New Asst Coach

[cheeseman]

Look if you tell me that in a couple of years we make the NCAA 3 years in a row but lose in the first round each time I would be OK with that given where we are today.  If you tell me that 6 years from now the same thing is happening then maybe I would be less OK with it but my guess is that in 6 years we will be in much better shape as a program so moving forward should be easier.  As far as wanting an X and O guy over a recruiter goes - if it has to be one or the other give me the recruiter.  X and O guys do not make news for the program unless they are a RM but to say that RM was only and X and O guy is not even close to being accurate. He could recruit good solid players.  When he first came here he was landing these type of players but of course as time went by others started to follow the people he was looking at.  As some one else said - a HOF coach walking in our doors is a once in a life time thing at SLU for some of us.  Hopefully for the younger fans that is not true.

[Old guy]

We are stuck with Ford as head coach and regardless of all of your collective fears and nightmares about his projected shortcomings as an X and Os guy, he IS our head coach and he will continue being our head coach until he pulls another Crews and gets fired out of here. This being the case we might as well get Imodium to control our collective diarrhea and PeptoBismol to control our collective heart burns. A bit of Valium to let us sleep peacefully at night without nightmares may help too.

The big problem I see is that this coming season will most likely not be good, something that will likely aggravate the fears and accusations cast about Ford being a terrible coach. Anyway, as it always happens, it is what it is which is never perfect. So I am of the opinion that we might as well give the guy a chance to show us how good or how bad he really is as a head coach at SLU. The chances are that he will be better than Crews (hard to be worse than Crews), but perhaps he will never rise to the lofty level of Majerus. 

There are no guarantees extended in any such a process as a search for a head coach. Those in charge make the decisions, everyone else has to live with the results and pray that the guy will be good, as it will surely be proven one way or the other with time. It is way too early to start badmouthing and casting doubts about the guy before he has had the chance to play a single game as our coach.

[moytoy12]

On July 31, 2016 at 1:34 PM, NextYearBill said:

TFord will go down as the greatest coach in SLU history

Already in the top 3.

[Clock_Tower]

I may part to blame on this thread so let me explain.

First, I am 100% supportive of Travis Ford and happy that he is our coach.

Second, if Ford's reputation as an X's and O's coach equaled his recruiting and motivational reputation, he'd probably be in the middle of a long-term contract right now at a Power conference.

Third, I don't expect and demand much this season other than a new and positive team attitude, improved effort, the team not to quit and for the team to improve, not regress, as the year goes onward.

Fourth, I will not jump all over Ford after some questionable game decisions and tell everyone I was right about him. I, and we, should all have an open mind and give Ford the benefit of the doubt.

Fifth, comparisons of Ford to Jim Crews are ridiculous.  Crews should never have been hired as our head coach, he never earned the respect of the players and they quit on him - repeatedly. 

At the same time, it fair to have concerns - no panic going on here. The 2 concerns I have are his game time coaching and his inexplicable reliance on 1 or 2 guys to assume the PG duties.  Both can be remedied with a slight change of recruiting emphasis (recruit 1 or 2 extra PG's which could be a lesson learned the hard way at OSU not to be repeated here at SLU) as well as bringing in help with the X's and O's.  Maybe, Ford is actually a good X's and O's coach but has been reluctant to accept offered help in the past (trying to unilaterally do everything) and again this can be another lesson learned the hard way. Maybe Ford learned that he needs an X's and O's coach and believes he now has one. In short, Ford has sure had considerable success at both UMass and OSU despite these 2 concerns which are items to be aware of and which warrant our attention but which do not, at least in my opinion, signal that there is certain trouble or failure ahead for our program.

And I had to choose one or the other, I would choose a great X's and O's coach over a great recruiter, but as I said previously,even if this turns out to be true, it may be more enjoyable (certainly different) in that we have sure watched coach after coach here at SLU try to get the most out of limited talent for years.

[P.B.]

Good players can make up for coaching shortfalls, especially in non-major conferences. I think Crews was an ok X/O guy, except that stupid not filling the lane thing on free throws, but couldn't get needed players. When he had the guys Majerus got/developed, things were great still but I could have probably coached that team. Ford should be able to win a lot in the A10 from getting good players and Tate should help him. I like it a lot.

I think either type of coach can win a lot of games at SLU. Romar is an elite recruiter but has trouble coaching. If Ford can recruit at Romar's level and coach a bit better the future is very bright, and that is what I am envisioning. You get away with a little more in the A10 than PAC whatever number now and ACC.

[Cowboy]

2 hours ago, Old guy said:

 

The big problem I see is that this coming season will most likely not be good, something that will likely aggravate the fears and accusations cast about Ford being a terrible coach. Anyway and it always happens, it is what it is which is never perfect. So I am of the opinion that we might as well give the guy a chance to show us how good or how bad he really is as a head coach at SLU. The chances are that he will be better than Crews (hard to be worse than Crews), but perhaps he will never rise to the lofty level of Majerus. 

 

-who has been posting that they have lofty expectations for this season and if they are not met they will turn on the coach? Clock's third point hits the season for me and I think or hope for most

[majerus mojo]

6 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

After you've been a head coach in the NCAA for 10 years, you're usually what your record says you are.  Ford has a .552 winning percentage after 16 years as a head coach. That's Seth Greenberg territory.

I think Coach is quite aware of his weaknesses as an X and O coach.  His strengths are his charisma and his tireless work ethic. His best chance for success is to build the best roster in the conference.  And at the A-10 level, if early results are any indication, he's quite capable of that.

Bingo, and Seth Greenberg would be a pretty great hire for a majority of schools in our conference (ha). He doesn't have to go up against  the Bill Self's, i.e. the really great NCAA coaches, be it recruiting and/or X's O's, in this conference, which will help. If you're hoping for more than the strengths pointed out here, along with the roster building, odds are you will find a way to be disappointed. Either way anyone who gives Ford gruff for anything that happens next season, with the players he has available, I will laugh at. At least save that for when he has some of his guys in '17-18.

[Old guy]

8 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

I may part to blame on this thread so let me explain.

And I had to choose one or the other, I would choose a great X's and O's coach over a great recruiter, but as I said previously,even if this turns out to be true, it may be more enjoyable (certainly different) in that we have sure watched coach after coach here at SLU try to get the most out of limited talent for years.

That is exactly the point Clock, you had nothing to do with the decision to hire Ford. That said, as it has been stated or implied before, SLU's program, particularly after the last three seasons, is not exactly a high power or prestige place that will attract elite coaches who are perfect in every way. We have to expect some blemishes in whoever it is that SLU can get for the job, the sky is most certainly not the limit for us and perfection is unattainable at least in our current state.

So, and assuming they got the very best of those who interviewed for the job, we have what we have. We will live with a coach that can recruit talent, and hope he is good enough to move us forward as much as he can, which he will try to do. Any mention indicating there are better coaches out there is totally correct and true. So what is your point, you are tired of the same thing over and over again. Well this time it comes in a different package, this guy can talk to the press and can recruit, we will see how well he does in the court in due time.

[slufanskip]

25 minutes ago, Old guy said:

That is exactly the point Clock, you had nothing to do with the decision to hire Ford. That said, as it has been stated or implied before, SLU's program, particularly after the last three seasons, is not exactly a high power or prestige place that will attract elite coaches who are perfect in every way. We have to expect some blemishes in whoever it is that SLU can get for the job, the sky is most certainly not the limit for us and perfection is unattainable at least in our current state.

So, and assuming they got the very best of those who interviewed for the job, we have what we have. We will live with a coach that can recruit talent, and hope he is good enough to move us forward as much as he can, which he will try to do. Any mention indicating there are better coaches out there is totally correct and true. So what is your point, you are tired of the same thing over and over again. Well this time it comes in a different package, this guy can talk to the press and can recruit, we will see how well he does in the court in due time.

Perfection is unattainable for us? It is true and correct that there are better coaches out there than Coach Ford? F--k, this is pissing me off. I was not going to get season tickets this year, but now that I know this, I'm really, really not getting them

[Old guy]

Sulfan, when you make a decision about anything, from buying a car, to marrying someone, you can be absolutely certain that there is better out there (same applies to the woman you are marrying, it cuts both ways). So what. I the best you can afford is a Chevy Cruze or a Ford Focus that is what you have to live with and appreciate. Forget the fact that there are Lamborghinis out there, they are just not available to you. 

[ACE]

- Given a choice between recruiter and x's and o's guy, I will take the coach who can get talent. If Ford can attract talent that is better than our A-10 rivals, we'll do just fine. Sodie, who some on this board considered a good x's and o's guy, never sniffed the Tourney. While RM was a strategic master, he was also very good at attracting talent and developing it. His teams that won had good talent, depth, quickness - usually better than our A-10 opponents. It wasn't smoke and mirriors.

- Regarding Ford, from bringing in the transfers to assembling the staff, he seems to be making a lot of good moves in the early going. Regarding his strategic acumen, I will keep an open mind and not really start to form an opinion until 2017-18. I'm not going to automatically accept the criticism of OSU fans either.  Fans of big state schools in small towns tend to have VERY unrealistic expectations. With the exception of his final year, Ford had a good run at OSU. It was a mess when he took over. The knock on Ford is the lack of NCAA Tourney success. Was it a result of poor coaching? Perhaps. Ford should be entering his coaching prime at his age. He's already had a lot of experience and relatively young, so hopefully room for him to grow and improve as a coach.

 

[RUBillsFan]

It is an overly simplistic view point to group coaches into X's and O's guys and recruiters.  There is a pretty wide spectrum of awful to excellent in each of those categories.  Further, there are some coaches who coach defense very well, but can't coach offense (Sodie IMO was good at D, bad at O; Majerus was transcendent at D, and just okay at O) and vice versa (think Mike D'Antoni).  Some coaches have "systems" and must recruit certain types of players to fit their "system".  Others try to develop their system based upon the talent they have.

[JMM28]

I think you are all making this too simplistic. 

Majerus's strength was knowing what type of players could execute his offense exactly the way he wanted. He wasn't recruiting guys from the high school level that ran half a dozen sets on either side of the ball each year. He needed guys who could be smart enough to remember and execute god knows how many sets that he had. Luckily for them, he wasn't a big zone guy. 

Soderberg couldn't assemble talent at all, but he could alter his game plans to the specific opponents and the talent he had. 

I'm not sure if Romar is good at anything besides recruiting based on stars. 

[slufan13]

Umass fans weren't thrilled with Ford either. They thought he underachieved there. But Ford is still growing on me and I give him at least 2 years before making a judgement on him. Worst case scenario to me is that he's the bridge guy who gets us back to respectability and upgrades the roster, but it takes the coach after him to get us back to where Majerus had us.

[brianstl]

14 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

After you've been a head coach in the NCAA for 10 years, you're usually what your record says you are.  Ford has a .552 winning percentage after 16 years as a head coach. That's Seth Greenberg territory.

I think Coach is quite aware of his weaknesses as an X and O coach.  His strengths are his charisma and his tireless work ethic. His best chance for success is to build the best roster in the conference.  And at the A-10 level, if early results are any indication, he's quite capable of that.

I would go with a Leonard Hamilton comparison over Greenburg.  Both Hamilton and Ford have shown the ability to consistently make the tournament in top conferences and recruit at a high level.  They both even coached at OK St..

I have come around on my thinking on Ford.  I think he can get us to the tournament regularly with his ability to recruit talent.  The tournament really is a crap shoot through the first few rounds.  Get it in enough and you are going to get one sweet sixteen or deeper run eventually.  Hell, John Giannini has made the sweet sixteen. 

Ford wouldn't have been my first choice out of the realistic candidates, but he wasn't a bad choice.

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

Worst case scenario to me is that he's the bridge guy who gets us back to respectability and upgrades the roster, but it takes the coach after him to get us back to where Majerus had us.

Based on Ford's track record over 16 years, I think "bridge guy" isn't worst case. It's the most likely case. And I'm OK with that. The class of coaches who win over 70 percent of their games have already established that track record after the first 5 years of their career.

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

Umass fans weren't thrilled with Ford either. They thought he underachieved there. But Ford is still growing on me and I give him at least 2 years before making a judgement on him. Worst case scenario to me is that he's the bridge guy who gets us back to respectability and upgrades the roster, but it takes the coach after him to get us back to where Majerus had us.

I don't think bridge guy is an option for Ford here.  I think there or only two options for Ford to not be here for the next decade or longer.  

The first one is failure. He just doesn't get us to the tournament in the next four to five years, attendance drops further, the program becomes more irrelevant locally, we fire him and the program starts over even further removed from any success.

The second is he gets a top 20 type of job.  That is going to require him to take the program on an elite eight type of run (or maybe a couple of sweet sixteen runs).  It will require that kind of success for a program to overlook his run at Oklahoma St..  If that happens he won't be viewed as a bridge coach, but as the most successful SLU coach since Eddie Hickey. 

 

I think the most likely scenario for Travis is that in a few years we get back to the tournament, he gets a contract extension, we make the tournament more often than not after that and he coaches here for the next decade plus.

[kwyjibo]

The Billikens (with Soderberg) were better than UMass in Ford's first year (05-06).  In his second year (06-07) when they had a lineup that featured two future NBA players UMass had a good regular season and were regular season co-champs.  They were seemingly destined to go to the NCAA (it was a down year in the A-10 but they had a very likely chance if they beat SLU) until they lost to a plucky Soderberg recruited and coached team in the A-10 tourny (and I was there).  That was a game they needed to win and did not (coaching was part of the difference).  The next year (07-08) they also had a great lineup with Gary Forbes again.  They had a good season and finished 3rd in an improved A-10 but crapped out once again in a must win first round A-10 tourney game against Charlotte (Majerus's 1st SLU team lost a close one to Dayton in the play-in round).  St. Joes was a 5 seed in the A-10 tourney and got an at-large NCAA bid based on winning some games in the A-10 tourney and playing a harder schedule.

The 1-5 record in the NCAA and a pretty poor record in the Big 12 tournament with OK State (to be fair Ford's record is poor in the Big 12 tourney because he is generally going up against tough competition in the quarters) would lead one to suspect there is a problem with winning big games.

I have talked to 5 UMass fans now since SLU hired him.  They all have a mixed view of Ford but they were all very happy with players he brought in.  Generally they all liked the boost Ford gave them as none of them really liked Lappas but said not getting to the NCAA was a big negative.  One talked about coaching issues and specifically thought he hired a weak staff (so far at SLU this does not appear to be a problem generally) as he seemed reluctant to blame Ford.  All of them talked about Gary Forbes and noted his production could have been better (I looked it up and Forbes shot under 30% from 3 his senior year while doubling his shots attempted and still earned the A-10 POY).  3 of them specifically criticized Ford not for "X's and O's" exactly but in player development/management (they specifically complained about poor shot selection and Ford being too lax with player discipline).   2 clearly thought none of players brought in (and he brought in a lot of players) got any better while at UMass.  The consensus on Ford's teams was all 5 guys always wanted the ball and team play was an issue.  In reference to this discussion I am not sure this is an "X and O" problem as it is something else.

 

[slufanskip]

3 hours ago, Old guy said:

Sulfan, when you make a decision about anything, from buying a car, to marrying someone, you can be absolutely certain that there is better out there (same applies to the woman you are marrying, it cuts both ways). So what. I the best you can afford is a Chevy Cruze or a Ford Focus that is what you have to live with and appreciate. Forget the fact that there are Lamborghinis out there, they are just not available to you. 

Thanks so much for the insight. Not just in basketball but in life. I now feel better about my gal and my car

[Old guy]

Glad you feel better Sulfan, and please keep in mind that I drove a Saturn between 2003 and a couple of months ago, it had over 325,000 miles in it when I junked it. The best of all is that there was no major work done in the engine or transmission throughout its long lifetime. What can I say, it was a crappy little car that made me very happy for a very long time, a real robust little beast, if I can call it that. My current car is still nothing to write home about. 

[Bills_06]

21 hours ago, ACE said:

“Congratulations to Corey Tate on his move back to the St. Louis area, where his family has continued to live during his time on the Mizzou Basketball coaching staff,” Anderson said in a release from MU. “We appreciate Coach Tate’s efforts while back home at his alma mater, the flagship institution of our great state.”

“We will identify a new member of our coaching staff that is prepared to tackle the challenges of coaching and recruiting in the Southeastern Conference, while continuing to be a strong mentor and role model for our student-athletes,” Anderson said.

 

I was reading Gabe DeArmonds timeline and when this was released he was under the impression that they included the wording "flagship institution of our great state" as a shot for trying to call SLU a lesser school.  I would be under the impression that they would be referring to public schools?  Can't believe they would think they are better than Wash U. 

[hsmith19]

5 hours ago, Old guy said:

Sulfan, when you make a decision about anything, from buying a car, to marrying someone, you can be absolutely certain that there is better out there (same applies to the woman you are marrying, it cuts both ways). So what. I the best you can afford is a Chevy Cruze or a Ford Focus that is what you have to live with and appreciate. Forget the fact that there are Lamborghinis out there, they are just not available to you. 

I'd like to see that Lambo try to match the 35 miles to the gallon I get in the city with my Ford Fiesta. Or the added bonus of never worrying about it getting broken into when I park six blocks from Chaifetz.

[majerus mojo]

1 minute ago, hsmith19 said:

I'd like to see that Lambo try to match the 35 miles to the gallon I get in the city with my Ford Fiesta. Or the added bonus of never worrying about it getting broken into when I park six blocks from Chaifetz.

Pretty funny if you think a Ford Fiesta is safe in #ourtown... haha

[hsmith19]

I was a Mustang owner for 10 years and they got broken into probably a half dozen times (oddly none during Billiken games, though). None since I made the switch to the Fiesta.

[billslasttermdropout]

How many Winnebagos can we afford?  Good for long party trips.