Recruiting - 2019

[slu72]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

while i am very pleased with thatch's defensive performance and his visible confidence on the floor, i am also mildly disappointed with his very uneven offensive performance.   i dont think we need to talk about jacobs performance thus far.   and while hankton has shown to have a nice shot, beyond that...... anyway, thus i see an opportunity we will see 2-3 starters coming from outside this current roster.   heck for all we know, that could mean someone we dont even lay claim to yet.   

the good news is with a core of french and goodwin, we have a nice foundation to build on.   and honestly, if you are correct and our starters do all come from our existing roster, we wont be terrible by any means.   summer means a good opportunity for all concerned to accept responsibility and build their shortcomings into strengths.  

And we get an overseas trip this year. Good bonding time and extra practice.

[gobillsgo]

Just now, slu72 said:

And we get an overseas trip this year. Good bonding time and extra practice.

If they opt to do the trip, it would be great to have a full roster. They could put it off a year though... since we will have no seniors (barring GTs) no one will miss out. 

[gobillsgo]

16 hours ago, SLU_Nick said:

A lot of sleeping on Jacobs in this thread.  He has the highest ceiling of anyone on the roster imo 

I just don’t see it. Most athletic ability, sure. But not most potential as a basketball player. 

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

We won’t know this roster until September it seems 

[slu72]

1 hour ago, gobillsgo said:

If they opt to do the trip, it would be great to have a full roster. They could put it off a year though... since we will have no seniors (barring GTs) no one will miss out. 

If the FR enrolled in summer school could they go? If not, I'd agree put it off a year. 

[Cincybill]

2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

There's a reason that's it so rare for mid-majors to be really good with a freshman in the backcourt.  We don't normally get the kind of transcendent player you need to pull that off.  Kellan Grady was a blue-chipper and that kind of freshman for Davidson last year.  I don't see that kind of freshman coming in next year. 

I think this is the hardest thing for most fans of all teams to understand. Outside of blue blood level recruits, most freshmen come into college, raw, weak, and not overly skilled compared to what they are about to see. And it's not their fault at all. In high school, most prospects usually get by with their athleticism and always get to play with the ball in their hands against weak unathletic (compared to college) defenders. Most don't get that luxury coming in as a true freshman and learning how to be effective and productive without the ball in your hands usually takes time.

We usually only see stats and highlight tapes. When you actually watch a game you get to see parts of their games that translates and doesn't translate to college basketball.

All of our freshmen have that learning curve this year and it's safe to assume next year's class will do the same. I'm hoping Perkins is experienced and polished enough to make the jump from juco ball. Adding a veteran center would be ideal as well to limit the amount of inexperience we could potentially been forced to play with.

[ACE]

19 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Ace

Good post.  I was just thinking similar things this morning had started to work on a new topic/thread but like yours right here:

Here's the reason why some are against Grad Transfers

1.   Rasheed Anthony - just not any good.  Luis Santos - bad habits/mind elsewhere/never played/probably never even thinks about SLU

2.   Lost opportunity.  Unlike you and 3 Star, I would rather give playing time to Thatch (high upside) rather than use him as a "6th man"  vs. another 1 year guy. 

Inheriting the Jim Crews roster and then being hit with S2 left Coach Ford with very few options.  To me, Coach is doing great -- better than anticipated.  Yes, you're right, where would we be without Isabell & Wiley?  I am sure thankful for both.  Can I complain that Isabell's initial games were more selfish, not as good as recently and that Goodwin lost out important PG minutes to him?  Can I complain that Wiley missed a large part of games?  Sure, but glad to have them.  And again, Isabell and Wiley turned out alot better than our prior guys.

Next year, though, things won't be so dire.   Getting another guy to take minutes away from Thatch doesn't sound so good to me.  We will lose quality Frosh and Sophs by continually relying upon Grad Transfers.  And Perkins is a JUCO so we will have 3 Juniors in Goodwin, French and Perkins.  We will also have Thatch, Hankton and Jacobs who will need to play -- not delay their growth by sitting behind a Grad Transfer.   Same we our Frosh:  Yuri, Jimmerson and Hargrove.  Teams only really 7 to 8 players to win and 10 to practice - develop.  The bottom 3 will be unhappy and want to look elsewhere no matter what.  I am just concerned that some very talented youth may fall into the bottom 3 and leave -- all because we bring in an average Grad Transfer.

And classes have a way of balancing themselves out.  And if we have an additional spot because of a guy like Wellmer, maybe we consider getting another regular transfer:  Bess, Henriquez, Graves, Foreman, but to, stay away from future Grad Transfers for the most part.

 

Clock,

Some good debate here...

1) Keep in mind, that when we signed Anthony he was basically projected as the 13th man on the roster. Ford was expecting to head into last season with a lot of depth and the plan for Anthony was to simply be a one-year insurance policy. It was before Welmer was lost for the year to injury and before S2... suddenly the depth Ford was expecting was depleted. By all accounts was a Very good teammate. Good practice player, played some defense when called upon.  Santos was not a grad transfer, but a traditional sit out a year transfer. I was not aware of any baggage in his past when we signed him. Obviously it turned out poorly, but that can happen with high school recruits as well.

2) I really like a lot of things out of Thatch, but just don't see enough consistent offense out of him for next year. We're already challenged offensively this year and we are going to be losing our top two scorers. As a 6th man who can play a couple positions, Thatch can still get a lot of minutes as a 6th man, possible somewhere in the 20-22 mpg range. Then the following year, as a junior, he becomes a sure fire starter if his offensive game develops as I expect it will.

I'm not advocating we build a program around grad transfers, but considering we enter next season with a lack of proven scorers and will have a roster with NO seniors, this seems like an ideal spot to get at least one. I'm not sure why you think we'd just bring in an "average" grad transfer. I would contend Isabell has been above average and better than any freshman we likely would have signed last spring. And if you don't like Isabell, Justin Coleman who we came close to signing, has been excellent as Arizona's starting point guard. With Ford's ability to recruit, I want to see him hitting the grad transfer market to see what he might be able to come up with. 

[Clock_Tower]

4 hours ago, ACE said:

Clock,

Some good debate here...

1) Keep in mind, that when we signed Anthony he was basically projected as the 13th man on the roster. Ford was expecting to head into last season with a lot of depth and the plan for Anthony was to simply be a one-year insurance policy. It was before Welmer was lost for the year to injury and before S2... suddenly the depth Ford was expecting was depleted. By all accounts was a Very good teammate. Good practice player, played some defense when called upon.  Santos was not a grad transfer, but a traditional sit out a year transfer. I was not aware of any baggage in his past when we signed him. Obviously it turned out poorly, but that can happen with high school recruits as well.

2) I really like a lot of things out of Thatch, but just don't see enough consistent offense out of him for next year. We're already challenged offensively this year and we are going to be losing our top two scorers. As a 6th man who can play a couple positions, Thatch can still get a lot of minutes as a 6th man, possible somewhere in the 20-22 mpg range. Then the following year, as a junior, he becomes a sure fire starter if his offensive game develops as I expect it will.

I'm not advocating we build a program around grad transfers, but considering we enter next season with a lack of proven scorers and will have a roster with NO seniors, this seems like an ideal spot to get at least one. I'm not sure why you think we'd just bring in an "average" grad transfer. I would contend Isabell has been above average and better than any freshman we likely would have signed last spring. And if you don't like Isabell, Justin Coleman who we came close to signing, has been excellent as Arizona's starting point guard. With Ford's ability to recruit, I want to see him hitting the grad transfer market to see what he might be able to come up with. 

Ace.

Again, you, 3 Star and others make some really good counter points.  Not a clear cut, easy decision.   Pro's and con's for sure.  I guess, at the end of the day, I do not have as high of expectations as the quality of the Grad Transfer(s) we can land here as possibly you and others while at the same time, simply am more optimistic of our youth if given the chance. Why?  because Grad Transfers look for NCAA teams/playing time.  We are not certain to be a NCAA team this year (though we are close and hopefully will make it) and because playing time is not as wide open as last year.  The less attractive SLU looks, the lower quality GT we will attract.

Let me try to to explain my position better this way:  Wiley and Isabell have been really good for us -- and glad we had them.  At the risk of writing any negative 2 guys who I really like, am thankful for their contributions to date and who I am counting on going forward for the rest of this year, let me say that Wiley was a grad transfer, in large part, because he was injured quite often.  Talented but injured.  And that has turned out for us her at SLU.  Isabell has had 2 prior colleges?  3 in 4/5 years?  The positives are obvious and I can see him having issues at his prior places, especially a less mature Isabell.  Both have taken 1/2 a year to acclimate.  Question:  did playing Isabell (and at PG) hinder the development of Goodwin?  I am not sure.  But typical of most JUCO's/Grad Transfers, it takes time to acclimate.  Growing pains are sometimes worth it, but next year, both are gone so winning this Spring is all we have.  All things being equal, I would prefer to invest 1/2 the year (pre-Conference games) with Frosh and Sophs who also may take 1/2 a year (or more) to acclimate but then who will be here next year as well -- and hopefully 1 to 2 years after that.

Yes, we are losing 2 of our top scorers.  Big losses.  No way to sugarcoat this.  But instead of going with freshmen: Thatch, Jacobs, Hankton and Thor, along with Sophomores French and Goodwin, along with Seniors Bess and Foreman, we needed older guys: enter Isabell and Wiley. Great move by Coach Ford.  Next year, we won't be in quite the same need in that we will have Juniors in French and Goodwin, another Junior in Perkins, hopefully help at the center position with 2 bigs (maybe that's where the JUCO/GT can come from), and then the return of 3 guys (Thatch, Hankton and Jacobs) along with the new influx of 3 more (Yuri, Jimerson and Hargrove).  Our missed scoring (from the loss of Bess, Foreman, Isabell and Wiley) will need to come from these 6:  Thatch, Hankton, Jacobs, Juri, Jimerson and Hargrove.  Is that a tall order?  Yes and no.  The current Thatch is not the great scorer (but guys develop over time) and we will need improved perimeter shooting/play from Thatch. Jacobs need to play so we know what we have with him.  Hankton needs to step up and improve.  Same with Goodwin -- we will need a mid-range jumper from him and not rely on slashing.  Perkins will need to develop and replace some of what Bess brought to the table.  And finally, our Freshmen will need to acclimate sooner than later.  At the same time, these 6 will not be called upon to carry the team.  That will be required of Goodwin and French along with hopefully Perkins.  And if we get help with a big, then so much the better.  Guess I just would rather sink or swim with these 6 rather than sit them a year while we, instead, give playing time to a marginally better guy who will soon have his college career over.  

[billiken_roy]

while i would definitely prefer to get away from graduate transfers, i dont think this is the time to make that break.  first off i definitely dont want 6 freshmen on our roster especially with all sophs and juniors above them.  someone is bound to be out of sorts.   

second, i dont like the thought of possibly not having any scholarships for the next year.   

third, bigs never seem to mature as quickly and we are in a bad way for a big or two.  sure we can probably make do with perkins and hargrove playing out of position, but you can bet they wont be overly thrilled not being a wing when wing position is where both would likely play at the next level.  we would be much better off having another big that might be somewhere between the level of anthony or french.   

last, do you really think we would get a high quality recruit in the spring that is out of high school?   pickings will be slim.  

bite the bullet another year and get a couple of grad transfers.  

[3star_recruit]

Just an FYI: Myles Baker, a combo guard out of Whitney Young that we offered last year was also at the HoopHall Classic. Didn't put up big numbers in this particular game, but he's taken a major step forward as a scorer this season. He's a good perimeter shooter, can handle and he makes free throws. Takes pride in his defense. Nice job of scouting by our staff, identifying him last year when he was only a role player.

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

I just checked #14 Buffalo and majority of their roster is JUCO

[Clock_Tower]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

while i would definitely prefer to get away from graduate transfers, i dont think this is the time to make that break.  first off i definitely dont want 6 freshmen on our roster especially with all sophs and juniors above them.  someone is bound to be out of sorts.   

second, i dont like the thought of possibly not having any scholarships for the next year.   

third, bigs never seem to mature as quickly and we are in a bad way for a big or two.  sure we can probably make do with perkins and hargrove playing out of position, but you can bet they wont be overly thrilled not being a wing when wing position is where both would likely play at the next level.  we would be much better off having another big that might be somewhere between the level of anthony or french.   

last, do you really think we would get a high quality recruit in the spring that is out of high school?   pickings will be slim.  

bite the bullet another year and get a couple of grad transfers.  

3 Star’s original comment was assuming we offer 2 bigs, what about more?  W/o Welmer, we would be down to 9 with both returners and commited Frosh. That leaves 2 bigs and 2 more after that. My GT talk was directed to the 2 guys othenr than the 2 bigs. 2 GT bigs and 2 Frosh bigs sounds good to me. 

[slufanskip]

14 hours ago, billikenbill said:

Happy Days, Ralph Malph?

Happy Days is right, but I was remembering Richie at first but then I started thinking Potsy told Richie. So I thought I was sure but now I'm not lol

[Pistol]

14 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

Just an FYI: Myles Baker, a combo guard out of Whitney Young that we offered last year was also at the HoopHall Classic. Didn't put up big numbers in this particular game, but he's taken a major step forward as a scorer this season. He's a good perimeter shooter, can handle and he makes free throws. Takes pride in his defense. Nice job of scouting by our staff, identifying him last year when he was only a role player.

Not to mention, he's sharing a backcourt with the much more highly touted guard D.J. Steward, a 2020 player with a SLU offer. Baker has managed to be very effective both before and after Steward transferred to Whitney Young.

[3star_recruit]

New Oton Jankovic highlight video:

 

[Cowboy]

22 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

New Oton Jankovic highlight video:

 

-let's have him Be a Billiken! 24/7 has that we have not offered but are one of 7 interested

[Schasz]

Another recruit from Montverde Academy sounds good to me.

[Pistol]

I've liked the idea of Jankovic for a while but haven't seen much about him this season, so that's a nice highlight video to have. He's got a lot of Euro finesse to his game. Looks like a really smart player. Really mobile, runs and sees the floor well, and I like how confident he is taking guys off the dribble from the perimeter. He looks like he has a knack for drawing fouls and has a really mechanical, replicable FT style.

Most of his assists in that clip are him finding Jimerson on the perimeter for an open 3. It'd be nice to bring that chemistry here - I've seen Jankovic in GJ's social media posts, so they appear to be friends. It seems like a natural sales pitch to point out how well they play together, ease the transition by making them roommates, and sell them on elevating one another's game.

A stretch 4 is at the top of my wish list for these open scholarships heading into the spring. Jankovic looks like he could be a great fit. Easy thought experiment: swap in Jankovic for Foreman - does that feel like a downgrade? Sure doesn't feel like it to me. I love the versatility here.

Extend an offer already.

[Franchise_08]

Couldn’t take the Euro Club music in his video. Fitting, but annoying.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

How have they not offered Jankovic already?? Not sure Ford is  in the position to be super selective.

[MattyMo213]

1 hour ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

How have they not offered Jankovic already?? Not sure Ford is  in the position to be super selective.

I'd be surprised if they haven't offered, considering Jankovic's twitter has him in a Billikens uniform from his official visit. My guess is the recruiting website just doesn't have the offer out there. I hope that's the case

[HoosierPal]

2 hours ago, Pistol said:

 

A stretch 4 is at the top of my wish list for these open scholarships heading into the spring. Jankovic looks like he could be a great fit. Easy thought experiment: swap in Jankovic for Foreman - does that feel like a downgrade? Sure doesn't feel like it to me. I love the versatility here.

From his show a week ago, Coach hasn't totally ruled out Welmer for next season.  His actual words were "we'll talk about that after the season.'

He could be your stretch 4.  But having a freshman in the mix wouldn't hurt either.  Strictly from the video, Jankovic needs the muscle to bang inside as a power player.  And you never know from (any) videos if he can defend.

[TheChosenOne]

15 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

From his show a week ago, Coach hasn't totally ruled out Welmer for next season.  His actual words were "we'll talk about that after the season.'

He could be your stretch 4.

I am going to go ahead and say that Welmer will not be our stretch 4 next season at least we better not be expecting him to be a contributor. If he still wants to be at SLU and the coaching staff is fine having him tie up a scholarship for next season as opposed to medically retiring (and we will have no seniors, so I wouldn't be completely opposed to it on the surface if there is a chance of him being able to play) I would certainly hope we view anything we get from him as an added bonus as opposed to something we are counting on. At this point we can't expect anything from Welmer unfortunately.

[Pistol]

53 minutes ago, MattyMo213 said:

I'd be surprised if they haven't offered, considering Jankovic's twitter has him in a Billikens uniform from his official visit. My guess is the recruiting website just doesn't have the offer out there. I hope that's the case

This is possible. There are occasional offers that just don't get picked up anywhere publicly. It's rare, but it's possible. The reason I don't think this is the case is that OJ tweeted about his two official visits (SLU and GT) and his one offer (Siena). I don't think he'd keep an offer quiet.

As for Welmer, TCO nails it. I would love for him to be a healthy senior contributor and stretch 4. That would be a valuable presence on so many levels for next year's team. But there's no way we can count on that.

[Cowboy]

26 minutes ago, Pistol said:

This is possible. There are occasional offers that just don't get picked up anywhere publicly. It's rare, but it's possible. The reason I don't think this is the case is that OJ tweeted about his two official visits (SLU and GT) and his one offer (Siena). I don't think he'd keep an offer quiet.

As for Welmer, TCO nails it. I would love for him to be a healthy senior contributor and stretch 4. That would be a valuable presence on so many levels for next year's team. But there's no way we can count on that.

-which causes me to wonder what might be causing Jankovic to have just one offer

-totally in synch with you and TCO on Welmer and will add kid needs to consider his ability to be able to walk at 30,40,50,60 etc