four hungry mouths to feed next season in French, Goodwin, Perkins, and Jimerson first. They all will be double digit scorers. Bell, Hargrove, Jacobs and Linssen will pop as well.

[mdscott24]

57 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Clock_Tower, Collins just led the team to the highest assist total for the entire ESPN stats dbase, which goes back to M Perry and J Fisher, as a frosh.

It would be nice to see him plop another three a game, but he has four hungry mouths to feed next season in French, Goodwin, Perkins, and Jimerson first. They all will be double digit scorers. Bell, Hargrove, Jacobs and Linssen will pop as well.

Agreed. That one more back breaking 3 and one more finish at the rim and you have another double figure scorer. 

[brianstl]

2 hours ago, NH said:

Okoro played Yuri and Hargrove on Brad Beal Elite. Would be a terrific pickup, if the scholarship situation worked out. We still *theoretically* could lose Hasahn or Jordan to the draft, so maybe the coaching staff is playing it safe in case of that.

He played with Thatch the year before, too.

[Clock_Tower]

1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

Clock_Tower, Collins just led the team to the highest assist total for the entire ESPN stats dbase, which goes back to M Perry and J Fisher, as a frosh.

It would be nice to see him plop another three a game, but he has four hungry mouths to feed next season in French, Goodwin, Perkins, and Jimerson first. They all will be double digit scorers. Bell, Hargrove, Jacobs and Linssen will pop as well.

Yes.   I get it.  And just to restate my initial thoughts -- I believe Yuri will make the next leap.   He will become a legitimate scoring threat and he will burn opponents who back off him.  I say this b/c, again, he has the skill and ability - and as we all know, he was limited this past year due to chronic injuries to both of his wrists.   Add normal improvement having a year under his belt, and the leap will be there for Yuri's game.   

And again, not looking to rehash this topic. My thoughts are well known and are not meant to be a shot at a fine, young, really good player. What did prompt my comments, of course, is where will the minutes for all these good players come from?  Next year's roster is set to be far, far better than this year's roster - and we were good this year.   Will agree to disagree but not willing to play anyone nearly the whole game without scoring production. 

  

[Compton]

4 hours ago, SLURadioBoy said:

If he happened to commit to SLU, I would be in favor of this. Let him recover this season, and then he can replace French for the following two seasons.

 

Sounds like a potentially good match. But no more scholarships unfortunately. 

[SLURadioBoy]

7 hours ago, Compton said:

 

Sounds like a potentially good match. But no more scholarships unfortunately. 

Oh, I know. I should have mentioned if a scholarship became available and he committed to SLU.

[Sheltiedave]

Clock, I agree with you in that  I hope one of the three open schollies next year would be filled with a 6’2” to 6’5” scoring PG, on my dream list. Also on the list would be a rim defender with major hops, and an agile PF.

I think Collins will follow a development similar to Jett, where he will obsessively work on weaker facets of his game, and improve to the point of being CPOY his senior season as well.
His pg play is a little different than most- he learned the small guard play where he likes doing little needle slip passes, while Jett liked getting a shoulder past his opponent and going straight to the hole. Mitchell liked being physical and shouldering smaller or weaker guards off him, and passing over and around defenders. Perry played PF in high school at Marshall, so he loved playing near the paint, and laying his patented spin move on guards in the paint.

One possible negative about Collins establishing himself as a 3pt threat...as he gets defended at the arc, his open driving lanes change radically, from doing arc drives with a screen and dish, to getting his shoulder past and driving the lanes, where he was markedly less successful frosh year.

 

[slu72]

Yurimania will get his minutes because the offense runs much better thru him and he’s a tenacious defender. Book closed.,

[Crewsorlose]

56 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Clock, I agree with you in that  I hope one of the three open schollies next year would be filled with a 6’2” to 6’5” scoring PG, on my dream list. Also on the list would be a rim defender with major hops, and an agile PF.

I think Collins will follow a development similar to Jett, where he will obsessively work on weaker facets of his game, and improve to the point of being CPOY his senior season as well.
His pg play is a little different than most- he learned the small guard play where he likes doing little needle slip passes, while Jett liked getting a shoulder past his opponent and going straight to the hole. Mitchell liked being physical and shouldering smaller or weaker guards off him, and passing over and around defenders. Perry played PF in high school at Marshall, so he loved playing near the paint, and laying his patented spin move on guards in the paint.

One possible negative about Collins establishing himself as a 3pt threat...as he gets defended at the arc, his open driving lanes change radically, from doing arc drives with a screen and dish, to getting his shoulder past and driving the lanes, where he was markedly less successful frosh year.

 

In the 18-19 season, our defense was great, 40th in the nation, but our offense was a clogged toilet. That was with Bess and Isabell, and it ranked 214th. This year the defense ended up roughly the same, and the offense jumped to 111th. That's all Perkins and Collins. I believe he'll shoot better next year, esp. from the FT line, and he'll turn the ball over less frequently. But the 19-20 Bills team was much better than the 2019 team, and that was due to offensive efficiency. 

[Reinert310]

17 minutes ago, Crewsorlose said:

In the 18-19 season, our defense was great, 40th in the nation, but our offense was a clogged toilet. That was with Bess and Isabell, and it ranked 214th. This year the defense ended up roughly the same, and the offense jumped to 111th. That's all Perkins and Collins. I believe he'll shoot better next year, esp. from the FT line, and he'll turn the ball over less frequently. But the 19-20 Bills team was much better than the 2019 team, and that was due to offensive efficiency. 

Keep in mind, Yuri’s hands/wrists weren’t 100% for most of the year either. Now add in Jimerson and Thatch (Ford was expecting Thatch to be a leading scorer last year), plus a 40+% 3-point shooter in Lorentsson, Hargrove, Jacobs, Strickland, plus J-Good and Has getting their double-double every night, we’re gonna have plenty of guys who could go for 20 on any given night. I would just like Yuri not to pass up wide open looks when he catches a pass in rhythm. I LOVE that he passes up good shots for great ones, but he has a good looking jumper. If you’re wide open and catch it in rhythm, shoot the dang ball, Yuri! Lol. 

[Clock_Tower]

1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

Clock, I agree with you in that  I hope one of the three open schollies next year would be filled with a 6’2” to 6’5” scoring PG, on my dream list. Also on the list would be a rim defender with major hops, and an agile PF.

I think Collins will follow a development similar to Jett, where he will obsessively work on weaker facets of his game, and improve to the point of being CPOY his senior season as well.
His pg play is a little different than most- he learned the small guard play where he likes doing little needle slip passes, while Jett liked getting a shoulder past his opponent and going straight to the hole. Mitchell liked being physical and shouldering smaller or weaker guards off him, and passing over and around defenders. Perry played PF in high school at Marshall, so he loved playing near the paint, and laying his patented spin move on guards in the paint.

One possible negative about Collins establishing himself as a 3pt threat...as he gets defended at the arc, his open driving lanes change radically, from doing arc drives with a screen and dish, to getting his shoulder past and driving the lanes, where he was markedly less successful frosh year.

 

Wow.   6'2" TO 6'5" scoring PG?   Seem like we would need to be out Duke, Kentucky and Kansas to land such as player.   I am good with a solid, promising PG at most any size   Under 6' is still a risk - but with the right skills, it can work.

And yes, Yuri will certainly improve over the next 3 years - and it will be fun to watch.   The truly amazing thing has been how smooth the offense clicked - despite the similarities of our personnel.   We lost our shooters to S2 and had to improvise.  We ended up with significant yet overlapping talent.   Due to installation of strong defense, unselfish play and relentless effort -- bully ball was born.  Reliance upon bully ball was to ease last year with improved talent, better spacing and more diverse skills - but then came the losses of Thatch and Jimerson.   Yuri's greatest strength was to weave the remaining parts together to hide our overlapping skills -- and it worked.   Perkins, though, had a lot to do with it as well.   And next year, we should be even more diverse.   I like the perimeter shooting of Jimerson, Perkins, Jacobs and Lorentsson.  I like the midrange shot of Linssen. I like the depth and FT shooting of the new guys.  I like the midrange game of Perkins. As Yuri himself improves, his job actually get easier to weave the parts together.  Cannot wait for 2021

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

Clock, I agree with you in that  I hope one of the three open schollies next year would be filled with a 6’2” to 6’5” scoring PG, on my dream list. Also on the list would be a rim defender with major hops, and an agile PF.

I think Collins will follow a development similar to Jett, where he will obsessively work on weaker facets of his game, and improve to the point of being CPOY his senior season as well.
His pg play is a little different than most- he learned the small guard play where he likes doing little needle slip passes, while Jett liked getting a shoulder past his opponent and going straight to the hole. Mitchell liked being physical and shouldering smaller or weaker guards off him, and passing over and around defenders. Perry played PF in high school at Marshall, so he loved playing near the paint, and laying his patented spin move on guards in the paint.

One possible negative about Collins establishing himself as a 3pt threat...as he gets defended at the arc, his open driving lanes change radically, from doing arc drives with a screen and dish, to getting his shoulder past and driving the lanes, where he was markedly less successful frosh year.

 

The top local prospects in 2021 include a 6'6 combo guard, a 6'5 swingman and two athletic project bigs who defend the rim.  We've got a shot at checking off two of the players on your dream list without leaving the metro area.

[ACE]

Yuri can easily get to about 7 ppg - hit a few more free throws, which I think he will with healthy wrists, and finish at the rim a bit more - which I think will happen with a little more experience. I would also like to see him take one more 3-attempt per game, which still would not be that big of a number on the season. One, I think he can make them, two, it will create even more space for JG and HF. Even if he misses the 3 attempts - there is a good chance JG and HF will go grab the rebound anyway and create offense that way. Sometimes our best offense is a missed initial shot.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

3 minutes ago, ACE said:

Yuri can easily get to about 7 ppg - hit a few more free throws, which I think he will with healthy wrists, and finish at the rim a bit more - which I think will happen with a little more experience. I would also like to see him take one more 3-attempt per game, which still would not be that big of a number on the season. One, I think he can make them, two, it will create even more space for JG and HF. Even if he misses the 3 attempts - there is a good chance JG and HF will go grab the rebound anyway and create offense that way. Sometimes our best offense is a missed initial shot.

This. I was surprised to see his 3pt% was 37%. Granted he only averaged 1 3pt attempt per game but I wouldn't mind a few more each game.

[Reinert310]

2 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

This. I was surprised to see his 3pt% was 37%. Granted he only averaged 1 3pt attempt per game but I wouldn't mind a few more each game.

Agreed. And he also shot it better as the year went on. During our run to end the season, it seemed like once a game, he would bury a big 3 late in the shot clock. He has a smooth stroke. I’d love to see him use it a little more and give us another shooting threat, even if he isn’t gonna be a volume shooter.

[slufan13]

A full season of Jimerson and Perkins on the floor will clear the paint significantly for Goodwin and French. Add in Collins' passing and vision and I think you have dynamic (but small) lineup. And by dynamic, I mean like a lineup that could go to the Final Four. 

[wgstl]

10 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

Agreed. And he also shot it better as the year went on. During our run to end the season, it seemed like once a game, he would bury a big 3 late in the shot clock. He has a smooth stroke. I’d love to see him use it a little more and give us another shooting threat, even if he isn’t gonna be a volume shooter.

first 8 games he shot 30% - last 10 games he shot 50%

[Quality Is Job 1]

Keep in mind that Collins (and everyone, for that matter) was just getting acclimated to the longer 3-point distance in 2019-20.

[billikenblue]

Yuri is the straw that stirs the drink. Go back and watch the season.... without him we may have won 18 games. Had some turnover issues as he was learning but shot well enough over the last half of the season to overcome people laying off. Handles the ball so well and has such great court vision that defenses still play him tight....no matter how many shots he takes.  

[slufanskip]

The only thing I want Yuri to do is not have those moments when he seems to relax and play with less intensity causing him to make a lazy pass. I want him to continue to push the envelope with his passing, even knowing that it will occasionally result in a turnover. I don't care if he has 3 t/o's a game if he can get his assists above 7.  I'd bet his scoring will increase. Just don't make the careless turnover, other than that just be Yuri. 

[Cowboy]

38 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

The only thing I want Yuri to do is not have those moments when he seems to relax and play with less intensity causing him to make a lazy pass. I want him to continue to push the envelope with his passing, even knowing that it will occasionally result in a turnover. I don't care if he has 3 t/o's a game if he can get his assists above 7.  I'd bet his scoring will increase. Just don't make the careless turnover, other than that just be Yuri. 

-skip is on with this, the t/o that almost sent me to the ER was the 10 second violation against no pressure, but that was one play and he made so many great ones, I am very happy Yuri is a Billiken

[Aquinas]

I think it is better to look at Yuri's scoring on a play by play basis. For example,  Yuri has the ball at the top of the key, is it better for him to take the shot or pass to an open Perkins, Jimerson or French or a cutting Goodwin or Hargrove.  The percentages are generally better for a pass.  It really doesn't matter what Yuri averages as long as the highest percentage shot is taken so the team average improves. 

Yuri has already shown great clock awareness, and will put up a good 3, before letting the clock expire. Yuri basically gives some of his shooting opportunities to other players, lowering his scoring totals, while inflating those around him. Yuri is all about exploiting the best shot opportunity on every possession.