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This is what jumped out at me from the Dayton AD's thoughts:

we’re just relentless and aggressive in our pursuit to position and fight for Dayton basketball, to fight for our students, to fight for our fans.

Ever hear anything like that from any spokesman at SLU?? Yeah, me neither.

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9 minutes ago, brianstl said:

 

 

The the two quoted sections below are what makes me question if the A10 can really be the answer going forward.

 

The bottom part of the conference is killing the A10.  Those programs aren't going to leave the conference and the the track record tells you they won't ever be consistently decent.  So how do you avoid having 4 to 8 games against them every year? 

Therein lies the problem. Here are the A10 schools I think are truly committed to putting together good programs: UD, VCU, Davidson, URI, St. B's, SLU (because of Chaifetz), and UMass (although they've been hurting). The balance of the league seem  content wallowing around in Mediocrity Land. I guess you could make a case that St. Joes wants to return to the top tier  but does little to turn their situation around. I think Duquense is trying but have they made any major commitments to be a better program? Then you have Fordham (who I believe is a sleeping Giant but appears stuck in their comatose state). LaSalle has financial problems. Richmond seems to think Moony is the answer which is kind of strange, since they've got ample funds to do better. I don't know enough about GM to figure out what's up there. GW starts then sputters.

The primary problem w/ the A10 is coaching turnover. An A10 coach has a few good years and he's Shanghied by a P5 school. Just go thru the turnover since the Beast realigned. Smart, Miller, Hurley, Wade. Luckily Davidson's been able to hang on to McKillop. Same for St. B's with Schultz. Our history w/ HC's is horrific. It's almost like we run off the good ones. Spoon and Rick come to mind. Yes, Rick passed, but it was clear once his deal was done he was leaving Dodge.

Since the Beast's realignment in '13 SLU's been to 3 tourneys. 3 out of 6 years is not too shabby. VCU goes every year. UD, I think's been to 3 as well. URI 1, LaSalle 1 ( and had the best finish), St. B's 1, St. Joes 1. I think that covers it. But as the Dayton article states the A10 is on a downward trend that's only going to get rockier. So, what can the conference do about to turn it around? We used to be the 7th best conference in the land, now we're 11. Something's gone terribly wrong. One other thing about the tone of the UD article is UD feels strongly they are next in line if the Beast expands. That came across loud and clear. The AD never even gave a nod that SLU might be a competitor. Appears they are not too worried about XU blocking their path to the big time if the Beast adds one more school. Makes you wonder if they are not way ahead of us in their lobbying efforts with the Beast and have received some kind of assurance that, if they add another, DU's at the top of their list.

Assuming the worst case that VCU bolts to the AAC and DU gets picked over us, what can SLU do to keep our program relevant? We'll be in a really watered down league. Someone in an earlier post suggested that if it comes to this the top A10 programs left standing should form an alliance with the MWC, with east and west divisions. My guess would be we'd bring SLU, URI, UMass, Davidson, St. B's, Richmond, and one more to form the East Division. Play a round robin with the division schools and fill in the other 8 games w/ MWC games. It's not ideal, and it's not the Beast, but it may be our best option. Either that or just kick out the perennial A10 bottom feeders and cherry pick other conferences for their top tier programs. Schools like Valpo, Belmont, Loyola, Charleston, Wofford, etc.

Given our record of retaining good HC's for the long term, I can't see us dominating even a weakened A10 like Gonzaga and St Mary's do in their conference. Both schools have HC's who are permanent fixtures. We seem to have a problem in finding and keeping such people. Sure would like to see Stu do an article w/ May and see where SLU stands in the Beast conversation.

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26 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

This is what jumped out at me from the Dayton AD's thoughts:

we’re just relentless and aggressive in our pursuit to position and fight for Dayton basketball, to fight for our students, to fight for our fans.

Ever hear anything like that from any spokesman at SLU?? Yeah, me neither.

wouldnt surprise me if the majority of our BoT dont even know what D1 athletics is about.   they definitely have never considered what a top basketball program can positively do for a university overall.  

we should probably buy more statues and benches around the lake by the parking garage.

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If you were the next big thing in terms of a P7 or P8 conference, who from the current A10 would you steal?  I'd offer two teams ... VCU and Dayton.  That's it.  Umass and Rhodey have been more down and out then not.  Rhodey went to the NCAAs two years ago for the first time since Lamar Odom.  Umass hasn't sniffed it since maybe Marcus Camby and John Calipari.  Maybe not but it's been a LONG time nonetheless with little if any real success. 

Nobody ever says "hey, let's annex St. Joes, or La Salle, or Duquesne or the Bunnies or Fordham ...."  And every so many years, the Joeys get a Nelson or a Bembry but they are far from consistent.  Those five teams plus GeeDubya, Mason and us are yo-yos when it comes to consistent status.  Davidson has been okay in their first few years in the A10 .. let's give them some more development time, however.  McKillop goes and they go.  Richmond is not special by any stretch. 

Frankly, I see little difference in some of the Midwest schools bopping just above then below the surface ..... Detroit Mercy, Bradley, Drake, Valpo, Tulsa, Tulane, Evansville.  I am sure such a collection also exists in the Mountains and on the Pac Coast -- I just don't follow them much, past my bedtime.  If TV market is the only thing we got -- which appears to be the case -- we're out.  Plain and simple.  We don't bring enough cachet to the table.  The only real thing that might keep us in is Xavier's hatred for the goobers to the north. 

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41 minutes ago, bauman said:

Brian, I'm not sure which teams/schools you are referring to other than Fordham and Lasalle.. Asking them to leave probably ain't gonna happen but another approach would be for the Conference to pass a binding resolution about arena size and home attendance minimums.  The NCAA did the same thing a few years back with some of the lower FBS leagues and it forced some action on the part of those teams and conferences  For example, you must play most of your games in a 5000+ seat arena and / or draw a minimum of 4000 average to your Conference games.  Give everyone 2 seasons to get there or leave. 

I don't think our current Conf Commisioner has the power or will to take the tough steps needed to improve the image of the A-10.  What has she done since she took over?

LaSalle takes crap around the league but over the last 10 seasons they have managed to finish in Sagarin's top 150 six times.  That is the same number of times as UMass and one more time than St Joes.   

Duquesne has only done that twice and not once in the last 8 seasons.  We all have accepted Fordham is going to always suck, but a great year for Duquesne is being an average team.

Mason has only done it twice in their six seasons in the conference.  I still don't get why Mason was ever brought into the conference.  They added nothing.  

In 14 seasons in the A10 the only time SLU has finished outside of the top 150 in Sagarin's rankings were the last two seasons of Crews and Ford's first. In the last 20 seasons it has only happened 4 times total at SLU.  The other time being the 2004-2005 season.  

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33 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

wouldnt surprise me if the majority of our BoT dont even know what D1 athletics is about.   they definitely have never considered what a top basketball program can positively do for a university overall.  

we should probably buy more statues and benches around the lake by the parking garage.

Ya, those deer ones you see as you walk from the Compton garage to the Fetz are really cool!  I bet TF takes all recruits by the deer and that it has a significant impact on signing recruits.

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35 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

If you were the next big thing in terms of a P7 or P8 conference, who from the current A10 would you steal?  I'd offer two teams ... VCU and Dayton.  That's it.  Umass and Rhodey have been more down and out then not.  Rhodey went to the NCAAs two years ago for the first time since Lamar Odom.  Umass hasn't sniffed it since maybe Marcus Camby and John Calipari.  Maybe not but it's been a LONG time nonetheless with little if any real success. 

Nobody ever says "hey, let's annex St. Joes, or La Salle, or Duquesne or the Bunnies or Fordham ...."  And every so many years, the Joeys get a Nelson or a Bembry but they are far from consistent.  Those five teams plus GeeDubya, Mason and us are yo-yos when it comes to consistent status.  Davidson has been okay in their first few years in the A10 .. let's give them some more development time, however.  McKillop goes and they go.  Richmond is not special by any stretch. 

Frankly, I see little difference in some of the Midwest schools bopping just above then below the surface ..... Detroit Mercy, Bradley, Drake, Valpo, Tulsa, Tulane, Evansville.  I am sure such a collection also exists in the Mountains and on the Pac Coast -- I just don't follow them much, past my bedtime.  If TV market is the only thing we got -- which appears to be the case -- we're out.  Plain and simple.  We don't bring enough cachet to the table.  The only real thing that might keep us in is Xavier's hatred for the goobers to the north. 

SLU and Dayton have been to the same number of NCAA tournaments over the last 10 seasons.  SLU has won two outright regular season conference titles in that time.  Dayton has won one outright title and won one shared.  SLU has won two conference tournament championships. Dayton has won zero.  SLU has finished in the bottom half of the conference four times.  Dayton has finished in the bottom half of the conference four times.

I am not sure how Dayton's resume is better than SLU's.

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51 minutes ago, brianstl said:

LaSalle takes crap around the league but over the last 10 seasons they have managed to finish in Sagarin's top 150 six times.  That is the same number of times as UMass and one more time than St Joes.   

Duquesne has only done that twice and not once in the last 8 seasons.  We all have accepted Fordham is going to always suck, but a great year for Duquesne is being an average team.

Mason has only done it twice in their six seasons in the conference.  I still don't get why Mason was ever brought into the conference.  They added nothing.  

In 14 seasons in the A10 the only time SLU has finished outside of the top 150 in Sagarin's rankings were the last two seasons of Crews and Ford's first. In the last 20 seasons it has only happened 4 times total at SLU.  The other time being the 2004-2005 season.  

George Mason was one of the best teams in the Colonial under Jim Larranaga. They were still good the year after when Paul Hewitt took over. Considering Hewitt had a decent record in the crazy competitive ACC, I don't think anyone foresaw how badly he would struggle in the A10.

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5 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

George Mason was one of the best teams in the Colonial under Jim Larranaga. They were still good the year after when Paul Hewitt took over. Considering Hewitt had a decent record in the crazy competitive ACC, I don't think anyone foresaw how badly he would struggle in the A10.

In the seven seasons prior to getting the invite (the seasons after their Final Four run), Mason won the conference one time and went to two NCAA tournaments.  They were not a Butler or a VCU.  They weren't even a Davidson who had won 5 conference championships and made three NCAA tournaments in the seven seasons before they joined the league.  Larranaga is one of the best coaches around and he could only get Mason to the tournament 4 times in 15 seasons as their coach.

Plus, their was no need to add another team in the DC metro area. You already had GW in DC. Plus, both VCU and Richmond are an hour and half drive away.

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28 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

George Mason was one of the best teams in the Colonial under Jim Larranaga. They were still good the year after when Paul Hewitt took over. Considering Hewitt had a decent record in the crazy competitive ACC, I don't think anyone foresaw how badly he would struggle in the A10.

Who do you mean by "anyone"?   The same national media and the same conventional wisdom that thought Jim Crews would similarly do well?   Just like Jim Crews winning with RM's players, Hewett did well with Larranaga's players winning 24 games, then dropped to winning 22 games in the CAA before going to the A10 and winning 11 games and then 9 games will his own players.   And before that in the ACC,  a record of 190 and 162 in the ACC with Georgia Tech is not that special considering the number of home/buy wins.  In league play, his record was 72 and 104 with only 1 winning season in ACC conference play.

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47 minutes ago, brianstl said:

SLU and Dayton have been to the same number of NCAA tournaments over the last 10 seasons.  SLU has won two outright regular season conference titles in that time.  Dayton has won one outright title and won one shared.  SLU has won two conference tournament championships. Dayton has won zero.  SLU has finished in the bottom half of the conference four times.  Dayton has finished in the bottom half of the conference four times.

I am not sure how Dayton's resume is better than SLU's.

First, I do not think the Big East will expand past 11 schools, UConn reportedly to be the 11th, as the Big East wants to keep the round-robin schedule.  Eleven (11) conference teams allows the coming trend 20 game conference schedule.

At this point, I think SLU needs to make the best of the situation in the A10, become the dominant force in the A10.  SLU has the potential to do that.  One good thing about the A10 is we know SLU can win the A10 and make the NCAA Tournament from the A10, as it has 4 times. 

As for the A10, I believe SLU should lead the charge to add Loyola Chicago to the A10.  Loyola is from Chicago, the Nation's #3 media market, and a large SLU alumni base.  Loyola would be my first A10 expansion target. The second would probably be Belmont, from Nashville, Tennessee, a hot, growing city and state.

 

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3 hours ago, bauman said:

Brian, I'm not sure which teams/schools you are referring to other than Fordham and Lasalle.. Asking them to leave probably ain't gonna happen but another approach would be for the Conference to pass a binding resolution about arena size and home attendance minimums.  The NCAA did the same thing a few years back with some of the lower FBS leagues and it forced some action on the part of those teams and conferences  For example, you must play most of your games in a 5000+ seat arena and / or draw a minimum of 4000 average to your Conference games.  Give everyone 2 seasons to get there or leave. 

I don't think our current Conf Commisioner has the power or will to take the tough steps needed to improve the image of the A-10.  What has she done since she took over?

What power does she need? - she should be responding to the demands of the conference teams.  If the top teams in the conference tell her to do what you suggest or they will be looking for other options that is all she needs to hear to move forward unless of course the top teams are happy now.

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2 hours ago, slu72 said:

Therein lies the problem. Here are the A10 schools I think are truly committed to putting together good programs: UD, VCU, Davidson, URI, St. B's, SLU (because of Chaifetz), and UMass (although they've been hurting). The balance of the league seem  content wallowing around in Mediocrity Land. I guess you could make a case that St. Joes wants to return to the top tier  but does little to turn their situation around. I think Duquense is trying but have they made any major commitments to be a better program? Then you have Fordham (who I believe is a sleeping Giant but appears stuck in their comatose state). LaSalle has financial problems. Richmond seems to think Moony is the answer which is kind of strange, since they've got ample funds to do better. I don't know enough about GM to figure out what's up there. GW starts then sputters.

The primary problem w/ the A10 is coaching turnover. An A10 coach has a few good years and he's Shanghied by a P5 school. Just go thru the turnover since the Beast realigned. Smart, Miller, Hurley, Wade. Luckily Davidson's been able to hang on to McKillop. Same for St. B's with Schultz. Our history w/ HC's is horrific. It's almost like we run off the good ones. Spoon and Rick come to mind. Yes, Rick passed, but it was clear once his deal was done he was leaving Dodge.

Since the Beast's realignment in '13 SLU's been to 3 tourneys. 3 out of 6 years is not too shabby. VCU goes every year. UD, I think's been to 3 as well. URI 1, LaSalle 1 ( and had the best finish), St. B's 1, St. Joes 1. I think that covers it. But as the Dayton article states the A10 is on a downward trend that's only going to get rockier. So, what can the conference do about to turn it around? We used to be the 7th best conference in the land, now we're 11. Something's gone terribly wrong. One other thing about the tone of the UD article is UD feels strongly they are next in line if the Beast expands. That came across loud and clear. The AD never even gave a nod that SLU might be a competitor. Appears they are not too worried about XU blocking their path to the big time if the Beast adds one more school. Makes you wonder if they are not way ahead of us in their lobbying efforts with the Beast and have received some kind of assurance that, if they add another, DU's at the top of their list.

Assuming the worst case that VCU bolts to the AAC and DU gets picked over us, what can SLU do to keep our program relevant? We'll be in a really watered down league. Someone in an earlier post suggested that if it comes to this the top A10 programs left standing should form an alliance with the MWC, with east and west divisions. My guess would be we'd bring SLU, URI, UMass, Davidson, St. B's, Richmond, and one more to form the East Division. Play a round robin with the division schools and fill in the other 8 games w/ MWC games. It's not ideal, and it's not the Beast, but it may be our best option. Either that or just kick out the perennial A10 bottom feeders and cherry pick other conferences for their top tier programs. Schools like Valpo, Belmont, Loyola, Charleston, Wofford, etc.

Given our record of retaining good HC's for the long term, I can't see us dominating even a weakened A10 like Gonzaga and St Mary's do in their conference. Both schools have HC's who are permanent fixtures. We seem to have a problem in finding and keeping such people. Sure would like to see Stu do an article w/ May and see where SLU stands in the Beast conversation.

What do you expect him to say - we think X is going to block us so no use trying or SLU is probably a better fit for the BE?  He is selling UD basketball that is his job.  We have to stop worrying about how the BE can save us we have to go out and be the best we can no matter what conference we are in and the rest will take care of itself.  That is what Creighton, Butler, Wichita State, Zags, and St. Mary's have done and look how that has worked out for them.

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49 minutes ago, brianstl said:

In the seven seasons prior to getting the invite (the seasons after their Final Four run), Mason won the conference one time and went to two NCAA tournaments.  They were not a Butler or a VCU.  They weren't even a Davidson who had won 5 conference championships and made three NCAA tournaments in the seven seasons before they joined the league.  Larranaga is one of the best coaches around and he could only get Mason to the tournament 4 times in 15 seasons as their coach.

Plus, their was no need to add another team in the DC metro area. You already had GW in DC. Plus, both VCU and Richmond are an hour and half drive away.

I agree - the A10 jumped to early with the GMU addition.  Nobody was going to take them away.

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I think it was said earlier in the thread, but I agree we need to just forget about the BE and focus on SLU. Ford seems to have things going, but keeps getting held back. Also, I know the locker rooms were brought up, but I actually heard a rumor that the athletics department tried to raise the money for those improvements, couldn't raise it and the university bailed them out. If that's true, we need new fundraisers. There is no reason for SLU to be second tier in the midwest. Why can't we be Xavier or Creighton? We have a great asset in Chaifetz Arena, but we cant rest on that. We need to keep adding on. Even Missouri State has caught up to us in basketball facilities. IMO we need to focus on our internal improvements and ignore the outside noise. Once SLU reaches its potential, the other stuff will fall into place. 

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5 minutes ago, xudash said:

I haven't visited here in forever and stopped by to see how you guys are doing as a result of the announcement concerning UCONN.

Some very good observations and thoughts are coming out of this thread.

One thing I can share with you - and it is no surprise - is that Xavier will have no part of accepting UD into the BE.  This is a strategic matter for Xavier, not a sports matter.  Can Xavier, voting by itself in a meeting, make that happen?  No.  Does this issue for Xavier carry any weight with fellow BE members.  Absolutely.  What might be hard for you guys to appreciate - understandably so, given your experience with A10 members - is just how strongly the BE members have bonded with one another.  Additionally, there are other BE members who have their own short lists of "no can do".  This isn't only a Xavier versus UD issue.  Overall, and this is the real thing: a prospective school that a particular member does not like would have to be so off the charts worthy for membership, assuming a new member is necessary,  that the BE leadership would delicately navigate themselves to the required majority vote to make it happen.  No such school that is otherwise disliked or frowned upon by an existing member exists under that scenario today.  

Any university administration or BoT that does not otherwise understand the value of a successful Athletic Department to a school that is not an Ivy League school or one of similar ilk shouldn't be allowed to remain in their positions.  Look at it historically as some of you have.  Notre Dame in South Bend, IN without Knute Rockne and football?  Perhaps a different place than what it is today.  My opinion of the truly luckiest Catholic university in the United States: its luck changed forever on the night of 11/23/1984 in one moment: FLUTIE.  Our fellow Jesuit friends in Chestnut Hill moved forward from that to eventually navigate themselves into the ACC.  The sports fan might say: "well, yeah, but they're buried in the ACC and finding it hard to win in football or hoops".  The fan is saying that while BC's CFO is counting all the money and their admissions department casts away application after application to arrive at their annual selective student body yield.

Xavier woke-up - barely - in 1979.  It took a damn long time, a lot of hard work, a solid string of luck in replacing departing coaches, and the extraordinary events involving the C7, Big East and Fox to arrive at where it is now.  Xavier is unrecognizable from almost 20 years ago when the Cintas Center first opened.  Xavier used basketball just as Notre Dame used football, though obviously on a relative basis with respect to outcomes.  

You guys have the bones in place, you need the focus and spirit to push forward.  How on God's earth did the Chaifetz Arena come to be without the rest of a strong AD infrastructure in place, or put into place to navigate the entire show from there?   It's not too late, but it's getting very late.  P5 developments - the money they make, the 20-game conference schedules, et al - are tightening the noose.

Your immediate push should be to renegotiate the by-laws of the A10 Conference.  You should insist upon performance standards along the lines of what some of you have suggested in here: minimum requirements for home facilities, recruiting budgets, etc. - - an overall commitment to resourcing a basketball program properly.  And to be truly blunt about it in SLU's case: it isn't about guiding certain woeful A10 programs to improve; it's about guiding them towards the conference exit door.  Less is more, particularly in this case.  Particularly in light of certain programs that should be expelled.  The A10 has some good programs in it, but the bottom of that conference is killing it.  That reality certainly bothered the hell out of me while Xavier was part of the A10.

If you're wondering about the BE's next move - - whether or not it will now stay at 11 or move to 12 - - I think it is very safe to say that the BE intends to stand pat at 11 for now in order to protect the round robin.  That has proven to be a major selling point and success driver for the conference.  Word has it from an internal media source that the BE was and is exceeding FOX's media measurement goals.  That news coupled with the UCONN addition - not only the fact that it is UCONN, but that the act of adding a new team triggers the ability to reset the existing 12-year deal - - has everyone expecting that the dollars per school are about to go up significantly.  Dodd tweated $6 million per school per year, but then pulled that dollar figure back out of his tweat.  We're standing by for any news about that while we otherwise watch in fascination as some relatively small number of UCONN football fans continue to melt down over all this.

I've probably visited long enough.  Good luck.  I'll end with this: I believe SLU is the Big East's #12 if 3 things happen:

1. Even more content demand drives FOX to eventually want a 12th member.

2. If you guys position yourselves better via performance and on court success, including consistency in nabbing NCAAT bids.

3. If the P5 doesn't change so dramatically that a Wake Forest or other lessor existing P5 school falls out of that club and into the BE (unlikely).

I am very into a Xavier fan post??

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Stability is important we have to get there and stay there.

Taking care of coach Ford is one way to stabilize our basketball program.

I hope SLU will take a chance and give coach Ford a raise and extension soon.  It will show SLU is taking the basketball program seriously they are all in.

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29 minutes ago, Old guy said:

If we manage to get to the dance again this season, and then win a couple of games in it, the case for giving Ford an extension would be much easier to push forward.

So it will take a Sweet 16 to get Ford an extension?  Seems a bit unrealistic to say that is the only way he gets one.  I would be shocked if what Willie says is not true.

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50 minutes ago, Old guy said:

If we manage to get to the dance again this season, and then win a couple of games in it, the case for giving Ford an extension would be much easier to push forward.

Less expensive longterm and greater chance of retention to pay your D1 before he has such high level success 

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

If we manage to get to the dance again this season, and then win a couple of games in it, the case for giving Ford an extension would be much easier to push forward.

He deserves it now. After the dumpster fire he inherited and some really bad luck, i.e. Sit2, to have us dancing this year was a miracle. 

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