Pistol Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Knollmeyer was committed to Mizzou at one point early in his high school career. Didn't Luke Meyer chose SLU over Stanford or am I remembering that wrong? Meyer chose SLU over Stanford, yes. I was a big Meyer fan. I'd take him on any SLU roster, ever. Sorely underappreciated player; all-time non-stat sheet kind of guy. Offers are one way to gauge talent level, but very, very incomplete and can also be misleading. To say the current roster is more talented than the Soderberg/Romar teams because of BCS conference offers is totally bogus. Every single offer is logged somewhere now, whereas that wasn't the case 10 years ago. Most of our recruits have ended up with major-conference offers at one point or another; how "fresh" those were by the time of commitment is another matter altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think a lot of those offers could be debated as to how legitimate they were too (Roby was likely offered as part of a package and Miles' offer from LSU likely went away when Jalyn Patterson committed). I am sure Romar and Sodie had plenty of players who could have claimed similar offers at one point in time. Glaze did sign with UNLV, so that can't be debated. Lancona had offers from K-State and a solid Colorado State program. And Miles visited LSU AFTER Patterson committed and according to Rivals had an "offer" from LSU on 10/18/13. We know you don't like Crews, and I'm not convinced he is the answer, but you don't have to twist the truth to fit your agenda. Of course having solid offers doesn't guarantee success. Recruiting is an inexact science. And offers from BCS schools doesn't guarantee success either. Those schools have plenty of recruiting misses too. Just look at SPUMAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Don't get me wrong, I like some of our young guys and think we could build with them. But we need WAY more than what we have, and there are some players who just aren't at the level we need, and I don't think they'll get there. I can't believe some of you watched the on-court product last year and came away thinking, "We'll be fine." I don't know what you saw that I didn't. I only missed a couple games, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Knollmeyer was committed to Mizzou at one point early in his high school career. Didn't Luke Meyer chose SLU over Stanford or am I remembering that wrong? I recall Cokehead Quin made an offer. He must have made the offer in a haze after a night of partying, but then took it away after he came to his senses. I don't remember hearing any decent offers tied to the F-er from Minnesota. That looked questionable at the time of his commitment and played out that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 This also goes back to the definition of what is actually an offer or how valid any of those offers are. Some schools have 30 offers out for 4 spots. But that's a different discussion. If you're going to use other offers to gauge how good a current player is, your argument is going to be disproven just as quickly as you can prove it yourself. What I saw last year is a team full of role players. Roby is the most well-rounded. Yarbrough and Yacoubou have talent but talent alone doesn't win in college. You have to be able to be coached and your coach has to be able to coach. Crawford and Bartley may be focal points this year but they both seem like perfect guys to be role players on a good team. Not your better players on a bad team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Don't get me wrong, I like some of our young guys and think we could build with them. But we need WAY more than what we have, and there are some players who just aren't at the level we need, and I don't think they'll get there. I can't believe some of you watched the on-court product last year and came away thinking, "We'll be fine." I don't know what you saw that I didn't. I only missed a couple games, too. We will see Pistol either you are delusional with an axe to grind or not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 We will see Pistol either you are delusional with an axe to grind or not.... Far from delusional. Feel free to go back and watch last season's games. Look up stats, compare them to the rest of Division I. I have no axe to grind. I want SLU to be good. I consider it delusional to say this team has a solid level of talent and that the program will be just fine as is. That would be ignoring all evidence. I'd have to lie to myself to see it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 This also goes back to the definition of what is actually an offer or how valid any of those offers are. Some schools have 30 offers out for 4 spots. But that's a different discussion. If you're going to use other offers to gauge how good a current player is, your argument is going to be disproven just as quickly as you can prove it yourself. What I saw last year is a team full of role players. Roby is the most well-rounded. Yarbrough and Yacoubou have talent but talent alone doesn't win in college. You have to be able to be coached and your coach has to be able to coach. Crawford and Bartley may be focal points this year but they both seem like perfect guys to be role players on a good team. Not your better players on a bad team. I share your concern that we may have a collection of role players. We really need a couple of players to step up and separate from the pack. MY and DR are the two best candidates. JJ and DE were able to evolve from good role players early in their careers to core players you could build around. Do we have any players in last year's freshman class capable of making that transition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 We weren't only the youngest team in the conference, we were the only team to average under 60ppg. And the only team to get virtually nothing from the 5 spot. Raise your hand if you expect those last two trends to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 We weren't only the youngest team in the conference, we were the only team to average under 60ppg. And the only team to get virtually nothing from the 5 spot. Raise your hand if you expect those last two trends to continue. What makes you think that the 5 spot will be solved by two freshmen and improvement from guys who provided virtually nothing? That is a tall ask. All of this while implementing a new offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Crawford and Bartley may be focal points this year but they both seem like perfect guys to be role players on a good team. -I have this same concern, I hope it is unfounded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Glaze did sign with UNLV, so that can't be debated. Lancona had offers from K-State and a solid Colorado State program. And Miles visited LSU AFTER Patterson committed and according to Rivals had an "offer" from LSU on 10/18/13. We know you don't like Crews, and I'm not convinced he is the answer, but you don't have to twist the truth to fit your agenda. Of course having solid offers doesn't guarantee success. Recruiting is an inexact science. And offers from BCS schools doesn't guarantee success either. Those schools have plenty of recruiting misses too. Just look at SPUMAC. Agenda? I have no agenda. I don't like Crews as our coach, but I don't care enough to try to twist the truth. I was just pointing out that some of those BCS offers may not be real legit. I didn't mention Glaze and Lancona, but bringing them into the conversation basically says that the discussion is meaningless just like it was pointed out that a number of the clowns from Sodie's time also had BCS offers at one point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 What's ironic about this whole thing is that for those posters that have been around 10 years or longer, some of the first and loudest to jump off the Sodie bandwagon were Ace, Nark and myself during/after his third year which was a disaster. The rest of this board largely defended him until the NCAA dream bubble burst in year 5. Flash forward to now, and we've got the same 3 basically saying "let's see what happens this year before declaring anything a disaster" and you've got a large majority of the board that wants him fired as of yesterday. Recognizing that many current posters weren't around during the Sodie years, its hard for me to understand what has changed with some of the more long-termed posters to make them so quick to want to blow it all up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Last year was a dumpster fire. So bad that the general consensus is 15 wins this season will be an improvement/acceptable rate of progress.. Which, technically, it might be. 15 wins is nothing considering the amount of non-con gimmes and how down the A-10 is/was. Awfully low bar to set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 What's ironic about this whole thing is that for those posters that have been around 10 years or longer, some of the first and loudest to jump off the Sodie bandwagon were Ace, Nark and myself during/after his third year which was a disaster. The rest of this board largely defended him until the NCAA dream bubble burst in year 5. Flash forward to now, and we've got the same 3 basically saying "let's see what happens this year before declaring anything a disaster" and you've got a large majority of the board that wants him fired as of yesterday. Recognizing that many current posters weren't around during the Sodie years, its hard for me to understand what has changed with some of the more long-termed posters to make them so quick to want to blow it all up. I think most people are on board with giving Crews this season before declaring it a disaster. However, I think a lot of us are struggling to see things going very well this season. I am definitely in the wait and see camp, but really am not a fan of Crews (and his staff of misfits) and have a lot of concerns about the "talent" on this roster. We will see how it plays out, but I would be fine being wrong on this one. I would have loved to be wrong on the Tatum recruitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I was a Sodie detractor by year 3 as well. Right now our talent is somewhat less than those years, largely because we had Lisch, Tommy, Ian, and Bryant. We aren't seeing any of those types on our current roster. I give Crews a pass on the hand he was dealt last year because he was dealing with some of Rick's mistakes, McB, Manning, Glaze. The cupboard was pretty bare. What I don't get is that he couldn't build better off a COY year award, two dance appearances. What we saw last year was due to FR and, I gather, some dissension. But what FR, other than Roby, really looked like a solid A10 player? Too soon to tell, or they really aren't what we need to compete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 What's ironic about this whole thing is that for those posters that have been around 10 years or longer, some of the first and loudest to jump off the Sodie bandwagon were Ace, Nark and myself during/after his third year which was a disaster. The rest of this board largely defended him until the NCAA dream bubble burst in year 5. Flash forward to now, and we've got the same 3 basically saying "let's see what happens this year before declaring anything a disaster" and you've got a large majority of the board that wants him fired as of yesterday. Recognizing that many current posters weren't around during the Sodie years, its hard for me to understand what has changed with some of the more long-termed posters to make them so quick to want to blow it all up. I started lurking around here around the time I enrolled at SLU in 02, so I don't necessarily qualify as a long term poster. I'm not ready to blow it up, but the arrow for the program has gone from pointing way up to kinda pointing down. The only thing that kept it at a neutral for me over the offseason was the chance of landing Tatum and pairing him with some other 2016 recruit of note. That ship sailed and the only 2016 commit is a guy who gathered most of his interest from the Summit League. So because of that, I'm pointing the arrow a little downward. A 15 win season this year would continue the downward point for me. That puts you almost a full recruiting cycle away from NCAA success and back to the margins of college basketball. There has been too much money and effort invested into the program to build it up to let it crumble back to A10 mediocrity. I felt the same way about Soderberg. I was initially more excited by the hire because of his roots and mostly unknown record. I wasn't so much down on him for year 3 though as his 9 win season had so many random injuries and freak occurences that I couldn't blame Brad totally. Crews was a great choice to tkae the helm from Majerus,but maybe he wasn't a guy that was going to save the program going over the cliff when the 2014 class left. There is still hope but there has to be signs of improvement individually and from the team this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo027 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Last year was a dumpster fire. So bad that the general consensus is 15 wins this season will be an improvement/acceptable rate of progress.. Which, technically, it might be. 15 wins is nothing considering the amount of non-con gimmes and how down the A-10 is/was. Awfully low bar to set I'm one of the "blind optimists" but if we only win 4 more games this year, that isn't an acceptable rate of progress. That is, if we want the program to be in the NCAAs more often than not. We shouldn't be hoping to make it once every 4-5 years with a senior-laden team. The goal should be to win 17-18 games and give us some hope of an NCAA appearance in 16-17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 People should go back and read the board after and during the Jett/McCall/Evans frosh year. Especially regarding Jett who had more turnovers than assists scored in the mid 7's per game and wasn't a good shooter. Hell, Stat wise, McCall's best year was probably his frosh year. He didn't seem to really improve until his Sr year despite having been tutored by RM. If I remember correctly he actually shot the ball worse his Sr year. I don't know how many posts I read talking about how Rob Loe would never be any good inside ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 What's ironic about this whole thing is that for those posters that have been around 10 years or longer, some of the first and loudest to jump off the Sodie bandwagon were Ace, Nark and myself during/after his third year which was a disaster. The rest of this board largely defended him until the NCAA dream bubble burst in year 5. Flash forward to now, and we've got the same 3 basically saying "let's see what happens this year before declaring anything a disaster" and you've got a large majority of the board that wants him fired as of yesterday. Recognizing that many current posters weren't around during the Sodie years, its hard for me to understand what has changed with some of the more long-termed posters to make them so quick to want to blow it all up. Some of us have our reasons for not signing up for the board sooner. Doesn't mean we don't remember what was going on during the Romar-Soderberg years or earlier. Quite the contrary. Yeah, let's see what happens this year. I'm looking forward to it, even though I don't think it'll be pretty. But honestly, what do you think is going to happen? What kind of season would justify hanging on to Crews, and what kind of season would justify his firing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 People should go back and read the board after and during the Jett/McCall/Evans frosh year. Especially regarding Jett who had more turnovers than assists scored in the mid 7's per game and wasn't a good shooter. Hell, Stat wise, McCall's best year was probably his frosh year. He didn't seem to really improve until his Sr year despite having been tutored by RM. If I remember correctly he actually shot the ball worse his Sr year. I don't know how many posts I read talking about how Rob Loe would never be any good inside ... The major difference is that RM's track record showed that he was probably the greatest player developer who ever lived and Crews has never shown any sign that he is even average in that department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Some of us have our reasons for not signing up for the board sooner. Doesn't mean we don't remember what was going on during the Romar-Soderberg years or earlier. Quite the contrary. Yeah, let's see what happens this year. I'm looking forward to it, even though I don't think it'll be pretty. But honestly, what do you think is going to happen? What kind of season would justify hanging on to Crews, and what kind of season would justify his firing? I think if he goes under .500 again, then he should probably be let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think we are going to see great improvement. 20+ wins. 500 gets him another year. Scandal and a losing record gets him fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 What makes you think that the 5 spot will be solved by two freshmen and improvement from guys who provided virtually nothing? That is a tall ask. All of this while implementing a new offense. Our best 5 last year was a slow 6'10 210lb kid who occasionally hit threes and couldn't jump. Our problems at the 5 won't be solved but they will certainly be mitigated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Our best 5 last year was a 6'10 210lb kid who occasionally hit threes and couldn't jump. Our problems at the 5 won't be solved but they will certainly be mitigated. Mitigated with depth, but far from over. I don't think Neufeld is as game-ready as has been said on here. I think he'll be a good four-year big but any production from him this year will be a bonus. Manning-to-Neufeld might be a neutral change in the short term. This also assumes a conventional 1-2-3-4-5 lineup; Neufeld and Gillmann are the only listed centers on the team, but I'd expect to see a lot of different lineups, especially early in the season. I'm not as concerned with production from a particular position as overall production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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