This year vs last--which is the better team?

[bsheldon]

Man this is fun. Winning is so much better than losing. Why don't they just do this every year?

This is a thought that has been rattling around in my head for a bit. Obviously we are ranked higher and have done a better job so far in conference this season, but purely from a talent level, which team had more? Our only new player that gets time this season is McBroom. While he is a really solid player, I don't think too many coaches would choose him over Mitchell. Then there is the loss of Ellis. Which I' m sure you how often a skill set like that comes along. Not to mention CR (all time games played leader BTW) who was a real solid big man defender and shot blocker.

Looking at our run of wins this season, especially 2 of the last 3 games, we are 2 shots away from maybe not even being ranked. We were setting at 19 when we were taken to OT at home by GM. They had the last shot in regulation to win it. Had that fallen, there is no way we would be discussing the possibility of being ranked in the top 10. That would have dropped us a bit. Yesterday's win was impressive by JJ no doubt, but we probably shouldn't have been in that position. Sure, if either one of Loe's or McCall's open 3's fall there in the last minute or so, we would have coasted in. A win is a win, especially on the road in conference and in a tough oversized high school gym and I understand that.

No doubt our ranking is deserved this season. But is our talent level better than last year?

[NextYearBill]

22-2 means 22-2. it doesn't mean 17-2 with 5 toss ups. This team wins games, period

[bsheldon]

22-2 means 22-2. it doesn't mean 17-2 with 5 toss ups. This team wins games, period

I fully agree. 22-2 is awesome and winning is winning. But that really wasn't the point of the post. The last 4-5 seasons have been a ton of fun with the program growing and growing and winning more and more. I've loved following the last few main recruiting classes as their careers have blossomed. Last year was truly a special season. This season is setting up to hopefully be even more so. Again it is just a thought I've had in my head for a while that I thought might make for a good discussion.

[slu72]

I'd give the nod to last year. That said, JJ has certainly been a more than adequate replacement for KM, and RL's recent improvement makes up for losing CE. But not having CE off the bench complementing RL is a minus. Mc3s been the real surprise, since he's been a more consistent 3 shooter than CE. Just different positions. I think with CE and CR we were better able to handle the athletic big PFs that are giving us so much trouble this year. Would be nice to see GG, TL, and RA be able to fill those roles as DEs too short for a lot of them. Speaking of which, I think DEs better at the 3, however, that kind of falls on GG since he lost his starting role.

[Fansince59]

I was at the Wisconsin and Wichita State games--we could easily have won both. We appeared to be better than Wisconsin but blew a bunch of free throws ( JJ was 0-4 FT and several of those were the front end of 1-1s) so we could be 24-0. We led WSU by 10 at one point. But I must agree we have been fortunate in the GM and LaSalle games, and a few others could gone bad.

We have to remember that SLU creamed Dayton and Richmond, St. Joe and Indiana State, all good teams. When we are at our best, like at the Richmond and St. Joe games, we can beat anyone, including a lot of schools in the Top Ten. But we can also go 4-3 in our last seven games and still it's been a great regular season. Most must agree the toughest games are at VCU, Richmond and UMass. I think each game is a toss-up, especially with the target now on our backs.

Even if we lose all three of the tough road games, I think we will blast VCU, Duquesne and GW at home, GM away. Dayton is the last home game--we should win that one, too, the blue-out game. Honestly, I would be ok ( not thrilled) with a 27-5 record going into the A-10 tournament. We very well could be 29-3 too. We can lose close ones as well as win them.

[willie]

I'd give the nod to last year. That said, JJ has certainly been a more than adequate replacement for KM, and RL's recent improvement makes up for losing CE. But not having CE off the bench complementing RL is a minus. Mc3s been the real surprise, since he's been a more consistent 3 shooter than CE. Just different positions. I think with CE and CR we were better able to handle the athletic big PFs that are giving us so much trouble this year. Would be nice to see GG, TL, and RA be able to fill those roles as DEs too short for a lot of them. Speaking of which, I think DEs better at the 3, however, that kind of falls on GG since he lost his starting role.

I agree with your comments about DE. Having to play the 4 is asking a lot for an undersized player. It is really hurting his rebounding. He's having to screen off the other teams power forward instead of just going to the ball as a 3. At this stage of the season we're not going to change,nor should we. As an aside Tanner is not ready to play defense at this level. Let's hope we can get more from Grandy.

[WestCoastBilliken]

This years best vs last years best, I would take this years best. When we are on we are really good.

Side thought: Why do we not play manning at the 5, loe at 4, Evans at the 3 more??

[Taj79]

I'm with larry72 on this one. We've added Mc3 and lost Ellis, Mitchell and Remekun. Manning has tried to supplant Remekun and is relatively close. While Mc3 has the better percentages (I think) the fear of another bomber at the guard in Mitchell, and the added problem a non-traditional four Ellis brought to the table is tough to gauge. Plus Kwamain's defense and leadership were some other intangibles. And the spacing was pretty amazing too.

The difference is Jett and Loe has upped his game. It's only a slight edge and in the grand scheme of things, it's all immaterial given the winning ways.

[DeSmetBilliken]

Right now I would give the nod to last year's team, but that's in part due to what I saw from them in February and March. This year's team still has 7 A-10 games, plus the A-10 tournament and the NCAAs to equal or surpass last year.

The one obvious thing is that this year's team wins games.

[slu72]

I'm with larry72 on this one. We've added Mc3 and lost Ellis, Mitchell and Remekun. Manning has tried to supplant Remekun and is relatively close. While Mc3 has the better percentages (I think) the fear of another bomber at the guard in Mitchell, and the added problem a non-traditional four Ellis brought to the table is tough to gauge. Plus Kwamain's defense and leadership were some other intangibles. And the spacing was pretty amazing too.

The difference is Jett and Loe has upped his game. It's only a slight edge and in the grand scheme of things, it's all immaterial given the winning ways.

If GG had been able to maintain the level of play he showed in the first two games, albeit against some weaklings, I'd rate the two teams even. His seeming lack of development has hurt us in that JB now mans the 3 and DE the 4. JB does a good job on D and will provide the occasional burst of 3s, but DE is having difficulty hanging w/ the big 4s If we had someone who could man the 4, I'd venture to say we'd be undefeated. If RM had redshirted CE that half season or CR the whole season, we'd be celebrating something really special. Not that I'm complaining at all, but the last 3 games have shown our major weakness right now is lack of a bigger competent 4. Recall, CE did a really good job on D and rebounding at the 4 last year, as did CR.

[slu72]

This years best vs last years best, I would take this years best. When we are on we are really good.

Side thought: Why do we not play manning at the 5, loe at 4, Evans at the 3 more??

Fouls. Both struggle guarding the big athletic types.

[ARon]

For what it is worth, after the Richmond game Earl Austin said it was the first time this year the team has looks as good as last year's squad.

[moytoy12]

I believe the ceiling for this year's team is higher and we've only seen a few complete games from 'em. That being said, last year's team was consistently better. I give a slight nod to last year's team being better.

[bills10]

At this point, this years team has a much better chance to win a national championship than last years team... I'm saying that facetiously, but I honestly think the teams will be compared by how they fare in the tournament. I thought last year's run had a premature ending, and have great confidence in this year's team's ability to close out games. The stats show our defense is improved. I'm hoping it translates into a much deeper run, and if that transpires, will pick this group every time.

[slu72]

I was watching a little of the MSU UW game, a guy like Payne of MSU would cause us a lot of Pain. Here's the difference; CE and CR became very smart defenders in their time here, no knock on DE, and last year we could have at least slowed him down, we're struggling with that right now. Time for GG and the FR bigs to step it up. On the other hand, last year's team lost some stupid games, this year we refuse to lose. Gotta love that about them.

[davidnark]

I was watching a little of the MSU UW game, a guy like Payne of MSU would cause us a lot of Pain. Here's the difference; CE and CR became very smart defenders in their time here, no knock on DE, and last year we could have at least slowed him down, we're struggling with that right now. Time for GG and the FR bigs to step it up. On the other hand, last year's team lost some stupid games, this year we refuse to lose. Gotta love that about them.

72, I think our defense in the post has been an area of strength. Almost all of our struggles in that area have occurred when Loe and Manning got into foul trouble, leaving us with smaller, less experienced players to provide help D. We saw that in the first half yesterday.

[Quality Is Job 1]

We have to remember that SLU creamed Dayton and Richmond, St. Joe and Indiana State, all good teams. When we are at our best, like at the Richmond and St. Joe games, we can beat anyone, including a lot of schools in the Top Ten. But we can also go 4-3 in our last seven games and still it's been a great regular season. Most must agree the toughest games are at VCU, Richmond and UMass. I think each game is a toss-up, especially with the target now on our backs.

Even if we lose all three of the tough road games, I think we will blast VCU, Duquesne and GW at home, GM away. Dayton is the last home game--we should win that one, too, the blue-out game. Honestly, I would be ok ( not thrilled) with a 27-5 record going into the A-10 tournament. We very well could be 29-3 too. We can lose close ones as well as win them.

You've miscalculated a bit. SLU doesn't play Richmond away this year. The three remaining road games are VCU, George Mason, and UMass. The home games are VCU, Duquesne, George Washington, and Dayton.

At this point, this years team has a much better chance to win a national championship than last years team... I'm saying that facetiously, but I honestly think the teams will be compared by how they fare in the tournament. I thought last year's run had a premature ending, and have great confidence in this year's team's ability to close out games. The stats show our defense is improved. I'm hoping it translates into a much deeper run, and if that transpires, will pick this group every time.

Tournament performance will play a significant role in the respective legacies of each squad. If anything, the 2011-12 squad had the most talent, considering that it had six -- maybe seven -- eventual 1,000 point scorers on the squad in Conklin, Mitchell, Ellis, Evans, McCall, Jett (and possibly Loe). This year's squad has three -- maybe four -- in DE, MM, JJ (and possibly RL), albeit we don't really know if some of the underclassmen will eventually get there. But the experience factor is also considerable. Evans, McCall, Jett, and Loe were only sophomores two years ago and were quite ready to step up the way they've done this year. So, I've written a lot just to say that I think this year's squad may prove to be the best of the three, especially if they advance further in the NCAA Tournament.

[Aquinas]

It remains to b seen which team is the best. At this moment the polls think we r better but the computer ratings liked last years team better at this point in time. Looking at the positions, 5, lowe is better this yr. +1, 4, with evans forced to play undersized -1, 3, Bennet -2, 1&2, jett, mcall n mcbroom +1. IT IS Debatable whether this years 3 guard combo is better than last yrs, but jett has become si dominant, and mcbroom such a nice shooter n continuing to improve. Since it is aparent, our 3, 4 positions r not likely to change or improve much. The question is how much better our gaurds n lowe can become, or how hot they get. Mccall has not played his best O. Somtimes teams n players find something special. Lowe could get hotter, evans could start hitting his outside shots, mcall could find his old stroke. The toughest tests r in front of us. What is really impressive is this teams pois.... they expect to win every game and never get rattled.

[Zink]

Should we include the team of '11-'12 in this conversation?

I think this team needs to become more consistent offensively in order to compare. We were in the top 50 in offensive efficiency each of those years (I think) and have been worse than 150th almost all season. That said, this team has been better at winning games thus far, which is the most important stat.

[Bills By 40]

If GG had been able to maintain the level of play he showed in the first two games, albeit against some weaklings, I'd rate the two teams even. His seeming lack of development has hurt us in that JB now mans the 3 and DE the 4. JB does a good job on D and will provide the occasional burst of 3s, but DE is having difficulty hanging w/ the big 4s If we had someone who could man the 4, I'd venture to say we'd be undefeated. If RM had redshirted CE that half season or CR the whole season, we'd be celebrating something really special. Not that I'm complaining at all, but the last 3 games have shown our major weakness right now is lack of a bigger competent 4. Recall, CE did a really good job on D and rebounding at the 4 last year, as did CR.

We just need somebody that can flop like CE. With all due respect, he'd be an all-star in the Serie A.

Fouls. Both struggle guarding the big athletic types.

This years best vs last years best, I would take this years best. When we are on we are really good.

Side thought: Why do we not play manning at the 5, loe at 4, Evans at the 3 more??

YES. I've thought the same thing. Against certain teams, this provides a huge advantage with pulling RL to the perimeter and letting DE and JM work in the post on offense, and provides the obvious defensive advantages. Fouls would be the only real issue but I think with more experience with this tactic would help them grow out of that.

If GG had been able to maintain the level of play he showed in the first two games, albeit against some weaklings, I'd rate the two teams even. His seeming lack of development has hurt us in that JB now mans the 3 and DE the 4. JB does a good job on D and will provide the occasional burst of 3s, but DE is having difficulty hanging w/ the big 4s If we had someone who could man the 4, I'd venture to say we'd be undefeated. If RM had redshirted CE that half season or CR the whole season, we'd be celebrating something really special. Not that I'm complaining at all, but the last 3 games have shown our major weakness right now is lack of a bigger competent 4. Recall, CE did a really good job on D and rebounding at the 4 last year, as did CR.

If only we had somebody on this year's team that was as good at flopping as CE. With all due respect, and no offense intended, CE would be an all-star in the Serie A.

I believe the ceiling for this year's team is higher and we've only seen a few complete games from 'em. That being said, last year's team was consistently better. I give a slight nod to last year's team being better.

This year's team might not have as many impressive wins, and without as many GP that's tough to compare, but we DEFINITELY have the potential to go down as a much better squad. We're 22-2 for f's sake. Roll Bills.

[Littlebill]

Roll Bills.

So you're just making up sayings now? This is not a thing.

[Billiken75]

JJ played the A-10 tourney and NCAA tourney with a bad back. The extra experience of the seniors makes this squad adept at winning the close game. Jordair has the confidence, skill, and body to take over games. He is experienced and game smart to pass if they try to overplay him.

We are in the midst of Billiken heaven. Enjoy the ride and thanks to the players for all their time, effort, and energy to make this happen.

Crews doesn't strive for attention. He deflects this team's success to the players and even plays an "aw shucks" kind of attitude. About 4 years ago I was listening to a Majerus interview on the radio and the interviewer asked Majerus who was the best X/O coach in college hoops. Without hesitation, Majerus said Jim Crews. I didn't know who he was and had to google him. Two years later he becomes an assistant in a time of need. So remember, each opponent is has to deal with the best game tactician. In the past, we would have lost these close games. We have an edge with our seniors and our coaching staff.

[majerus mojo]

So you're just making up sayings now? This is not a thing.

Roll Bills is definitely in the rotation. We gon' keep eating.

[slu72]

72, I think our defense in the post has been an area of strength. Almost all of our struggles in that area have occurred when Loe and Manning got into foul trouble, leaving us with smaller, less experienced players to provide help D. We saw that in the first half yesterday.

Agree to a degree, David. But in the last 3 games we've been manhandled on the inside by PFs. GM game we couldn't buy a defensive rebound. We were damn lucky to have won that game because of all the 2nd shots and new clocks we gave to GM. Then Roberts from SJs goes off on us and the same with LaSalles PF. I'm just saying we have to find an answer for these types. Last year we had it with CE and CR. GG should have been part of the answer, but so far he hasn't been.