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Recruiting - 2020 Class (Optimal Vision Class)


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3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Why would we want a 5’ 10” three point shooter (didn’t work so well w Weaver) when we already have 6’5” Jimerson, 6’5” Hargrove, 6’6” Perkins, 6’2” Jacobs and now 6’8” Lorentsson?   
 We need a big in 2020 and a PG in 2021 when Yuri is a JR. 

Just so happens those are the number one priorities in 2021.  It's a lot easier to recruit quality at those positions when you have minutes to offer.

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3 hours ago, Reinert310 said:

Again, I’m not sure why people are so down on Diarra. Everyone knows he had an injury. If you were excited about him when he signed, you should be just as excited about him now. If you weren’t excited about him when he signed, ok, nothing has happened to change your opinion. I get that. I’m not going to go back and look up everyone’s opinion of him when committed. But to write a kid off because he didn’t play much his freshman year, when he came in with a knee injury, just seems kinda dumb to me.

Not down Diarra though I am down on Hankton.   Just like a NFL free agent compensation in later years, Coach Ford should send him to Western KY or Northern KY as compensation for us acquiring Tay Weaver.  Diara may turn into something.  Because of his injury, I was excited for his signing (though not as much as Yuri, Jimerson and Hargrove), I figured either he or Bell would turn out good (50-50), that Diara was likely a project b/c of his injury and b/c of his size, and that we won't see real production from him until his JR year.   I want to keep Diarra - though I am not counting upon him NEXT year.

 

3 hours ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

stating the obvious, there aren't many quality big men available.....one thing that is obvious to me. is that Ford likes player who can be elite at doing at least 1 thing.....Russell, may have his deficiencies, but he is an elite shooter, described by Frank Cusumano as the best in the state, by far.....skill plays, yet is continually overlooked by many....if he can hit 40+ percent of his 3's, he would be a very valuable asset.....and lastly, Weaver was a poor ball handler, Russell is apparently pretty good at handling and distributing the ball, and doesn't seem to have a problem being a complimentary player....

So not many quality big men available... and we just play 5 guards?  We now have playing time to offer -- French will be gone next year and Bell is a true center .  But 2 guys playing significant minutes measuring 5'!0" ?  Bully ball not only works b/c our guys are not good perimeter shooters but b/c they are big/strong - 6'4" Goodwin, 6'6" Perkins, 6'7" French, 6'3" Thatch, 6''5" Hargrove, 6'2" Jacobs.    We already have a 40%+ shooter from 3 point (Jimerson) who is 6'5", Perkins will shoot in upper 30% next year from three, Hargrove will be groomed into a 3 point shooter, I would rather go with 6'8" outside shooter in Lorentsson and I don't care as much about replacing Weaver.   Already done.   Weaver wouldn't play much next year if he had another year.  If Russell wants to go prep school and then come in next year with Kern, then I am all over that.  Might be good for him too - not be in Yuri's shadow for 3 years.  if Ford believes Diarra is the answer, then let's take Russell and redshirt him.

 

3 hours ago, ACE said:

Fats Russell is 5-10, 160 lbs, similar to this Russell. I'm not suggesting this kid is as good as Fats, but a kid that size can certainly have some success in the A-10.  Hell, that size isn't much smaller than Kwamain. Also, Gilyard at 5-9 is one of the better players in the league.

Yes.  We already have Yuri.   How many 5'10" guys do we want?   And in back to back classes?  If anyone thinks Russell will be a better PG than Yuri and will put Yuri on the bench, then I will take Russell.   Otherwise, no thanks.

 

1 hour ago, dennis_w said:

The big we want might already be on the roster. Diarra is a mystery man as little as he played and as little as he was talked about. He is one large man and maybe he is the guy Ford wants and already has

Yes.  I/we hope so.  But if he have another scholarship available, do we save it like Soderberg would do?

 

2 hours ago, Pistol said:

You and me both.

The Recruiting Lists got a full update yesterday and this morning. That's just known names; I'm doing a little more research later to see if there's anything new floating out there.

Me too.  Thanks for all your updates.

 

1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

Outside of Collins, what guard would you want bringing the ball up court 80% of gametime? 

We need a big thumper bad, but we also need a guard who can backfill Collins’ ballhandling, and one who can fill in at 40% from 3 pt land offsets Collins main criticism - scoring.

Again, there would be a big drop off by using Goodwin or Jacobs 80% of the time, and not directing only at you, but why is no one answering my question?   What is the plan if French goes down?  Bell play 80% with 4 guards?  No center back up other than Hargrove/Perkins and Diarra?  Again, should we play next year without Yuri, we would still be set at PG the next 2 years - his JR and SR year.  Should we play without French next year, then what?   Still would need to replace him the following year.   

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14 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

Testing the waters as in considering declaring for the draft?

it means he'll get a NBA grade, ie parts of his game he should work on.  I think every player who is at least pretty good should get this done. 

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28 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Is this official?

French needs to test the waters.   It needs to register upon him.  We know already what he will be told.   Develop a mid range game, improve your dribbling and learn how to make a FT.   Shaq was a poor FT shooter but he dominated the NBA game as a 7' power center at nearly 400 lbs.  NBA is not interested in a 6'7" forward who cannot shoot beyond 5 feet, and if fouled, will throw up the worst looking FTs at a clip of 1/3.

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Clock, I totally agree with you. I would not be surprised that we have two openings, either at the strange end of the semester, or before the unknown start of fall semester.

Even if we don’t, Ford still has to aggressively recruit to cover if we do have openings. He also has to do a first committed, first accepted on these “provisional” commitments, IMO, if they meet either projected need.

Ford and company do the ratchet down method of recruiting continuously, so this isn’t a big change from their normal recruiting style. The only “absolute” gets that I project during Fords tenure are French and Goodwin...and he got them!

Perkins became an APB recruit, Collins and Thatch probably were both A rated recruits in their draft book as well.

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29 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

French needs to test the waters.   It needs to register upon him.  We know already what he will be told.   Develop a mid range game, improve your dribbling and learn how to make a FT.   Shaq was a poor FT shooter but he dominated the NBA game as a 7' power center at nearly 400 lbs.  NBA is not interested in a 6'7" forward who cannot shoot beyond 5 feet, and if fouled, will throw up the worst looking FTs at a clip of 1/3.

French is absolutely elite on the defensive end. Maybe he can find a  niche, others have found an nba roster with such talents

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33 minutes ago, wgstl said:

it means he'll get a NBA grade, ie parts of his game he should work on.  I think every player who is at least pretty good should get this done. 

Agree--seems like there is zero downside to doing this with the recent-ish rule changes.

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2 hours ago, Sheltiedave said:

Weaver was a perfect get as a end of the grad transfer pipeline puzzle piece.

He was a 3 pt shooter guard who was a known element to Ford. Energy, known commodity, hardworking, and as a guard with solid but limited skill set, he was the perfect practice player, and a great yardstick for all our new guards to be measured against.

Outside of Collins, what guard would you want bringing the ball up court 80% of gametime? 
We need a big thumper bad, but we also need a guard who can backfill Collins’ ballhandling, and one who can fill in at 40% from 3 pt land offsets Collins main criticism - scoring.

Collins will be a sophomore next year and Jacobs will be a junior. I am assuming Jacobs will improve in the coming seasons. He can bring the ball in and spell Collins when needed. We have time for finding a replacement for Collins, and we do not want to lose Jacobs for next year. Bigs are harder to find, particularly bigs capable of replacing French. Bell will continue improving and is likely  to get to the point where he can take over French's role. He will not be French but he will do. I do not know what Diarra can or cannot do, but sooner or later we will  find out, he may become very capable as a center and may be able to rebound well and swat balls out, who knows? I do not think Hankton can do enough to take the big spot away  from Bell, and perhaps not from Diarra either. I have very low expectations regarding Hankton. So, we are neither here nor there in terms of bigs but I think we will be fine for ball handling next year. We will see.

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9 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Collins will be a sophomore next year and Jacobs will be a junior. I am assuming Jacobs will improve in the coming seasons. He can bring the ball in and spell Collins when needed. We have time for finding a replacement for Collins, and we do not want to lose Jacobs for next year. Bigs are harder to find, particularly bigs capable of replacing French. Bell will continue improving and is likely  to get to the point where he can take over French's role. He will not be French but he will do. I do not know what Diarra can or cannot do, but sooner or later we will  find out, he may become very capable as a center and may be able to rebound well and swat balls out, who knows? I do not think Hankton can do enough to take the big spot away  from Bell, and perhaps not from Diarra either. I have very low expectations regarding Hankton. So, we are neither here nor there in terms of bigs but I think we will be fine for ball handling next year. We will see.

If russell is indeed the best shooter in the state, then you want that elite skill. cant have enough shooters. if he can handle the ball then he can also relieve collins at the point. Absolutely need front court depth, maybe diarra and to a lesser extent hargrove can help , he can defend the rim and with a bit more muscle might be a  a 3-4 guy

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I think it's a good thing if Has tests the NBA waters. As someone said, let the pros tell him what he needs to work on to get to the next level. No matter what anyone says I can't believe French has ever worked on a 10-15 ft jumper with any kind of regularity. Being told by an NBA scout he needs this to have a shot might be the kick in the butt he needs to get working on it. Then again, he could be a Rodman type in the NBA,  but I think the pro game has passed that type of player by. They want their bigs to be shooters as well. 

I hope Perkins doesn't test the waters. He just might get very high marks and decide to sign up. Although, I think they'd tell him he's got to bulk up a little more. 

If JGood tests they're going to tell him you need to demonstrate a good 3 point shot. Yes, you're a Marcus Smart type, but Smart's a pretty good shooter. You've got some work to do. 

As for Russell, aren't we putting the cart before the horse? We don't have any open scholies that I'm aware of. I know everyone thinks Hankton will check out, either by choice or strong recommendation. If he does go, then I've got no problem with offering Russell and a French type big, if there is one out there. If Houston had committed the question would have been answered. Not sure if that ship has sailed because of the Prep route he took. Is this Kern kid a PF type? 

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Kern is 6’6”, 160 lb beanpole at the beginning of the season. During the season, he had three of the best five blocks I saw, including a stuff of 7” Bradford(Mehlville) on a soft jumper lean from 4ft in the paint.

Hargrove is a better PF candidate, as he is a bigger frame and can skywalk, but Kern has some of the fastest hops I have seen. He has added some muscle.

They both would be examples akin to the guards that Villanova played during their spectacular four out, one in ball of the past decade. Everyone had hops, toughness, and was very agile, and everyone had enough handle to drive to the hoop.

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5 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Aaron Hines saved our skin too but I would not offer a scholarship now to his clone.

Being a good backup contributor?  Yes, the scholarship to Weaver  did work. Glad we had him this year. But stretching the defense and keeping the defense honest? It did not work. Lanky guards could sag off  Weaver, pack the lane and then jump out and guard/block the shot of 5’10” Weaver as opposed to a taller 6’5” shooter. 
And defensively, Weaver sure got better, and I believe would be far better now had he been coached by Ford and played for us his prior 3 years,  but defense and his size/strength was an issue. So if a 5’10” Senior GT transfer gets pushed around, why would we expect 5’10” freshman to be any different?  
Yuri is good for 32 mpg and I would prefer a non-freshman handling the other 8 minutes. 
Now, if Sophomore Yuri (God forbid) were to break a bone in his foot and be out for the year, it would be a big blow and a replacement would be needed.  Would Russell be the answer as opposed to anyone else?  Not sure. We would at least have other options. 
But what if French (God forbid) were to break a bone in his foot,  who would his replacement be?  My point:  we need a big and I am not sure Hankton and Diara are the answer and not sure Bell can play 35 mpg, not foul out and we rely upon Hargrove to be our big man in the middle.  And even if no injuries, we need to replace French as he will be a Senior. 

There's room for Russell and a big.  We have two guys on the roster that barely played last year.  The staff could easily turn those spots into Russell and big TBD, if they so chose.  

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I have no information that this is correct or reflects the way it happened, but I think Donte Houston was getting ready to come to SLU and was told to spend a year at a prep school. I do not know this to be true, once more. IF this is the case, then no, they are not showing an open door to anyone in the team at this time.

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8 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I have no information that this is correct or reflects the way it happened, but I think Donte Houston was getting ready to come to SLU and was told to spend a year at a prep school. I do not know this to be true, once more. IF this is the case, then no, they are not showing an open door to anyone in the team at this time.

So just a wild guess? 

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8 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I have no information that this is correct or reflects the way it happened, but I think Donte Houston was getting ready to come to SLU and was told to spend a year at a prep school. I do not know this to be true, once more. IF this is the case, then no, they are not showing an open door to anyone in the team at this time.

I doubt it.  He never even visited here.

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1 hour ago, Sheltiedave said:

Clock, I totally agree with you. I would not be surprised that we have two openings, either at the strange end of the semester, or before the unknown start of fall semester.

Even if we don’t, Ford still has to aggressively recruit to cover if we do have openings. He also has to do a first committed, first accepted on these “provisional” commitments, IMO, if they meet either projected need.

Ford and company do the ratchet down method of recruiting continuously, so this isn’t a big change from their normal recruiting style. The only “absolute” gets that I project during Fords tenure are French and Goodwin...and he got them!

Perkins became an APB recruit, Collins and Thatch probably were both A rated recruits in their draft book as well.

What is an APG recruit?

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49 minutes ago, slu72 said:

I think it's a good thing if Has tests the NBA waters. As someone said, let the pros tell him what he needs to work on to get to the next level. No matter what anyone says I can't believe French has ever worked on a 10-15 ft jumper with any kind of regularity. Being told by an NBA scout he needs this to have a shot might be the kick in the butt he needs to get working on it. Then again, he could be a Rodman type in the NBA,  but I think the pro game has passed that type of player by. They want their bigs to be shooters as well. 

I hope Perkins doesn't test the waters. He just might get very high marks and decide to sign up. Although, I think they'd tell him he's got to bulk up a little more. 

If JGood tests they're going to tell him you need to demonstrate a good 3 point shot. Yes, you're a Marcus Smart type, but Smart's a pretty good shooter. You've got some work to do. 

As for Russell, aren't we putting the cart before the horse? We don't have any open scholies that I'm aware of. I know everyone thinks Hankton will check out, either by choice or strong recommendation. If he does go, then I've got no problem with offering Russell and a French type big, if there is one out there. If Houston had committed the question would have been answered. Not sure if that ship has sailed because of the Prep route he took. Is this Kern kid a PF type? 

72, let me preface this by saying, you’re not wrong. I’m not sure I believe Has can develop a reliable 10-15 footer either. But I would argue that it might be easier for him to shoot a jumper right now than free throws. It’s so obvious, whatever is wrong with his free throw stroke, is in his head. It’s a total Rick Ankiel scenario. Maybe he doesn’t make 8 outta 10 in practice like Ford says, but you can see the difference between warm-ups and game action. It’s night and day. Shooting a 12-foot jumper, there’s no time to think about whether you’re using your legs enough. You just shoot. I think that could be to his advantage. Just a thought.

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8 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

An APB recruit is someone you wanted, but he commits elsewhere. When he decommits, you do an all points bulletin full court press on him.

It worked with Perkins.

we've been told multiple times by different people here hardly anyone else recruited javon.   i think the next best program was louisiana monroe?   

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