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1 hour ago, majerus mojo said:

you've got the gist of it 

 

If teams like Penn State and Nebraska need this kind of a thing to get into the Dance then explain how this helps - just more losses to P5 powerhouses in their league.  I understand that non P5 teams will have even more trouble scheduling but for a teams above beating a good non P5 team may actually be better for them then another loss.  I get that the metrics say a loss to a good P5 team may be better than a win over a weak non P5 team but beating a very good URI is also good and perhaps more achievable.

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37 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

If teams like Penn State and Nebraska need this kind of a thing to get into the Dance then explain how this helps - just more losses to P5 powerhouses in their league.  I understand that non P5 teams will have even more trouble scheduling but for a teams above beating a good non P5 team may actually be better for them then another loss.  I get that the metrics say a loss to a good P5 team may be better than a win over a weak non P5 team but beating a very good URI is also good and perhaps more achievable.

I agree that was an odd statement.

In some ways college basketball is moving towards the college football model of play 12 games total, 8 against conference opponents, 3 against patsies and 1 against a decent non-conference opponent. As long as you and your conference mates don't lose a crazy number of those early season games you all can just rest on the conference's perceived strength and claim when they lose to each other that they are just losing to good teams. Since the other schools never actually got a chance to play the P5 schools how would anybody know if they are good or not.

One of the nice things about college basketball was that the first half of the season was all about figuring out which conferences were actually good (instead of just reputation based). This is slowly going away.

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2 hours ago, kshoe said:

I agree that was an odd statement.

In some ways college basketball is moving towards the college football model of play 12 games total, 8 against conference opponents, 3 against patsies and 1 against a decent non-conference opponent. As long as you and your conference mates don't lose a crazy number of those early season games you all can just rest on the conference's perceived strength and claim when they lose to each other that they are just losing to good teams. Since the other schools never actually got a chance to play the P5 schools how would anybody know if they are good or not.

One of the nice things about college basketball was that the first half of the season was all about figuring out which conferences were actually good (instead of just reputation based). This is slowly going away.

I also wonder if they think that by not playing a good non P5 team is in their top team's interest so they do not have to risk losing to said good non P5 school thus avoiding the embarrassment.  

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  • 1 year later...

Posters over on the Big East forum, holylandofhoops, are wetting themselves thinking UConn will be joining ASAP.  Besides the UConn football issue, the other brick wall is that UConn is a public university.  The Big East would have to open their financial records up to any request, should they add a public member. 

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SLU honestly has no choice but to put this at the very top of its list of University wide priorities. Nothing else will give us the level of publicity as being in the Big East. Chris May should not spend his days doing anything but lobbying for a seat at the Big East table. Fred Pestello should be wining and dining with the commissioners.

UConn would never abandon football to join the Beast. 

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7 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

SLU honestly has no choice but to put this at the very top of its list of University wide priorities. Nothing else will give us the level of publicity as being in the Big East. Chris May should not spend his days doing anything but lobbying for a seat at the Big East table. Fred Pestello should be wining and dining with the commissioners.

UConn would never abandon football to join the Beast. 

Did you not see they had a pony and selfies with Fred P?

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1 minute ago, Spoon-Balls said:

SLU honestly has no choice but to put this at the top of the list of priorities. Nothing else will give us the level of publicity as being in the Big East. Chris May should not spend his days doing anything but lobbying for a seat at the Big East table. Fred Pestello should be wining and dining with the commissioners.

seriously, slu is the same school that nickels and dimes everything athletic.   until we make a couple of final fours ala butler and have the ncaa juice to show the actual revenue worth to not only slu but the big east, this isnt going to happen.  

that level of publicity is secondary to our BoT to actual revenue and costs, and if the big east isnt going to treat us as an equal partner and assist in paying those fees, you guys are dreaming this is ever going to happen.  

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2 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

seriously, slu is the same school that nickels and dimes everything athletic.   until we make a couple of final fours ala butler and have the ncaa juice to show the actual revenue worth to not only slu but the big east, this isnt going to happen.  

that level of publicity is secondary to our BoT to actual revenue and costs, and if the big east isnt going to treat us as an equal partner and assist in paying those fees, you guys are dreaming this is ever going to happen.  

There is zero % chance that Pestello, May, and the BoT don't "get it" this time around. ZERO. This is SLU's opportunity to join a major conference. What I'm scared they don't get, is the level of enthusiasm and consistent selling that this pitch takes. May should be taking Ackerman and her staff out to dinner every night. 

A- Always

B- Be

C- Closing

Publicity that the Big East brings us = dollars and cents. Even if we had to forfeit our NCAA credits for the first four years, it makes sense in the long run. Can you imagine how much better attendance would be on a game to game basis to see a Big East schedule rather than an A10 one? 

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1 hour ago, Billiken Rich said:

Chris WILL make it happen........

Let's be positive...... 

I'd love to see SLU hire an AD named Chris Will. If you guys think Pestello has the ability to schmooze any high functioning adult, you're fooling yourselves. The guy is awkward trying to schmooze 18 year old undergrads let alone powerful people. It would be worse than the "here comes the meat wagon' scene from Tommy Boy.

2 minutes ago, prebilliken said:

Publicity that the Big East brings us = dollars and cents. Even if we had to forfeit our NCAA credits for the first four years, it makes sense in the long run. Can you imagine how much better attendance would be on a game to game basis to see a Big East schedule rather than an A10 one? 

There isn't a lot of NCAA money owed to SLU at this point. I think its in the final 2 years of payouts from the 2014 season at this point, depending how it is timed. 

The Big East dream died long ago. Let it RIP. 

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7 minutes ago, prebilliken said:

There is zero % chance that Pestello, May, and the BoT don't "get it" this time around. ZERO. This is SLU's opportunity to join a major conference. What I'm scared they don't get, is the level of enthusiasm and consistent selling that this pitch takes. May should be taking Ackerman and her staff out to dinner every night. 

A- Always

B- Be

C- Closing

Publicity that the Big East brings us = dollars and cents. Even if we had to forfeit our NCAA credits for the first four years, it makes sense in the long run. Can you imagine how much better attendance would be on a game to game basis to see a Big East schedule rather than an A10 one? 

so if the big east wont equally share the tv revenue and wont equally share the ncaa credits, other than guaranteed sellouts of home games for conference games, where is the "dollars and cents" exactly coming from?  got to get past the junior member status that the big east was  talking a few years back or it makes zero sense because there will be no "dollar and scents".

we have to become high performing ncaa team year in and year out like butler was before their invite before the big east truly wants us and treats us fairly.   

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5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

so if the big east wont equally share the tv revenue and wont equally share the ncaa credits, other than guaranteed sellouts of home games for conference games, where is the "dollars and cents" exactly coming from?  got to get past the junior member status that the big east was  talking a few years back or it makes zero sense because there will be no "dollar and scents".

 

This argument doesn't hold water to me. The current revenue from TV revenue that SLU gets is a few hundred thousand. It is better than a kick in the shin, but a rounding error for the big east in terms of television revenue. Even if Big East said "Hey SLU come join us, but for the next 5 years you are getting 50% of the typical revenue distribution (over 3 million per school per year)" everyone in athletics and administration should be fired, locked in jail, and fed fish bones twice a week if they wouldn't walk on their toes to New York City to accept that deal. 

Even if you get 1/3 of the usual, its more than you're currently getting just in dollars. But then you add on the national TV presence every single week of the season. The national FOX games of the week a couple times a year. 

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3 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

This argument doesn't hold water to me. The current revenue from TV revenue that SLU gets is a few hundred thousand. It is better than a kick in the shin, but a rounding error for the big east in terms of television revenue. Even if Big East said "Hey SLU come join us, but for the next 5 years you are getting 50% of the typical revenue distribution (over 3 million per school per year)" everyone in athletics and administration should be fired, locked in jail, and fed fish bones twice a week if they wouldn't walk on their toes to New York City to accept that deal. 

Even if you get 1/3 of the usual, its more than you're currently getting just in dollars. But then you add on the national TV presence every single week of the season. The national FOX games of the week a couple times a year. 

my understanding is the big east wouldnt commit to the length of time they would be junior partners that would not share tv and ncaa credits.  without any revenue, the program would become the annual bottom feeder and automatic "W" for the rest of the league.   again, we have to make them want us in the league where the junior program mandate disappears.   until then we would be fools to join.  

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18 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I'd love to see SLU hire an AD named Chris Will. If you guys think Pestello has the ability to schmooze any high functioning adult, you're fooling yourselves. The guy is awkward trying to schmooze 18 year old undergrads let alone powerful people. It would be worse than the "here comes the meat wagon' scene from Tommy Boy.

There isn't a lot of NCAA money owed to SLU at this point. I think its in the final 2 years of payouts from the 2014 season at this point, depending how it is timed.  

The Big East dream died long ago. Let it RIP.  

1116012766_chriswill.jpg.4803f0914c24c0ecbad0acf14cb9a074.jpg

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27 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

seriously, slu is the same school that nickels and dimes everything athletic.   until we make a couple of final fours ala butler and have the ncaa juice to show the actual revenue worth to not only slu but the big east, this isnt going to happen.  

that level of publicity is secondary to our BoT to actual revenue and costs, and if the big east isnt going to treat us as an equal partner and assist in paying those fees, you guys are dreaming this is ever going to happen.  

I don't believe this is correct. We do not nickel and dime. From coaches salaries- charter flights-training table-recruiting budgets -tutors you name it. We are  stuck in Pitt ,  can't get a flight so we send a charter. That's not nickel and dime. We very much tried to get in the Big East first time around. Biondi is no longer running the show. 

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I love all the Dayton people talking about how many fans they draw.  That doesn't matter to programs in a potential new conference.  Dayton's attendance will have zero impact on their attractiveness as a Big East program.  Road teams in college basketball don't get a percentage of the gate in conference games.  The money that is generated by people buying Dayton tickets all stays with Dayton.  What matters is how attractive your media market is to advertisers, the number of potential students in your market, how many potential recruits your market produces, the overall state of a school's athletic program/facilities and the biggest thing is how the conference views a program's potential to generate revenue for other conference members (In the Big East that comes down to how often the conference thinks you can make it to the NCAA basketball tournament).

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10 minutes ago, willie said:

I don't believe this is correct. We do not nickel and dime. From coaches salaries- charter flights-training table-recruiting budgets -tutors you name it. We are  stuck in Pitt ,  can't get a flight so we send a charter. That's not nickel and dime. We very much tried to get in the Big East first time around. Biondi is no longer running the show. 

im talking the entire athletic dept nickel and dimewise as the basketball program supports the rest.   if the revenue is drastically cut because we are stuck in a never ending  junior revenue sharing deal just to be in the big east, the other programs will suffer even more then they already are cut back.   

hey i am all for a higher profile conference.  but only if all the benefits are equal to the other partners and we arent just paying to be a member with no benefits back to slu.    

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16 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

my understanding is the big east wouldnt commit to the length of time they would be junior partners that would not share tv and ncaa credits.  without any revenue, the program would become the annual bottom feeder and automatic "W" for the rest of the league.   again, we have to make them want us in the league where the junior program mandate disappears.   until then we would be fools to join.  

That doesn't make sense to me though because why would they want that?  It would make more sense for them to just say no to SLU.  If you let SLU in, they should want SLU to be successful because that helps everybody in the conference.  An automatic W is great until it doesn't do anything to help you get into the tournament and could hurt if you lose.  Plus it brings down the entire conference NET or RPI.  That just seems like a lose lose to both SLU and the Big East.  I get initially being a junior because they get the additional money but not to commit to a length of time just doesn't make sense to me.  

We should make them want us and a lot of that in my mind is up to Dr. P and especially somebody like Dr. Chaifetz showing that they are willing and have put money towards the athletics currently to do what it takes to be successful.  That is part of the junior status, we would have to be able to show we have money to survive those 5 years or whatever and still be competitive and then we can get our share of the revenue.  

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I think having the support of Creighton, Marquette, DePaul, Butler, and Xavier will be as important as anything.  We have old conference rivalries with all of them.  They are all games within driving distance of the schools and should add to the competitiveness of the conference.  If those schools hold their noses at us, it will be hard to get in.

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