Clock_Tower Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 On 8/4/2019 at 8:20 PM, RiseAndGrind said: That didn’t happen. Travis Ford is literally recruiting at the highest levels in SLU history. He’s getting local kids. He didn’t call Tony Irons to ask why SLU wasn’t in Fletcher’s list. I know that’s maybe what your Vashon connections told you, but SLU has been getting played by Vashon spin for decades. Other than the Rich Grawer - Floyd Irons pipeline of Vashon to SLU which landed Anthony Bonner, Ramone Trice, Anthony Jones and I believe Melvin Robinson back in the day and then Dwayne Polk years, how many Vashon guys have academically qualified for D1 NCAA and then gone on and done something noteworthy at college - I don't believe all that many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach314 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said: Other than the Rich Grawer - Floyd Irons pipeline of Vashon to SLU which landed Anthony Bonner, Ramone Trice, Anthony Jones and I believe Melvin Robinson back in the day and then Dwayne Polk years, how many Vashon guys have academically qualified for D1 NCAA and then gone on and done something noteworthy at college - I don't believe all that many. This will be Coach Irons fifth year at Vashon. In that same span of time, are there a lot of local high school programs that you know of that are producing a large number of D1 players doing something noteworthy in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 11 hours ago, Coach314 said: This will be Coach Irons fifth year at Vashon. In that same span of time, are there a lot of local high school programs that you know of that are producing a large number of D1 players doing something noteworthy in college. Believe you missed my point. SLU will be just fine without any Tony Irons recruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 12 hours ago, Coach314 said: This will be Coach Irons fifth year at Vashon. In that same span of time, are there a lot of local high school programs that you know of that are producing a large number of D1 players doing something noteworthy in college. Floyd Iron was at Vashon 33 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said: Believe you missed my point. SLU will be just fine without any Tony Irons recruits. We will but Coach Ford is doing the right thing by offering every high major caliber prospect from Vashon. One day a kid will come along that values staying home so much that he breaks the Vashon tradition and becomes a Billiken. That will open the door for future Wolverine recruits to take us seriously. Salesmen, and that's what recruiters are, don't take rejection personally. We're just looking for the one kid who can change the narrative. In the long term, expanding the local recruiting base will make Coach Ford's job that much easier. VeniceMenace, Adman, Billiken Rich and 3 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach314 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 55 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said: Believe you missed my point. SLU will be just fine without any Tony Irons recruits. I don't disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 -do all the Vashon players live in the district now or are some still commuting from Alton or other places? brianstl likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach314 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, courtside said: Floyd Iron was at Vashon 33 years. I know. Floyd Irons doesn't have any kids with SLU offers currently. Billiken Rich likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach314 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Cowboy said: -do all the Vashon players live in the district now or are some still commuting from Alton or other places? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Vashon reminds me of some of the Chicago Public League schools when it comes to UIUC and the Chicago based D1. They expect them to take the fringe recruits, they expect job offers when there is a head coach opening, they expect the programs to kiss their ring for some unknown reason. Vashon has produced zip that would qualify as a game changing recruit in over 30 years and that guy was a star at SLU and is their all time best player. The rest of the guys have been a majority low major types that fill up roster spots at the OVC and Summit type programs. Obviously their younger guys now seem to be on a better arc, but so have a lot of their guys in the past. Meanwhile schools all around produce a higher quality player on a more consistent basis without the baggage associated with the Irons's. Belleville schools, Chaminade, East St Louis even has a better track record. Not sure where Vashon gets this self inflated sense of worth in the overall basketball community from a recruiting standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 58 minutes ago, Coach314 said: I know. Floyd Irons doesn't have any kids with SLU offers currently. The discussion included history. Historically, what have been those results over the years. That poster even mentioned the father’s name. I wasn’t talking about just the 5 years. Hopefully Vashon (and many other schools) can and will produce high major talent that will help SLU’s program moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Sean Tunstall >>> Bonner. Bonner blew up in college, while Tunstall was the man from his sophomore year of hs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said: Sean Tunstall >>> Bonner. Bonner blew up in college, while Tunstall was the man from his sophomore year of hs. I guess I'm saying more from an impact at the college/NBA level. Irons could put together a great HS team but who has come out of there and starred at the NCAA level since Bonner? I honestly don't know the exact answer, but can't think of any better than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 14 hours ago, Coach314 said: This will be Coach Irons fifth year at Vashon. In that same span of time, are there a lot of local high school programs that you know of that are producing a large number of D1 players doing something noteworthy in college. Without thinking too much, yes, I would say that Chaminade has produced some pretty good talent in Lee, Beal and Tatum. I would also say that CBC has had some top shelf guys as well. Admittedly, I am going back more than 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said: We will but Coach Ford is doing the right thing by offering every high major caliber prospect from Vashon. One day a kid will come along that values staying home so much that he breaks the Vashon tradition and becomes a Billiken. That will open the door for future Wolverine recruits to take us seriously. Salesmen, and that's what recruiters are, don't take rejection personally. We're just looking for the one kid who can change the narrative. In the long term, expanding the local recruiting base will make Coach Ford's job that much easier. High school and AAU coaching egos can be very, very difficult. As is common, one usually finds that it is the adults who ruin things for the kids. But agree. Keep taking the high road and, as not unexpected but certainly true, winning solves nearly all problems and if SLU continues to win, then all kids will line up for SLU scholarships regardless of what their coaches say. Billiken Rich likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said: Without thinking too much, yes, I would say that Chaminade has produced some pretty good talent in Lee, Beal and Tatum. I would also say that CBC has had some top shelf guys as well. Admittedly, I am going back more than 5 years. Yeah, if we are keeping it to the recent past and the past 15 years I have to imagine Chaminade has produced the best talent with Lee, Beal, Tatum, Cook, Lewis, and Hellems. We would need a Vashon grad to fill in their alums who have played in college, but not many who really had big careers in college that I am finding (again, the past 15 years). Doing some quick research (not all of these guys played at these schools for four seasons) I am finding the following guys: Jimmy McKinney (Mizzou), Lorenzo Gordon (Illinois State), Dwayne Polk (SLU), Johnny Hill (SEMO), Bobby Hill (Illinois State), James Washington (Middle Tennessee), Leon Powell (SEMO), Levi Stockard (Kansas State), Daniel Ferris (Central Missouri), Joe Reece (Old Dominion), Mario McKinney (Mizzou), and now Cam'Ron Fletcher (committed to Kentucky). Pistol and CBFan like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 55 minutes ago, JMM28 said: Vashon reminds me of some of the Chicago Public League schools when it comes to UIUC and the Chicago based D1. They expect them to take the fringe recruits, they expect job offers when there is a head coach opening, they expect the programs to kiss their ring for some unknown reason. Vashon has produced zip that would qualify as a game changing recruit in over 30 years and that guy was a star at SLU and is their all time best player. The rest of the guys have been a majority low major types that fill up roster spots at the OVC and Summit type programs. Obviously their younger guys now seem to be on a better arc, but so have a lot of their guys in the past. Meanwhile schools all around produce a higher quality player on a more consistent basis without the baggage associated with the Irons's. Belleville schools, Chaminade, East St Louis even has a better track record. Not sure where Vashon gets this self inflated sense of worth in the overall basketball community from a recruiting standpoint. Vashon had 7 kids with D-I offers last season, and I don't think any other local program came close. Regardless of how we feel about them because of any current or former coaches' mostly unjustified attitudes about SLU, that's nothing to sniff at. The current staff is doing what it needs to do regarding Vashon. SLU coaches aren't going to walk in there and get a hero's welcome. We've offered their top D-I kids - McKinney, Fletcher, Kern, and even Clark (I can't imagine that's a fresh, committable offer today, but still) - and we show up there for big games and open gym. None of us know how frequently our coaches communicate with any Vashon kids but it was clear that McKinney and Fletcher weren't coming here and we didn't expend big resources pursuing them. I'm interested to see what happens with Kern. We were the first ones to offer. The other point I'll make is that the HS coach isn't always enough to make or break a college program for a kid. I've seen plenty of recruits go against a HS coach's wishes or recommendations. They're just one part of a recruit's network, along with the AAU program, his family, and so forth. So SLU's staff will continue to work Vashon, as they should, and one of these days we'll see a breakthrough. The main point I agree with you on is that the lower-level D-I guys coming out of Vashon are not guys we can afford to pursue, only to have them get insignificant minutes and become disgruntled. That doesn't help anyone. CBFan, Zink, 3star_recruit and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Coach314 said: -I don't know what this represents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Face plant, cowboy, face plant. kinda Lika doink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach314 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 1 hour ago, JMM28 said: Vashon reminds me of some of the Chicago Public League schools when it comes to UIUC and the Chicago based D1. They expect them to take the fringe recruits, they expect job offers when there is a head coach opening, they expect the programs to kiss their ring for some unknown reason. Vashon has produced zip that would qualify as a game changing recruit in over 30 years and that guy was a star at SLU and is their all time best player. The rest of the guys have been a majority low major types that fill up roster spots at the OVC and Summit type programs. Obviously their younger guys now seem to be on a better arc, but so have a lot of their guys in the past. Meanwhile schools all around produce a higher quality player on a more consistent basis without the baggage associated with the Irons's. Belleville schools, Chaminade, East St Louis even has a better track record. Not sure where Vashon gets this self inflated sense of worth in the overall basketball community from a recruiting standpoint. Can you share your individual experience with Vashon's coaching staff under Coach Tony Irons that has given you inside knowledge into the program to make the comments you made in your first paragraph? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Kalkbrenner is trying out different teams looks on twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, Coach314 said: Can you share your individual experience with Vashon's coaching staff under Coach Tony Irons that has given you inside knowledge into the program to make the comments you made in your first paragraph? Thanks in advance. Ok Floyd. It’s ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I will agree that I do not know much if anything about the art of recruiting. However I believe that treating coaches and players with respect and making offers only when we think they are good offers (for SLU) is not a bad approach, even with coaches that have a long tradition of ignoring SLU. Coach314 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach314 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 1 hour ago, RiseAndGrind said: Ok Floyd. It’s ok. It's James Funny post tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said: Kalkbrenner is trying out different teams looks on twitter. He visited Cincinnati, Ohio St. this past weekend. He is visiting Purdue and Northwestern this week and then he is off to an official visit to Stanford after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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