SLU_Nick Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I agree. A lot of longtime posters (pre-Majerus) seemed to have disappeared this year. I cannot imagine it is due to the product on the floor because they have seen worse. I've been posting since 2003 and I haven't seen worse. Even the 2005 season at least showed some promise and players bought in to sodies plan. Morehead st was really the final cannon that sunk the ship. I couldn't even watch the 2nd half on TV...why on earth would I want to subject myself to getting to the arena/parking to watch that product. I genuinely don't know how someone can watch the games and continue pumping sunshine unless they have a personal relationship with a player or member of the coaching staff. It is objectively bad basketball. I hesitated posting something like this for a while bc I'd rather be silent on here than negative...however the notion that positive posters have been run off by the negative posters is absolutely absurd. I'd contend that the ones not posting are a lot like me. We see no hope, don't have the chafietz cash to do anything about it, so we just shut up,stay helpless and wait for the time when we can shake RC's hand again and thank him for caring about Billiken basketball (which I did in 2013). Less than 24 months from looking like we would be a consistent ncaa team, we need another miracle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 SLU Nick, life looks real dark when you are surrounded by darkness. A lost basketball game and the realization that our team will not go to NCAA this year are not reasons to lose all hope and start chasing miracles, unless this appears like your only hope of bringing a ray of light into your life. Sunshine comes from everywhere around you and also from inside. If this is the case you can freely pump sunshine anywhere you experience something unpleasant. Darkess also comes from everywhere around you, and also from inside. If this is the case every little bit of extra darkness coming into your life assumes gigantic proportions and takes away whatever little hope there is. I know this for a fact, I have been there and done that. Truthfully, sunshine is by far the better option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 The board is for discussion. If I and others see consistent terrible basketball without obvious signs of change, we are allowed to post about it. If others think that we're much improved this season, they're allowed to post about it. Then you can discuss/argue/whatever. If your feelings get hurt or you can't handle negativity, you're allowed to leave. But it's not my fault if you disagree with my stance and don't like negativity. And it's not your fault if I don't like your stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorB Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I happen to know a lot of those who have disappeared from the board. In fact I hardly post anymore and probably for the same reasons. It's the hateful, dismissive lunacy of the web that many of us older fans despise. I think relatively affluent, American males just have too much time on their hands, and/or are so obsessed with sports that it becomes a fetish, if not an idol. Fanduel and the financial rise of the NFL is the ultimate expression of too much free time and not enough productivity in other areas -- as often seen on this board. This anger/spite is fueled by the absolute lack of decorum of public spaces reaching epic proportions, modeled on the Bill O'Reilly school of bullying and making anyone of disagrees appear to be an idiot. Now we even have presidential frontrunners who have mastered that style -- and drawing 40% or so from supporters who actually think that is how leaders comport themselves in public. We live in a hateful, disrespectful, deeply depraved media/digital environment, to which we are addicted--and love pointing such hatefulness out in ISIS and others -- everyone but ourselves! (end of sermon) Some of you will dislike such cultural analysis on this board, as having little to do with basketball, but we are all swimming around in the same water, believe me. But as one fish said to the other: what's water? I agree. A lot of longtime posters (pre-Majerus) seemed to have disappeared this year. I cannot imagine it is due to the product on the floor because they have seen worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 The "positve" posters have been the ones on the offensive. Yet they also say they are contantly being attacked. They're like the people who think there is a "war on Christmas." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 If people have retreated from the board because of 'too much negativity,' I hope they're not reading anything else on the internet - anywhere, ever, under any circumstances. If they can't take what is actually relatively mild criticism of the program, its coaches, athletic director, players, and so forth, that's incredibly thin skinned. When things go south even temporarily at larger programs, it's insanity. This board is tame and civil by comparison, even at its most vicious. I'm not saying that makes those other people right (they're not), but it's the truth. We must have the softest, most timid, thin-skinned fan base in existence if criticism of the program's current state is too much to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I think it is the team that has put the fan base and this board to sleep. In that sense, the board is a good representation of the general attitude of the fan base. There really is a lack of interest in the program and it has nothing to do with the negativity of many on this message board, I think most fans are fairly negative about the program. At least a year ago we could discuss Tatum, now there is nothing. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorB Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Right -- "incredibly thin skinned" -- that sounds like what some of my friends say about Hannity and O'Reilly and even Trump. But that's why many folks prefer PBS Newshour instead of O'Reilly: people actually listen to each other, and seem respectful and in fact curious. And FYI: there are many, many other things to read, on the web and elsewhere, that are not filled with lackeys and shills trying to out shout one another down, or make trivial character attacks, or talk like a 15-year-old in detention.. I actually use clips from Fox to show students today how NOT to talk about issues, how NOT to have a conversation. This rabid culture of debasement is reflected here, sadly. But according to you, it's my problem: I'm incredibly thin skinned.... boo hoo. I'm just suggesting why a lot of older guys stay away. But I'd like to see some of young dudes on here say some of that trash talk to the face of the "incredibly thin skinned" players like Brett or Matt. You call some of that stuff "relatively mild criticism"?? Thanks for proving my point -- we've become used to it. Forums like this actually promote a dehumanizing discourse that is not socially acceptable, it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to figure that out! If people have retreated from the board because of 'too much negativity,' I hope they're not reading anything else on the internet - anywhere, ever, under any circumstances. If they can't take what is actually relatively mild criticism of the program, its coaches, athletic director, players, and so forth, that's incredibly thin skinned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 If people have retreated from the board because of 'too much negativity,' I hope they're not reading anything else on the internet - anywhere, ever, under any circumstances. If they can't take what is actually relatively mild criticism of the program, its coaches, athletic director, players, and so forth, that's incredibly thin skinned. When things go south even temporarily at larger programs, it's insanity. This board is tame and civil by comparison, even at its most vicious. I'm not saying that makes those other people right (they're not), but it's the truth. We must have the softest, most timid, thin-skinned fan base in existence if criticism of the program's current state is too much to handle. Those darn Millennials are just so mean. They are expecting too much from a school that recently displayed an ability to consistently win and has the best facilities in its conference! We should just all talk about how great it is that we even have a basketball team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 We must have the softest, most timid, thin-skinned fan base in existence if criticism of the program's current state is too much to handle. I've reported you to Steve. Billikens.com is my safe space. There is no place here for that kind of talk. In all seriousness, I wish the people who have stopped posting would start posting again. Differing perspectives, knowledge, experiences, personalities, etc. are especially valuable on message boards like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Right -- "incredibly thin skinned" -- that sounds like what some of my friends say about Hannity and O'Reilly and even Trump. But that's why many folks prefer PBS Newshour instead of O'Reilly: people actually listen to each other, and seem respectful and in fact curious. And FYI: there are many, many other things to read, on the web and elsewhere, that are not filled with lackeys and shills trying to out shout one another down, or make trivial character attacks, or talk like a 15-year-old in detention.. I actually use clips from Fox to show students today how NOT to talk about issues, how NOT to have a conversation. This rabid culture of debasement is reflected here, sadly. But according to you, it's my problem: I'm incredibly thin skinned.... boo hoo. I'm just suggesting why a lot of older guys stay away. But I'd like to see some of young dudes on here say some of that trash talk to the face of the "incredibly thin skinned" players like Brett or Matt. You call some of that stuff "relatively mild criticism"?? Thanks for proving my point -- we've become used to it. Forums like this actually promote a dehumanizing discourse that is not socially acceptable, it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to figure that out! Just a stop posting about politics, please. This is a basketball message board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 DocB - it is an interesting conversation for sure. It falls firmly into the "the next generation is terrible" argument that has been going on for the last 30 years. GenX was the ruination of the country, remember? This old vs young thing is funny though. Certain posters like to pop up randomly, preach to the young masses, and expect to be revered for such wisdom. When they get any sort of disagreement, they spin it as disrespect. A lot of dishing it out but not taking it. Also apparently not many people prefer PBS news hour because they've been dropping in viewers for the past decade at a huge rate. I can't stand OReilly either. Where does that put me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I happen to know a lot of those who have disappeared from the board. In fact I hardly post anymore and probably for the same reasons. It's the hateful, dismissive lunacy of the web that many of us older fans despise. I think relatively affluent, American males just have too much time on their hands, and/or are so obsessed with sports that it becomes a fetish, if not an idol. Fanduel and the financial rise of the NFL is the ultimate expression of too much free time and not enough productivity in other areas -- as often seen on this board. This anger/spite is fueled by the absolute lack of decorum of public spaces reaching epic proportions, modeled on the Bill O'Reilly school of bullying and making anyone of disagrees appear to be an idiot. Now we even have presidential frontrunners who have mastered that style -- and drawing 40% or so from supporters who actually think that is how leaders comport themselves in public. We live in a hateful, disrespectful, deeply depraved media/digital environment, to which we are addicted--and love pointing such hatefulness out in ISIS and others -- everyone but ourselves! (end of sermon) Some of you will dislike such cultural analysis on this board, as having little to do with basketball, but we are all swimming around in the same water, believe me. But as one fish said to the other: what's water? Thank goodness we have DocB. to always keep the conversation civil. http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26169&page=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Right -- "incredibly thin skinned" -- that sounds like what some of my friends say about Hannity and O'Reilly and even Trump. But that's why many folks prefer PBS Newshour instead of O'Reilly: people actually listen to each other, and seem respectful and in fact curious. And FYI: there are many, many other things to read, on the web and elsewhere, that are not filled with lackeys and shills trying to out shout one another down, or make trivial character attacks, or talk like a 15-year-old in detention.. I actually use clips from Fox to show students today how NOT to talk about issues, how NOT to have a conversation. This rabid culture of debasement is reflected here, sadly. But according to you, it's my problem: I'm incredibly thin skinned.... boo hoo. I'm just suggesting why a lot of older guys stay away. But I'd like to see some of young dudes on here say some of that trash talk to the face of the "incredibly thin skinned" players like Brett or Matt. You call some of that stuff "relatively mild criticism"?? Thanks for proving my point -- we've become used to it. Forums like this actually promote a dehumanizing discourse that is not socially acceptable, it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to figure that out! Lighten up, Francis. Here's the difference between the posters here and cable news blowhards: we're starting from a rational premise. This program isn't in very good shape right now because of a lower-than-acceptable level of talent and a coach who has shown no ability to coach them up, paired with minimal recruiting excitement on the horizon to have us excited about turning things around. We're not making stuff up and screaming like morons. It's not unreasonable to acknowledge what should be fairly obvious to most (certainly the empty seats are talking) and say that we want better. That position could not be more reasonable. When I use the word "relatively," it's not without purpose. Those who think the criticism here is too much should avoid other forms of social media, particularly as they relate to sports (see: Cardinals fans' tweets to Jason Heyward). (Also, please stay out of politics here. You know that isn't going anywhere productive.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 i'm negative camp. BELIEVE ME i want to be positive camp, and i almost always am. however, the players' lack of discipline, intensity and excitement (not to mention the whogivesashittedness of the fanbase) is a direct reflection on the coach(es). if crews plays out this contract, so help me... it will be a ten year setback. there are still STL players who remember the billies going to three straight NCAAs. pay a young badass coach who kills to recruit 1.5-2mil a year and just get it the fuok done. gotta spend money to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Lighten up, Francis. Sorry, you've just identified yourself as an incredibly old fart whose opinion no longer matters. You probably posted on this board or one of its predecessors before Twitter even existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Imagine that you have zero cookies and you split them evenly among zero friends. How many cookies does each person get? See? It doesn't make sense. And Cookie Monster is sad that there are no cookies, and you are sad that you have no friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Sorry, you've just identified yourself as an incredibly old fart whose opinion no longer matters. You probably posted on this board or one of its predecessors before Twitter even existed. I quoted a movie that was released two years before my own birth in order to make the "olds" around here feel comfortable. I hope it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 The negative camp is made up of fans who are devastated by what they see from the program. They've looked into their crystal ball and determined that there's absolutely no hope for any aspect of the program and there must be a change — particularly the athletics director and head coach — and the sooner, the better. Anything that delays a change (short of an unlikely post-season bid) is an awful thing. Good write up but I disagree. The 8 or 9 constantly negative posters (the "rotation"), deep inside, seem to like that things are not going well. It makes them special in their minds to be against Coach Crews; many were opposed to Crews day one and now pour it on every chance they get. It is the same with Matheny, (LaRussa before him), Hitchcock, and Fisher right now. It was hilarious to listen to the loser hoosiers call into Kevin Slaten years ago who emotionally all wanted LaRussa fired right now despite his success. It made the losers feel good. It is a phenomenon in sports, frustrated men who "never made the team", feel better when they can second guess a 30 year veteran coach who interned under Bobby Knight. They think we can get a young superstar coach in his stead. They do not understand that in 50 years, we have only had two superstar coaches, Spoon and Majerus, and there was a lot of timing and luck with both, especially Majerus. We had a 2 year gap in recruiting with Majerus's unfortunate health problems. Only the freshmen and sophs on this team are Crews's; 2 juniors and one sr, so for the second year in a row we are still a very young team with no uppreclassmen to lead. We have one game that stunk... Morehead... the rest were predictable and we are 5-3. We now have a rotation, Yarbrough seems to possibly be back on track, we still can get 16-17-18 wins. We shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I quoted a movie that was released two years before my own birth in order to make the "olds" around here feel comfortable. I hope it worked. Have you kissed the ring(s) today yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Good write up but I disagree. The 8 or 9 constantly negative posters (the "rotation"), deep inside, like that things are not going well. It makes them special in their minds to be against Coach Crews; many were opposed to Crews day one and now pour it on every chance they get. It is the same with Matheny, (LaRussa before him), Hitchcock, and Fisher right now. It was hilarious to listen to the loser hoosiers call into Kevin Slaten years ago who emotionally all wanted LaRussa fired right now despite his success. It made the losers feel good. It is a phenomenon in sports, frustrated men who "never made the team", feel better when they can second guess a 30 year veteran coach who interned under Bobby Knight. They think we can get a young superstar coach in his stead. They do not understand that in 50 years, we have only had two superstar coaches, Spoon and Majerus, and there was a lot of timing and luck with both, especially Majerus. The fact of the matter is the freshmen and sophs on this team are Crews's. 2 yrs and one sr, so for the second year in a row we are still a very young team with no uppreclassmen to lead. We have one game that stunk... Morehead... the rest were predictable and we are 5-3. We now have a rotation, Yarbrough seems to possibly be back on track, we still can get 16-17-18 wins. We shall see. If you enjoy watching SLU fight tooth and nail with the likes of St. Francis, I'll send you my remaining season tix. Send me your address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Good write up but I disagree. The 8 or 9 constantly negative posters (the "rotation"), deep inside, like that things are not going well. It makes them special in their minds to be against Coach Crews; many were opposed to Crews day one and now pour it on every chance they get. It is the same with Matheny, (LaRussa before him), Hitchcock, and Fisher right now. It was hilarious to listen to the loser hoosiers call into Kevin Slaten years ago who emotionally all wanted LaRussa fired right now despite his success. It made the losers feel good. It is a phenomenon in sports, frustrated men who "never made the team", feel better when they can second guess a 30 year veteran coach who interned under Bobby Knight. They think we can get a young superstar coach in his stead. They do not understand that in 50 years, we have only had two superstar coaches, Spoon and Majerus, and there was a lot of timing and luck with both, especially Majerus. The fact of the matter is the freshmen and sophs on this team are Crews's. 2 yrs and one sr, so for the second year in a row we are still a very young team with no uppreclassmen to lead. We have one game that stunk... Morehead... the rest were predictable and we are 5-3. We now have a rotation, Yarbrough seems to possibly be back on track, we still can get 16-17-18 wins. We shall see. If you enjoy watching SLU fight tooth and nail with the likes of St. Francis, I'll send you my remaining season tix. Send me your address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Minutes against Michigan St in Round of 32 in 2011-12 Seniors: 15.5% Juniors: 31% Sophomores: 53.5% Minutes against Morehead St Seniors: 17% Juniors: 25% Sophomores: 51.5% Freshmen: 6.5% Let's not act like there's some gigantic difference here. The excuse of being young is weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 So we just had someone compare Jim Crews to a Hall of Fame baseball manager. Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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