Observations after returning from Dayton

[GOSLU68]

Did not get to see game; busy burying my dog at his favorite place to hunt rabbits in the country.

Who guarded Devin Oliver?

[almaman]

Speaking of Dakish and Saunders, I thought they were terrible. I never heard them talk about substitutions. They talked about unrelated stuff for too much of the time. At least Dakish showed his Hoosier colors talking about Coach Crews as I expected.

By the way I recently read BK & Bob Hammel's book "Knight: My Story. BK said he wanted JC to replace him at IU, but his departure did not leave him the opportunity to have any input. He thought JC was doing a great job at Evansville and could recruit the state as well as IL and OH very well. We are seeing that with Billiken signees.

good to know. is it a good book? Further fuel to the wtf wait to make JC permanent coach last year. We so sucked out with him. Reminds me of Dick Vermeil (sic) and his time at the Rams. Older wiser set in life nothing to prove just do the job in a fairly pampered situation. We're in a pretty good stretch of years here. Only wish we had a tougher schedule.

[sonoma bob]

It was an OK read, not as good as Feinsteins "Season on the Brink" Knight tells his side of the IU story, sounded very biased. He goes on and on about his fishing and hunting buddies, who cares? It ends after his first year at TT. I'm old enough to remember the whole story all the way back to his playing days, so that part was interesting.

Good this he did not name JC as his successor, we would not have him today.

[Taj79]

@AlumniFan --- ricky is right when he interprets what I said as "traditionally." Dayton loves their press clippings and who's to blame them for that. We would/do too. Their fans --- at least the ones I sat by Saturday --- were quite knowledgable, pleasant and complimentary of the Bills. The most obnoxious fans I've ever had to endure is a tie between Cincinnati fans and Xavier fans. Cincinnati fans are vicious and only cut you some slack once they have stomped all over you. Xavier fans are all preppy and condescending and you are to be tolerated as long as you understand and accept that Xavier is superior. Of course, that's just one man's opionion.

I know Daytons' number were "up there" going into Saturday's game. Once again, they don't really play anybody. Yes, they got to play some tough guys out in Maui and beat Gonzaga and Cal while choking against Baylor but those are not traditional road games in my opinion. Those are the usual tournament stuff and while there is nothing wrong with them, they are "artificial." Outside of them, Dayton played IPFW, both St. Francis', Georgia Tech, Delaware State, Illinois State, Central Michigan, Iona, USC, Murray State, Winthrop and Ole Miss. Only Tech, illinois State and Ole Miss were "true" road games. Neither Tech nor Ole Miss are the class of the ACC/SEC and Illinois State, who got decimated by VCU in Richmond, slapped the then-ranked Flyers in Normal. So 12 of their 15 games were in less-than-completely-hostile environments. And their home games included no one so all I'm saying is stats can get inflated.

Without revealing too, too much, the Dayton team doctor revealed some of YouDee's scouting stuff, to include they print out a life-size image of the opposing players, usually seven or eight deep, and post them in the locker room with likes, dislikes, tendencies and all that. I understand it's a pretty sizable bill at Kinkos. Anyway, despite all that and a full week to get ready, not a single Flyer could stop their Saint Louis counterpart, in his estimation. We really b*tch-slapped them good.

[Bizziken]

@AlumniFan --- ricky is right when he interprets what I said as "traditionally." Dayton loves their press clippings and who's to blame them for that. We would/do too. Their fans --- at least the ones I sat by Saturday --- were quite knowledgable, pleasant and complimentary of the Bills. The most obnoxious fans I've ever had to endure is a tie between Cincinnati fans and Xavier fans. Cincinnati fans are vicious and only cut you some slack once they have stomped all over you. Xavier fans are all preppy and condescending and you are to be tolerated as long as you understand and accept that Xavier is superior. Of course, that's just one man's opionion.

I know Daytons' number were "up there" going into Saturday's game. Once again, they don't really play anybody. Yes, they got to play some tough guys out in Maui and beat Gonzaga and Cal while choking against Baylor but those are not traditional road games in my opinion. Those are the usual tournament stuff and while there is nothing wrong with them, they are "artificial." Outside of them, Dayton played IPFW, both St. Francis', Georgia Tech, Delaware State, Illinois State, Central Michigan, Iona, USC, Murray State, Winthrop and Ole Miss. Only Tech, illinois State and Ole Miss were "true" road games. Neither Tech nor Ole Miss are the class of the ACC/SEC and Illinois State, who got decimated by VCU in Richmond, slapped the then-ranked Flyers in Normal. So 12 of their 15 games were in less-than-completely-hostile environments. And their home games included no one so all I'm saying is stats can get inflated.

100% right about X fans...I will never understand that...and that's why they are among my most hated teams

Dayton's current SOS is 36. Ours is 113. They are 3-3 vs the RPI Top 100. We are 2-2. We have played exactly 6 teams with winning records. They've played 13. Their road games against Georgia Tech, Ole Miss, and Illinois State were at least as good as (and probably better than) our Non-Con road games. Baylor is a Top 10 team, and they lost by 1. I don't really care about Dayton, but at least give them credit for a decent schedule...and a schedule that is far and away better than ours. We would kill for 5 Power Conference teams on our slate. Their Non-Con resume was better than ours, too.

[kmbilliken]

100% right about X fans...I will never understand that...and that's why they are among my most hated teams

Dayton's current SOS is 36. Ours is 113. They are 3-3 vs the RPI Top 100. We are 2-2. We have played exactly 6 teams with winning records. They've played 13. Their road games against Georgia Tech, Ole Miss, and Illinois State were at least as good as (and probably better than) our Non-Con road games. Baylor is a Top 10 team, and they lost by 1. I don't really care about Dayton, but at least give them credit for a decent schedule...and a schedule that is far and away better than ours. We would kill for 5 Power Conference teams on our slate. Their Non-Con resume was better than ours, too.

Why can they get better teams to schedule them and we can't? Is it we choose not to?

[kshoe]

Why can they get better teams to schedule them and we can't? Is it we choose not to?

Getting into the Maui tourney accounts for 3 of those good games vs. only one for us (Wisconsin).

The Maui tourney picks its teams multiple years in advance and at the time Dayton was coming off the nit championship plus their fans travel a lot better than ours, hence the invite.

[Box and Won]

Did Reggie get any minutes? I don't recall seeing him out there.

[jbizzle09]

Did Reggie get any minutes? I don't recall seeing him out there.

No. He never got in the game.

[slu72]

Which was kind of surprising seeing as how GG was taking some dumb arse shots.

[Taj79]

Dayton can't get anybody to come to Dayton. Yes, a few years ago, Pitt came to town as a #5 team and got hammered. Dixon never went back. When Dayton does play a Kentucky (and they did in this 8 game run against the SEC), it's at the Fifth/Third Arena in Cincy, not at YouDee Arena. Yes, they played Geogia Tech thi syear, but who coaches GaTech? I am waiting to see if Ole Miss returns them a favor next year and comes to the Triple D.

kshoe is absolutely correct in his explanation on Maui. W/o Maui, and lesser ACC/SEC they have played IPFW, St. Francis (NY), St. Francis (PA), Delaware State, Illinois State, Central Michigan, Iona, USC, Murray State, and Winthrop. Great. The problem is -- and I said this before --- we could be them too. Who in their right mind is going to come to our place and play us this same way if we are middling good? Their big plus up was maui. Ours was a one-fer with Wisconsin. We might have got a bump with West Virginia but not much. I don't know what ther payout is for these teams going to Dayton, but they average 11K to 12K per game every year. Even if Brad Beal is a fourht year senior and Billy Donovan wants to bring him home, guarantee it'll be at Savvis and not Chaifetz.

If we ever get two good teams to Chaifetz OOC every year, I'd be stunned.

[brianstl]

Dayton can't get anybody to come to Dayton. Yes, a few years ago, Pitt came to town as a #5 team and got hammered. Dixon never went back. When Dayton does play a Kentucky (and they did in this 8 game run against the SEC), it's at the Fifth/Third Arena in Cincy, not at YouDee Arena. Yes, they played Geogia Tech thi syear, but who coaches GaTech? I am waiting to see if Ole Miss returns them a favor next year and comes to the Triple D.

kshoe is absolutely correct in his explanation on Maui. W/o Maui, and lesser ACC/SEC they have played IPFW, St. Francis (NY), St. Francis (PA), Delaware State, Illinois State, Central Michigan, Iona, USC, Murray State, and Winthrop. Great. The problem is -- and I said this before --- we could be them too. Who in their right mind is going to come to our place and play us this same way if we are middling good? Their big plus up was maui. Ours was a one-fer with Wisconsin. We might have got a bump with West Virginia but not much. I don't know what ther payout is for these teams going to Dayton, but they average 11K to 12K per game every year. Even if Brad Beal is a fourht year senior and Billy Donovan wants to bring him home, guarantee it'll be at Savvis and not Chaifetz.

If we ever get two good teams to Chaifetz OOC every year, I'd be stunned.

There is no pay out for a home and home series.

[Billikenswin]

Dayton can't get anybody to come to Dayton. Yes, a few years ago, Pitt came to town as a #5 team and got hammered. Dixon never went back. When Dayton does play a Kentucky (and they did in this 8 game run against the SEC), it's at the Fifth/Third Arena in Cincy, not at YouDee Arena. Yes, they played Geogia Tech thi syear, but who coaches GaTech? I am waiting to see if Ole Miss returns them a favor next year and comes to the Triple D.

kshoe is absolutely correct in his explanation on Maui. W/o Maui, and lesser ACC/SEC they have played IPFW, St. Francis (NY), St. Francis (PA), Delaware State, Illinois State, Central Michigan, Iona, USC, Murray State, and Winthrop. Great. The problem is -- and I said this before --- we could be them too. Who in their right mind is going to come to our place and play us this same way if we are middling good? Their big plus up was maui. Ours was a one-fer with Wisconsin. We might have got a bump with West Virginia but not much. I don't know what ther payout is for these teams going to Dayton, but they average 11K to 12K per game every year. Even if Brad Beal is a fourht year senior and Billy Donovan wants to bring him home, guarantee it'll be at Savvis and not Chaifetz.

If we ever get two good teams to Chaifetz OOC every year, I'd be stunned.

I have spoken a lot with the folks in our athletic dept about scheduling and it is exactly as Taj describes it- none of the big name teams want to risk losing a game to a team like us on the road. They will be happy to have us come to their place--ie Duke--but it is real difficult--almost impossible-- to get the big boys to come to Chaifetz. We surely have the reputation now as being exremety tough to play against and we are proving it over and over again. Lets hope our AD can use his connections and work some miracles but I know that a lot of schools will never agree to come here. Remember when we beat Boston College here a few years ago when we were not that good--they were ready to do a multi year deal and the coach pulled the plug right after we beat them. Calapari told me in person he would never in a million years agree to come here because we are so fundamentally solid that it might make his team look bad. We just have to pray for some teams to want to give their team a tough test and we are good enough that it will give them a bump in their RPI for opponents.

[slufan13]

We don't need to play the huge teams though. Play more teams between 20 and 50 in the rankings and it'll be great for our SOS and those teams are also big enough to attract lots of fans. I know not all of those teams will come to Chaifetz because they think they're better than they actually are, but you can get some of those types of teams every year. There are always upper middle power conference teams looking to beef up their non conference schedule. Also look at some of the better teams from bad conferences and play them. They end up in the top 40 or 50 every year and the thing that hurts them is that they rip through their conference schedule but they don't play anyone out of conference.

[Taj79]

@13 --- while the theory is sound, you never really know who the Top 20 - 50 teams are in any given season because that gets compiled based on the season in progress. Scheduling is done at least a year or two in advance. You lock in and you get what you get. I remember when Georgia Tech was actually pretty good. Today, they are the 10th best team in the 16 team ACC. For us, Vandy was always a tough progrm and unbeatable at Memorial Gym. Not so much this year -- 13th out of 14 SEC teams. Who are these "upper middle power conference teams" you mention? If they are the dregs of the power conferences, they are the dregs. I see no real schedule/RPI benefits in playing Nebraska, or Penn State, or Virginia Tech, or TCU. And we are not going to give a home-and-homes to mid-power teams because they tend to fall as quickly as they rise. Is Murray State a good schedule? Why the last two years or so were good, they came into Dayton in December at 5 and 6. So you never know.

I like th eideaof playing the locals ...... SIUe, SIUC, Mizzou, Illinois, Mo State, Bradley, In State. Then pump in one or two mid- to high-level teams. But again, they won't come to us. I'd also like to see a recurring scheudlke with Creighton, Marquette, Xavier, Georgetown, dePaul, etc. to replace the Duquesnes, La Salles, Fordhams and so on but you know what that means.

[Bizziken]

I like the ideaof playing the locals ...... SIUe, SIUC, Mizzou, Illinois, Mo State, Bradley, In State. Then pump in one or two mid- to high-level teams. But again, they won't come to us. I'd also like to see a recurring schedule with Creighton, Marquette, Xavier, Georgetown, DePaul, etc. to replace the Duquesnes, La Salles, Fordhams and so on but you know what that means.

It's also better when the locals aren't $hitty...While I do revel in SIUC being terrible, it's really better for our numbers if they are decent and counts as a quality win. It's also a shame that Mo St. is a bunch of doorknob humping jacka$$es bc they seem to always have a respectable RPI.

[Box and Won]

I like th eideaof playing the locals ...... SIUe, SIUC, Mizzou, Illinois, Mo State, Bradley, In State. Then pump in one or two mid- to high-level teams. But again, they won't come to us. I'd also like to see a recurring scheudlke with Creighton, Marquette, Xavier, Georgetown, dePaul, etc. to replace the Duquesnes, La Salles, Fordhams and so on but you know what that means.

Not Missourah State. Screw them.

[RiseAndGrind]

Not Missourah State. Screw them.

Agreed.

REMEMBER THE MAJ!!!!!

[Deutschkind]

We don't need to play the huge teams though. Play more teams between 20 and 50 in the rankings and it'll be great for our SOS and those teams are also big enough to attract lots of fans. I know not all of those teams will come to Chaifetz because they think they're better than they actually are, but you can get some of those types of teams every year. There are always upper middle power conference teams looking to beef up their non conference schedule. Also look at some of the better teams from bad conferences and play them. They end up in the top 40 or 50 every year and the thing that hurts them is that they rip through their conference schedule but they don't play anyone out of conference.

I'd love to see Mountain West teams again like the series with New Mexico. upper level Valley schools, Horizon teams like V***po that have been to the dance recently, and the top A10 teams after we leave them next year. We don't need to bring in top schools. There's a lot to gain just from dropping as many games as possible in the 200+ group.