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kshoe

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5 minutes ago, Bills_06 said:

That doesn't make sense to me though because why would they want that?  It would make more sense for them to just say no to SLU.  If you let SLU in, they should want SLU to be successful because that helps everybody in the conference.  An automatic W is great until it doesn't do anything to help you get into the tournament and could hurt if you lose.  Plus it brings down the entire conference NET or RPI.  That just seems like a lose lose to both SLU and the Big East.  I get initially being a junior because they get the additional money but not to commit to a length of time just doesn't make sense to me.  

We should make them want us and a lot of that in my mind is up to Dr. P and especially somebody like Dr. Chaifetz showing that they are willing and have put money towards the athletics currently to do what it takes to be successful.  That is part of the junior status, we would have to be able to show we have money to survive those 5 years or whatever and still be competitive and then we can get our share of the revenue.  

the only way to "make them want us" is to be successful like creighton and butler were prior to being asked.   long term high success.  do that first then it will happen.  

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14 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I love all the Dayton people talking about how many fans they draw.  That doesn't matter to programs in a potential new conference.  Dayton's attendance will have zero impact on their attractiveness as a Big East program.  Road teams in college basketball don't get a percentage of the gate in conference games.  The money that is generated by people buying Dayton tickets all stays with Dayton.  What matters is how attractive your media market is to advertisers, the number of potential students in your market, how many potential recruits your market produces, the overall state of a school's athletic program/facilities and the biggest thing is how the conference views a program's potential to generate revenue for other conference members (In the Big East that comes down to how often the conference thinks you can make it to the NCAA basketball tournament).

-I disagree, the way their fans travel dwarfs us and would be to SVU's benefit, your other points I agree are also in the mix

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Like everything else - it is either a buyers or sellers market.  If the BE has 4 schools wanting to get in and they only want one or two then it would be a sellers market.  Ergo you will have to meet the price or go home. If you are not willing to pony up then just stay home.

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16 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

the only way to "make them want us" is to be successful like creighton and butler were prior to being asked.   long term high success.  do that first then it will happen.  

Bills have as many tournament wins as Creighton in the last 15 years, and we didn't have a chance for an easy conf auto bid like they did all those years...

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1 minute ago, Littlebill said:

Bills have as many tournament wins as Creighton in the last 15 years, and we didn't have a chance for an easy conf auto bid like they did all those years...

i dont know the answer to the next 2 questions, how many years were they selected for the ncaa tourney in those 15 years and what was their overall record?   

my guess is the creighton resume overall is better.   

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41 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I disagree, the way their fans travel dwarfs us and would be to SVU's benefit, your other points I agree are in the mix

The way their fans travel won't have an impact.  X already sells out every conference game.  St Johns sells out Carnesecca for Big East games.  Creighton basically already sells out CenturyLink for every Big East game.  Marquette averaged 15,000 last season for Big East games and their new building only hold 17,500.  Butler basically sells out every Big East game already.  Providence fills up the Dunkin Donut Center already for Big East games. 

The Dayton fans would only have the potential to boost attendance for four teams(Georgetown, Seton Hall, DePaul and Nova) one time a year.  We can even be super generous and say they will bring 4,000 on average to those games and that they will pay $40 a ticket.  That means that the way Dayton fans travel, being super generous, generated a extra $160,000 each for four programs.  That is peanuts in the Big East.

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I respect Dayton as a program, even for as annoying as their fans are, don't get me wrong, they support their hoops and run an admirable program. 

But Dayton brings nothing, NOTHING, to the table for the Big East: No new market, no flashy institution (SLU is a better, wealthier academic institution in every regard), good, not great basketball history. Furthermore, there is zero way that x ever let's them get in. 

Also, the "fan support" argument loses all water because the Big East would be in area's that are SLU alumni strongholds. Are two largest alumni organizations are based in Chicago and New York... You don't think they're going to show up for games? 

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18 minutes ago, brianstl said:

The Dayton fans would only have the potential to boost attendance for four teams(Georgetown, Seton Hall, DePaul and Nova) one time a year.  We can even be super generous and say they will bring 4,000 on average to those games and that they will pay $40 a ticket.  That means that the way Dayton fans travel, being super generous, generated a extra $160,000 each for four programs.  That is peanuts in the Big East.

If Dayton, or anyone, took 4000 to DePaul, they would have a 2 to 1 fan ratio in favor of the visitors.  DePaul just doesn't cut it in Chicago.  This is an interesting article from Feb 2018 about DePaul's attendance. Increasing attendance from 2000 to 6000 would be huge for DePaul.

https://depauliaonline.com/33219/sports/that-empty-feeling-despite-move-to-city-mens-basketball-attendance-remains-low/

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Just reading the tea leaves.   FP has made inroads with Georgetown President.  Two years ago he came for private discussions with faculty at SLU, and BOT.  We have a home and home with Butler, this year SH,   did anyone find it interesting how aggressive the promotion of the Butler game was compared to OSU.  Perhaps that is due to finals week, perhaps not....if the sun rises tomorrow, then we have a chance;)

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5 minutes ago, Basketbill said:

Just reading the tea leaves.   FP has made inroads with Georgetown President.  Two years ago he came for private discussions with faculty at SLU, and BOT.  We have a home and home with Butler, this year SH,   did anyone find it interesting how aggressive the promotion of the Butler game was compared to OSU.  Perhaps that is due to finals week, perhaps not....if the sun rises tomorrow, then we have a chance;)

damn... that is some seriously blue kool aid.

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2 hours ago, Basketbill said:

Just reading the tea leaves.   FP has made inroads with Georgetown President.  Two years ago he came for private discussions with faculty at SLU, and BOT.  We have a home and home with Butler, this year SH,   did anyone find it interesting how aggressive the promotion of the Butler game was compared to OSU.  Perhaps that is due to finals week, perhaps not....if the sun rises tomorrow, then we have a chance;)

So Fred has actually done something right -stop the presses.  Seriously, if Fred can pull this off won't that leave egg on some faces.

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1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

So Fred has actually done something right -stop the presses.  Seriously, if Fred can pull this off won't that leave egg on some faces.

Freddy has provided a data set large enough to make a reasonable assessment. Any variations are egg free. In Dr C we trust.

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44 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

So Fred has actually done something right -stop the presses.  Seriously, if Fred can pull this off won't that leave egg on some faces.

That would be my face with the egg on it and I would be extremely happy to say I was wrong because I have already done that for the coach Ford hiring so I have experience with being wrong about somebody.

Please Freddy get it done and I will happily say I was wrong and remove the hashtag.

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So much to react to here:

1) Did people actually read the comments Val Ackerman made. Didn't really seem like they are looking to expand anytime soon, just that other schools have been approaching them. Not sure what all the excitement is about.

2) This argument with Roy is kind of silly. First off its all hearsay that the Big East is only offering junior membership status or even offered that the first time around. The 3 teams that were added 5 years ago didn't get junior status so where exactly does this come from other than innuendo and some vague message board talk.

3) That being said, Roy's argument is that the athletic department is cheap and nickels and dimes everything so they shouldn't take a deal that significantly increases revenues if it means those revenues aren't the same as the other 10 members. IT IS STILL MORE MONEY! Of course they should take it.

4) Brian may be right that Dayton isn't a natural fit, but he understates the value that the Big East puts on fans that travel well. The league is obsessed with the tournament in MSG and selling it out. 5,000 traveling Dayton fans would be a welcome addition to that tourney, compared to the 500 we'd struggle to scratch together for that weekend. It's a bigger deal then people think.

 

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30 minutes ago, kshoe said:

4) Brian may be right that Dayton isn't a natural fit, but he understates the value that the Big East puts on fans that travel well. The league is obsessed with the tournament in MSG and selling it out. 5,000 traveling Dayton fans would be a welcome addition to that tourney, compared to the 500 we'd struggle to scratch together for that weekend. It's a bigger deal then people think.

 

They don't need much help at their tourney.  Last year they averaged 18,790 at the tourney.  Three of the five sessions sold out.  MSG holds 20,789.

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I hate the phrase no brainer, but if we get a shot to join the Beast it's a no brainer to join. Figure the 4 schools that are interested are all from the A10. If they depart and we're not one of them what conference choices would we be left with, a sorry looking A10 or the MVC? There is no question the Beast is best for the school, the athletic dept, the city, and most definitely the fans. Think Butler size crowds for every home conference game. Think about recruiting. Think about coaching stability. There is no legit downside. If this is a real possibility my guess is Dr C will manage it and get us in! 

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Schools that might be asking to join the Beast: 

1) VCU

2) RICHMOND

3.) DAVIDSON

4.) DAYTON

5.) SLU

I don't see UConn unless they're sick of big time coming football. And the AAC may be better than the Beast in BB right now. 

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6 hours ago, Cowboy said:

-I disagree, the way their fans travel dwarfs us and would be to SVU's benefit, your other points I agree are also in the mix

Are Dayton fans going to travel to regular season conference games? Probably not. 

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7 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Schools that might be asking to join the Beast: 

1) VCU

2) RICHMOND

3.) DAVIDSON

4.) DAYTON

5.) SLU

I don't see UConn unless they're sick of big time coming football. And the AAC may be better than the Beast in BB right now. 

Wichita St.

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8 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Schools that might be asking to join the Beast: 

1) VCU

2) RICHMOND

3.) DAVIDSON

4.) DAYTON

5.) SLU

I don't see UConn unless they're sick of big time coming football. And the AAC may be better than the Beast in BB right now. 

The Big East is significantly better than the American in basketball even in a down season like this for the Big East.

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Not worried about Dayton getting in over us in the slightest. Dayton, OH vs. St. Louis, MO is not a contest as far as expanding your market is concerned. Xavier already in the fold, Archie bolted, etc., etc. Yea they travel well and show up for games. Good for them, they’re the only show in town 

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