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Las Vegas newspaper article on Liddell


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http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/200...s/24306197.html

I'm telling you all RIGHT NOW, as tightly controlled as it is at UNLV and the involvement of our compliance department in recruiting, I can all but guarantee you that Lewis was making phone calls to schools that had recruited Liddell.

You guys go ahead an bash away at UNLV, the rogue university, if it makes you feel better. However, realize, we were never forced to fire a coach because of improprieties like you have had to do (early '80s...right?). In fact, Tarkanian won a lawsuit for $2.5 million against the NCAA for harrassment. Fact is, UNLV wasn't the rogue school like you think, just over-scrutinized because Tarkanian criticized the NCAA for years.

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Before Tarkanian was at UNLV he was at Long Beach State (I believe) and when he left there, they went on NCAA probation. After UNLV he went to Fresno State and when he left there, they went on NCAA probation. We know the mess in which UNLV was when he left and you think the NCAA harassed him?

You deserve credit for knowing that when Ron Ecker left St. Louis U. they were placed on probation because he held illegal practices but the difference is that St. Louis U. did not tolerate that type of behavior and Ecker was dismissed. UNLV not only tolerated Tarkanian's behavior but from the comments on the Rebel message board, the supporters encouraged it.

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.. I believe the culprit in this whole thing is this Rick Lewis scum. And frankly I don't care if he reads this .... he is scum. If I ever found out that some interloping, intermediary was representing my son or daughter without my knowledge and consent, there would be hell to pay. Mt belief is that good old Rick was looking out for THE RICK and saw this kid as a way to do that. I didn't jump on TL for this ... I wanted to hear from the parents and it appears that they were in the dark as well.

I think this scum contacted UNLV and maybe a few others with false representation on TL's behalf. TL's a youngster as others have pointed out. I don't blame him for seeing stars. But I would love to see THE RICK try and attend anything St. Louis U.related for some time.

I wish TL well. I hope he comes to SLU and I think it would be great (and I admit there is some selfishness in that assessment) but given this scandal, I'm sure there are more to come. Same might be true of our other big local recruit for next year. It would not surprise me. Even if any of these guys do eventually come, its a crap shoot still as to just how it will all work out.

What I still don't get is this ... Lon Kruger FAILED and FAILED miserably in the NBA. Why does anyone think he knows squat at this point is beyond me.

Directly .. I dont' blame UNLV. Matter of fact ... best of luck as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to play you guys. The problem here is the whole AAU/street agent crap that has infiltrated the high school age group. If you haven't read it .. read the post with SL's columnist Jeff Gordon below. Its says things rather succinctly.

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These guys at Vegas don't read too well. Here is a quote from the article:

"We did not encourage or push Mr. Liddell or his intermediaries to recant or disavow his letter-of-intent commitment to attend Saint Louis," Tolliver said. "UNLV has not made any type of offer of written financial aid and UNLV has not persuaded Mr. Liddell to come to UNLV."

Tolliver said any contact was initiated by Liddell or Rick Lewis, a St. Louis-area AAU coach who has been advising Liddell. Under NCAA rules, an athlete or an intermediary can talk to anyone they want.

--------

Here is the language of the 9th paragraph of the standard text of a national LOI:

9. Recruiting Ban After Signing.

I understand all participating conferences and institutions are obligated to respect my signing and shall cease to recruit me upon my signing this NLI. I shall notify any recruiter who contacts me that I have signed. Once I enroll in the institution with which I signed, the provisions of NCAA bylaw 13.1.1.3 shall govern.

http://www.national-letter.org/guidelines/nli_text.php

All institutions who participate in the National LOI program administered by the Collegiate Commissioners Association (CCA) agree not to tamper with players once they sign a LOI. All D-1 schools participate in this program. My only hesitation is not knowing who exactly enforces this agreement (however, I assume it is the NCAA).

Reading between the lines, I have a pretty good idea this is what happened: (a) Lewis contacted UNLV telling them that Tommie was available, (B) UNLV knew about the Liddell LOI to SLU, © UNLV communicated to Tommie that they had a scholarship available for him but that no documentation of any type on this offer could be exchanged until after his LOI to SLU dissolved (in cases outside of the signing period, schools often take an application for financial aid), (d) Tommie accepted the verbal offer. UNLV's position will be that there was no violation as the deal was not to be consummated until after the SLU LOI dissolved. What kind of compliance officer is this guy from UNLV anyway? Every institution agrees not to tamper with the players signed by another institution. The language in the LOI is very clear on this.

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Bill Bayno was coach for 5 1/2 years at UNLV. Under his watch, his friends were caught paying people (a whole host of little things were found as well). He was asked to resigned, he did not and he was fired. He is the reason UNLV is currently on probation. I believe he is currently an assistant coach in the cleverly named Superior Basketball League (what a great career moving cheating at UNLV was!).

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I couldn't agree more.

I still don't get this "street agent" thing. Does having an "intermediary" create an agency relationship? I do still hold UNLV somewhat culpable in this. UNLV had communications with an "intermediary," despite the fact that Tommie is still obligated under of LOI. Now, had UNLV said we'd love to talk to Tommie, but he is currently under a LOI, so we will wait until that LOI is no longer valid-- well this would be the high road. Instead, this fine institution of higher education chose to deal with an individual who had no express or apparent authority to make any dealings for Tommie. Instead of the high road, UNLV chose to enter the realm of scum. UNLV's perception will be enhanced when it's actions of higher standards match its statements.

As for this Lewis guy, I wouldn't let this numbskull anywhere near my kid. If he's a coach, my kid wouldn't play on his team.

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What is the role of the "street agent"? Are these guys AAU coaches that will profit if a kid goes to a school that they are familiar with?? I'm unsure. We have AAU coaches here in Baltimore, some have power and connections, but not as much power apparently as some out there. Does the AAU not step in when coaches are playing out of their position like that? Does Tommie have a long history with this coach Rick Lewis?

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believe what you will, but to get the accurate side of the story read Shark Attack, the biography of the Tark that details the whole NCAA mess. If you took the time to read this book, I'd think you'd at least get the other side of the story. Tark's biggest mistake was for criticizing the NCAA when he was at Long Beach for coming after the small schools (because another small school in California--St. Mary's had just got busted by the NCAA) and leaving the big schools alone. UCLA from the early 60's well int the '70s was paying players more than the NBA was, and Tark was fed up that the small rules violators were being investigated but the KNOWN large violators were being left alone.

Tark wrote an article about the whole thing and from that point on he was on the radar....in fact the NCAA president was quoted as saying after that article that he just found another "small" school to put on probation. The man was harrassed! If you don't think small violations occure at EVERY school, your head is in the SAND. Tark was busted tiny things....never did he get accused of paying players or fixing grades at UNLV, that stuff happens at Notre Dame and Minnesota, not at UNLV.

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your right, I left out the obvious, but I was referring mainly to Tark. Our image is because of his tenure at UNLV, and it wasn't deserved IMO. He wasn't forced to quite by the NCAA, and neither was Bayno for that matter.

Bayno was a little loose but in the end all that happened was a Dentist gave Lamar Odom $400 and UNLV kicked Odom out of school....the big mistake was that the school didn't report it to the NCAA....which was ultra-dumb. There was a violation of an assistant coach giving a matress to player (heaven forbid) and helping move a player from his home to the campus apartment.

Fact is, if you look at any school there are violations. I have a cousin in the NBA. When he was in college I could give you a laundry list of NCAA violations that he did. Most of the stuff was just minor stuff, and some of it probably considered major.... He went to a school that was NEVER investigated by the NCAA...yet violations run rampant. Its just inevitable. You might construe that as an excuse, its not, its just reality.

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I wanted so bad to stay away ... but I am weak.

So you are saying that Tark really did nothing wrong ... the NCAA just had it out for him because he was outspoken and during Bayno's time a dentist gave Odom $400. and an asst gave a player a mattress. That's it nothing else?

Who is your cousin in the NBA?

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

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rebby said, "violations run rampant. Its just inevitable."

isnt amazing the "everyone does it" excuse that dirty program fans all seem to use to justify their team's illgotten actions.

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you're just ignorant. The extensiveness of the NCAA regs breeds noncompliance. I can't help you if you're that ignorant.

BTW, I never said that Tark didn't do ANYTHING wrong, but most of what he was "busted" for was all pretty weak and stuff that happens everywhere. The simple fact is that when the NCAA investigates they find. Ask Utah. Majerus has a new found respect for the NCAA nazis.....I think it pushed him out of coaching.

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you seem to me to be trying to convince us that tark was closer to being a choir boy that the problem to college basketball that he obviously was. if in fact the only school that took hit(s) during his career was unlv you might have something to consider, but the fact that pre-unlv (long beach) and post-unlv (fresno) tark was also in trouble and both schools ended up on probation proves that tark was more the scoundrel than what you are selling to us. get a clue, the billiken program doesnt play that way. the fans of the billikens dont even think about playing that way and you can take your little "everyone does it" attitude to someone else that agrees with that slimy way of thinking.

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rebby said, "most of what he was "busted" for was all pretty weak and stuff that happens everywhere."

it does not happen everywhere. it happens far too often. i would guess 25% of the schools will walk over the line occasionally, but i dont believe that it happens everywhere.

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just do a bit of research. Thats all that I ask. Just read Shark Attack....I think you can pick up a used copy of it at Amazon for like 2 bucks.

The funny thing is, you have NO IDEA the good Tark did for the rest college bball. He took a bullet for every coach out there. In the end he was defamed, but nearly every college coach out there worships the guy...that speaks volumes.

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this must be because YOU DO NOT KNOW! I do, I've seen it first hand. Oh, and try reading the regs sometimes and then we'll talk.

You trying to tell me that a player at SLU has never had a drink bought for him at a bar by a fan? That would be a violation....kinda like the Fresno State players getting a free meal by a FSU booster at a fast food chinese place.

This stuff just happens, I guarantee you. Majerus was busted for taking his players out for meals. He was in trouble for inviting them over to watch videos and eat pizza and birthday cake. Are you telling me this sort of thing doesn't happen everywhere? Utah hadn't been busted before, but the ski coach told the NCAA that Majerus was doing things he really wasn't doing....but the NCAA showed up and found something else....free milk and cookies at the coaches house.

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it speaks volumes that every college coach thinks tark blazed a trail for cheating? we should glorify tark for that? you have come to the wrong place to sell this story. you wont find many backers in billiken country that "approve" of walking in the gray areas of the ncaa rule book. and i have a lot better things to do in my spare time that to read al copone...i mean... tark's biography.

here's a clue, the best thing that happened to unlv in the recent past was hiring spoon. he tried to do things the right way and clear your name. now personally, if you were a regular reader here, you would know that spoon isnt my favorite coach of all time, but at least i have the knowledge and respect about spoon to know that he didnt cheat and he knew the game. no arguments he didnt like to recruit. hell the man was old. he didnt want to chase those kids anymore. but at least had you all kept him around instead of chasing him out of town, he could have changed the persona the world has about the unlv basketball program eventually. instead, you drive the man out of town, bring in kruger who get's caught cheating within the first few months on the job. real good. and now you want the world and in particular the school unlv tried to cheat, slu, to thank you or applaud unlv? go back to your glittertown.

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there are intentional and unintentional incidents. i truly believe that most of the college programs do not intentionally break the rules and when they unintentionally do it, it doesnt happen again. but the likes of mi$$ouri and unlv, seem to thrive on continuously breaking the rules. that is the point. now if you want anyone here to state slu breaks rules, you wont have much luck.

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It wasn't the cheating (as you suggest) it was the unfair manner in which the NCAA didn't give due process and unfairly targeted schools. Tark sued their arses and they had to admit in a federal court that their processes are not fair. They've treaded more lightly....this only helps schools like SLU, and I know most coaches that are privy to the inside info backed Tark and consider him one of the good guys.

You see, you get too caught up in "violations". The fact is, and yes these are FACTS, Tark didn't get caught doing things that were way out there. If that were the fact UNLV would have had its banner taken down and the championship given to Duke. Michigan recently had its final four taken away because of REAL improprieties.

I'm not saying UNLV didn't make mistakes, and Tark is lumped into that. The fact is that he harrassed from his days at Long Beach....and it all stemmed from his criticism of their processes. This is all WELL KNOWN, and if you don't know this, read up my friend.

If UNLV is a rogue institution, then why have NONE of 4 final fours been taken away??????

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you see how ignorant you are!!!! Comparing what UNLV did to what Missouri did is laughable. In fact, i'd contend what UNLV was in trouble for pales in comparison to what SLU did in the early '80s. In your case, your coach knowingly and on purpose broke rules to get an advantage. In UNLV's case we did have boosters doing shady stuff, but in ALL CASES, UNLV took care of the situation and none of this was our staff's doing....just over zealous boosters.

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