SLU v. Illinois State

[HoosierPal]

Disco Stu with the writeup: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/billiken-beat/slu-has-mixed-results-in-secret-scrimmage/article_f962da13-eddb-5fec-9f8b-c20b0e757417.html

I wonder who won the lunch break. We need to overanalyze it. What did they have to eat? Who ate the most? Did anyone drop their tray? (Could be a sign of bad hands.)

[TheChosenOne]

The one high (beating Indiana St) was pretty great right???

Haha, I had to throw that in there. The prior part of your post was: Still not gonna take a ton from it but encouraging nonetheless. So to be fair, your comments were fairly guarded and everyone was essentially responding to Billikeboy's report of the scrimmage even though most of us had already watched the team look far from impressive the week prior against Harris Stowe, but those posters were mocked in this thread. Once I get some more free time I will dig into the Harris Stowe game thread and then get into the early season game threads, to see who the true clown shows on this board are (be nice to know who I should completely ignore).

[kshoe]

Some additional comments that I found interesting following the scrimmage last year:

Dwayne's_World: I was actually more so taking a jab at some of the chicken littles on here who didn't think the team was going to be even remotely decent this year. I've been confident of a 20+ win season the whole time, and seeing the team in action last week made me even more confident. Hearing the news of beating Memphis in a scrimmage (a consensus pre season top 30 team right now) makes me even more confident. (this was in response to a sunshine pumping post from Clock_Tower who misinterpreted a prior post from Dwayne's_World)

Billikenboy: Team will be good folks

SLU_Nick: I am grasping for a 20 win season on the back of our soft schedule and then the committee giving us the benefit of the doubt bc we have been there for 3 straight years...

slufan13: It will be an up and down season but starting to think the highs will be pretty great.

Then Memphis lost their exhibition game to DII Christian Brothers and some decided to mock slu72 and his concerns (comical at this point):

kshoe: Ouch. Bet slu72 is going to revise his season prediction below 14 wins now.

Westy03: Slu72 revises his prediction to 1-29. Only win against Rockhurst

kshoe:Especially true if this d2 team out rebounded Memphis. I'm still trying to figure out we ever made 3 NCAA tournies after losing to Carleton!

slu72 wins for taking away the most obvious concern from the reports that would end up hurting us all season:

slu72: Every time I hear we sucked on the boards it brings back memories, painful, of last year's game against Mason. They manhandled us on the boards, and at times had 3-4 attempts at put backs. A lousy team took a ranked team to OT largely due to poor board work. It was also ugly to watch against HS, when a much shorter team pushed us around on the boards and denied us put backs. Remember RM's key to winning, defense and rebound! Start writing it on the whiteboard like CE did. Can't figure with our size that we should get crushed on the boards.

No, I'll go with my revised 18-12. But I won't be betting the farm on it. And I'm damned glad we don't have Carleton on our schedule.

So the sunshine pumpers had a lot of takeaways from a meaningless scrimmage a year ago and used it to call out those who had concerns about the talent level of the team. Again, this was a scrimmage that none of us witnessed, yet many of us witnessed the exhibition game against Harris Stowe and voiced obvious concerns which would hurt us the entire season.

I may dig into some of the threads from early last season, I am sure there are more similar posts like the one above from posters mocking the posters who are actually able to take things away from games beyond the box score.

Give me a f'ing break. We all understand that people that were optimistic last year were proven wrong. Likewise, people that were negative the three previous years were proven wrong. Remember all the hand wringing about Conklin's senior year team that lost to Carleton? (I'm specifically recalling your hero SLU72 in that post). Or the 7-9 A-10 prediction when we lost 3 of 4 that same season. Or all the predictions about how we were doomed to miss the NCAA tourney when Crews took over? Only to go on to win the A-10 regular season and conference championships.

Should we all just go back and dig into early season and summer threads from those seasons to see if there are any posters mocking people that suggested we might not be as bad as all the negative people say? Might we find a few "clownshows" there?

[TheChosenOne]

Give me a f'ing break. We all understand that people that were optimistic last year were proven wrong. Likewise, people that were negative the three previous years were proven wrong. Remember all the hand wringing about Conklin's senior year team that lost to Carleton? (I'm specifically recalling your hero SLU72 in that post). Or the 7-9 A-10 prediction when we lost 3 of 4 that same season. Or all the predictions about how we were doomed to miss the NCAA tourney when Crews took over? Only to go on to win the A-10 regular season and conference championships.

Should we all just go back and dig into early season and summer threads from those seasons to see if there are any posters mocking people that suggested we might not be as bad as all the negative people say?

Do what you want (you were the one being a cock bag after last year's scrimmage that none of us witnessed), I just found it rather amusing and it would be nice to know who to completely ignore. I don't know slu72, but he was the only one truly pumping the breaks (beyond me questioning those who felt like the HSU exhibition was a positive) that I could see. As a fact, I know I ended up being proven wrong by Conklin and I know I took longer to come around to that team (a lot of that was due to having friends who played for Majerus and the stories from that time), so I am not saying I am some sage and could easily have posts thrown back at me.

I don't take anything away from this scrimmage (wasn't there, so I have no idea what to take away and probably wouldn't take away much even if I were).

I also understand that there is a chance the pessimistic posters will be eating crow if this team exceeds expectations. I am not as overly down on this team as most, but I will admit being wrong if we win over 16 games.

Who had the most concerns about Crews when he took over? In theory, are they right?

[samslu]

FYI...a scrimmage is not a game. It is a time when coaching staffs get to implement their O and D versus live competition. Even if we lost by 2 or won by 2, the knowledge gained will help to make adjustments before we play real games that count. Sorry but the sky is not falling! Some encouraging results came out of this scrimmage.

I appreciated your report from last years scrimmage and would like to read your observations from the scrimmage yesterday. Its nice to get an opinion from someone that was there.

[kshoe]

Do what you want (you were the one being a cock bag after last year's scrimmage that none of us witnessed), I just found it rather amusing and it would be nice to know who to completely ignore. I don't know slu72, but he was the only one pumping the breaks beyond me that I could see. As a fact, I know I ended up being proven wrong by Conklin and I know I took longer to come around to that team (a lot of that was due to having friends who played for Majerus and the stories from that time), so I am not saying I am some sage and could easily have posts thrown back at me.

I also understand that there is a chance the pessimistic posters will be eating crow if this team exceeds expectations. I am not as overly down on this team as most, but I will admit being wrong if we win over 16 games.

Who had the most concerns about Crews when he took over? In theory, are they right?

You probably need to know the backstory before calling people "cock bags" or clowns. In the fall of 2014, SLU72 has previously predicted 14 wins, then somewhere along the way he appeared to revise it to 18 wins (after the good reports from Memphis perhaps) and then in post #50 he says he'll stick with his revised 18-12 prediction. All I was doing was teasing him that now that Memphis had lost to a D2 team our secret scrimmage result didn't look at good, hence the need to revise back down to 14 or below.

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25954&hl=scrimmage&page=3

p.s. I fully get that my prediction for the 2014-15 season was not a good one, but at this point who cares. Taj and others made sure to do a full review of everyone's prediction posts from last year. Really cool stuff.

[TheChosenOne]

p.s. I fully get that my prediction for the 2014-15 season was not a good one, but at this point who cares. Taj and others made sure to do a full review of everyone's prediction posts from last year. Really cool stuff.

I'm not going to go back and look at predictions, but it can help some of us who do not recognize the different handles get an idea which posters blow smoke consistently one way or the other. I guess I missed the tone of your exchange with slu72 from a year ago.

I know pretty much everyone was relatively high after the Indiana State win (even those who still had concerns), but this is my favorite post from a quick review of that GDT:

NextYearBill: Top 10 in two years with or without tatum

gobillsgo: Top 10 without, championship contender with

[hsmith19]

Top 10 in the A-10 by next year is still doable, even without Tatum.

[3star_recruit]

Thanks Stu, wherever you are, for providing some context. We all expected rebounding and ballhandling to continue to be an issue. The question is, can we improve from horrible in those areas to merely mediocre. Depends on how quickly Neufeld and Bishop can become comfortable at this level, IMO.

[Old guy]

Agree 3star.

[SluSignGuy]

Thanks Stu, wherever you are, for providing some context. We all expected rebounding and ballhandling to continue to be an issue. The question is, can we improve from horrible in those areas to merely mediocre. Depends on how quickly Neufeld and Bishop can become comfortable at this level, IMO.

++

[cheeseman]

As someone that knew we were playing Illinois St and is also aware of what our schedule was, I found stu's note to be interesting.

I agree, it was nice to find out we are the equivalent of a buy game for IL State. I get all the points that were made so I will back off. I did try to read the write up was unable to get to come up. I will try to track down a print version.

[RUBillsFan]

The one high (beating Indiana St) was pretty great right???

Taking VCU down to the wire was pretty exciting....that's about it as far as highlights go.

[VeniceMenace]

Taking VCU down to the wire was pretty exciting....that's about it as far as highlights go.

McBroom was the big star in that one ...

[majerus mojo]

Top 10 in the A-10 by next year is still doable, even without Tatum.

Bravo

[BillikensBlog]

Spoke to a couple of different people. Most echoed what Durando said, but some info nonetheless.

- Ball-handling was horrible. Illinois St pressured a lot, which the staff was actually happy about. One person said "teams will be nuts not to pressure us at least a little bit this season". There is a concern that SLU's best players can't handle the ball well enough and SLU's best ball handlers can't play the rest of the game well enough.

- SLU shot it well from 3. I'd expect SLU to not be shy about putting up 3's this season. Lots of players have the green light as of now. We'll see how that changes as the season progresses.

- As Durando said, Crawford and Ash stood out, but one source said, "I won't say they played great, but they were definitely our best players".

- While both teams played their full roster and experimented with lineups, I'm told that the actual scrimmage part was very game-like. "It's not what you'll see in February, but both teams played to win."

- It's hard to get a gauge on a starting lineup or even a rotation. The staff has been most impressed with Crawford and Bishop from what people have said. Bishop is still in a battle for a role in the backcourt, but I do think he's exceeded expectations thus far. This isn't really a unique thought, but I'd guess you'll still see a pretty big rotation early in the season, but I think there is pressure for the staff to eventually pick a set rotation and stick with it, with the last one or two spots fluctuating based on practices and matchups.

- The loss of Welmer is a big blow from what I understand. It's a big shot to the frontcourt depth and the staff really liked his ability to stretch the defense. Gillmann has regressed a bit as a shooter as he concentrated on other parts of his game (he's still a fine shooter) and Welmer was the superior athlete and rebounder to Gillmann.

[3star_recruit]

I was really hoping that Roby could help us out defensively by playing some point but doesn't look like ballhandling part is working out. Shucks.

[BigMouthBilliken]

Only a scrimmage but very discouraging to say the least. Regardless can't wait!

[DoctorB]

Sounds familiar to what I've heard over the transom:

Turnovers and sloppy handling = sound familiar?? Last year, in the pit of our collective experience, I think the most frustrating factors of all were the periods of rampant turnovers, some for now reason whatsoever. I would expect, with a year of experience, less sloppy ballhandling; but so far, it seems not to be improving much. And I'm nervous turning it over to a very physically small freshman and a walk-on, sorry.

Rebounding = again, if we do not produce some inside presence we are going to get eaten alive on the defensive boards by aggressive, athletic offensive putbacks. To put it another way: we are in BIG trouble rebounding, IF we have 2 guards leading us in rebounding stats.

Shooting 3's may be the silver lining to this team, especially since nowadays, in order to win in D1, it is often necessary to score over 50 points. per game, that is.

Welmer = very tough loss, which is somewhat surprising since he was not exactly a blue chip recruit deciding between SLU, Duke, KY, or even Dayton & VCU. Remind me again -- who were his other, top offers?? Don't get me wrong, I saw Elliot a bunch of times and really love his upside -- but if we are already turning to his injury as some sort of excuse ... well, that is a little concerning. Scratch that -- VERY concerning.

As someone pointed out in another thread = yes, I was bullish on the team going into last year. I was very, very wrong. So maybe all my dire concerns going into this year are also very, very wrong. Again -- I really hope so cuz I love going to the games. But I'm really tired of heading into halftime with more turnovers than field goals.

Spoke to a couple of different people.

[TheChosenOne]

As someone pointed out in another thread = yes, I was bullish on the team going into last year. I was very, very wrong. So maybe all my dire concerns going into this year are also very, very wrong. Again -- I really hope so cuz I love going to the games. But I'm really tired of heading into halftime with more turnovers than field goals.

I was just having fun with some posters (I started just curious to read the report on the scrimmage from last year). I don't think many of us could have really had a good idea how the team would be last season, too many unknowns. Unfortunately I feel the same way this season, but coming off of last season I am feeling way more pessimistic.

[majerus mojo]

Muller made this list

[samslu]

Spoke to a couple of different people. Most echoed what Durando said, but some info nonetheless.

- Ball-handling was horrible. Illinois St pressured a lot, which the staff was actually happy about. One person said "teams will be nuts not to pressure us at least a little bit this season". There is a concern that SLU's best players can't handle the ball well enough and SLU's best ball handlers can't play the rest of the game well enough.

- SLU shot it well from 3. I'd expect SLU to not be shy about putting up 3's this season. Lots of players have the green light as of now. We'll see how that changes as the season progresses.

- As Durando said, Crawford and Ash stood out, but one source said, "I won't say they played great, but they were definitely our best players".

Did anyone mention anything about our defense?

- While both teams played their full roster and experimented with lineups, I'm told that the actual scrimmage part was very game-like. "It's not what you'll see in February, but both teams played to win."

- It's hard to get a gauge on a starting lineup or even a rotation. The staff has been most impressed with Crawford and Bishop from what people have said. Bishop is still in a battle for a role in the backcourt, but I do think he's exceeded expectations thus far. This isn't really a unique thought, but I'd guess you'll still see a pretty big rotation early in the season, but I think there is pressure for the staff to eventually pick a set rotation and stick with it, with the last one or two spots fluctuating based on practices and matchups.

- The loss of Welmer is a big blow from what I understand. It's a big shot to the frontcourt depth and the staff really liked his ability to stretch the defense. Gillmann has regressed a bit as a shooter as he concentrated on other parts of his game (he's still a fine shooter) and Welmer was the superior athlete and rebounder to Gillmann.

[samslu]

Spoke to a couple of different people. Most echoed what Durando said, but some info nonetheless.

- Ball-handling was horrible. Illinois St pressured a lot, which the staff was actually happy about. One person said "teams will be nuts not to pressure us at least a little bit this season". There is a concern that SLU's best players can't handle the ball well enough and SLU's best ball handlers can't play the rest of the game well enough.

- SLU shot it well from 3. I'd expect SLU to not be shy about putting up 3's this season. Lots of players have the green light as of now. We'll see how that changes as the season progresses.

- As Durando said, Crawford and Ash stood out, but one source said, "I won't say they played great, but they were definitely

- While both teams played their full roster and experimented with lineups, I'm told that the actual scrimmage part was very game-like. "It's not what you'll see in February, but both teams played to win."

- It's hard to get a gauge on a starting lineup or even a rotation. The staff has been most impressed with Crawford and Bishop from what people have said. Bishop is still in a battle for a role in the backcourt, but I do think he's exceeded expectations thus far. This isn't really a unique thought, but I'd guess you'll still see a pretty big rotation early in the season, but I think there is pressure for the staff to eventually pick a set rotation and stick with it, with the last one or two spots fluctuating based on practices and matchups.

- The loss of Welmer is a big blow from what I understand. It's a big shot to the frontcourt depth and the staff really liked his ability to stretch the defense. Gillmann has regressed a bit as a shooter as he concentrated on other parts of his game (he's still a fine shooter) and Welmer was the superior athlete and rebounder to Gillmann.

[ACE]

Sounds familiar to what I've heard over the transom:

Turnovers and sloppy handling = sound familiar?? Last year, in the pit of our collective experience, I think the most frustrating factors of all were the periods of rampant turnovers, some for now reason whatsoever. I would expect, with a year of experience, less sloppy ballhandling; but so far, it seems not to be improving much. And I'm nervous turning it over to a very physically small freshman and a walk-on, sorry.

Rebounding = again, if we do not produce some inside presence we are going to get eaten alive on the defensive boards by aggressive, athletic offensive putbacks. To put it another way: we are in BIG trouble rebounding, IF we have 2 guards leading us in rebounding stats.

Shooting 3's may be the silver lining to this team, especially since nowadays, in order to win in D1, it is often necessary to score over 50 points. per game, that is.

Welmer = very tough loss, which is somewhat surprising since he was not exactly a blue chip recruit deciding between SLU, Duke, KY, or even Dayton & VCU. Remind me again -- who were his other, top offers?? Don't get me wrong, I saw Elliot a bunch of times and really love his upside -- but if we are already turning to his injury as some sort of excuse ... well, that is a little concerning. Scratch that -- VERY concerning.

As someone pointed out in another thread = yes, I was bullish on the team going into last year. I was very, very wrong. So maybe all my dire concerns going into this year are also very, very wrong. Again -- I really hope so cuz I love going to the games. But I'm really tired of heading into halftime with more turnovers than field goals.

Wow, is this the same Doc B. who flew off the handle and lectured me for being too negative (when I wasn't) last season? Can't wait until we actually start playing some games. Should be a wild ride on the board this season.

[slu72]

I was just having fun with some posters (I started just curious to read the report on the scrimmage from last year). I don't think many of us could have really had a good idea how the team would be last season, too many unknowns. Unfortunately I feel the same way this season, but coming off of last season I am feeling way more pessimistic.

I think there are too many knowns, Chosen. We still can't rebound. We still can't protect the ball. We still look discombobulated on offense (per Crews). This does not bode well for us going forward. One unknown is have they learned to play D? If they haven't, it's gonna be a long depressing season.